The worst workmanship I've yet encountered: Carneil Pens

[Flounder]

Before coming to a conclusion about this matter for yourself, please read Mr. Crooks response, which I've included in the last post here.

Regards,

Dannzeman
FPG Admin

I've seen poor service before, but never publicised it until today's travesty - the following is that far beyond the beyonds.

Today I received my rolled silver Parker 51 cap, which I sent Peter Crook of Carneil Pens on the 19th of June. I had asked for the loose, scratched-to-hades clutch basket to be swapped out for one I had polished the worst of the scratches out of, and for the fingers of said basket to be adjusted to match the tension of a supplied gold filled cap. See here: or here: Peter Crook.pdf

1. The clutch has not been swapped. The scratched basket is still in the cap, and the polished basket has not been installed.

2. As with most early 51 caps, this one has an obvious tab for the clip to slot onto, preventing rotation. This has been ignored/overlooked, and the clip jammed on askew. A fresh smile mars the silver body of the cap. i am *stunned* that an engineer would fail to locate a tab in a slot, much less install a clip without holding it in place whilst screwing in the brass spigot.

3. My original translucent cap jewel has been taken, and an inferior opaque jewel put in in its place. I am in *no doubt* of this whatsoever.

4. Roughly three quarters of the cap's lower circumference has a new and *very ugly* mark.

5. My cheque has been cashed, in spite of the above.

My jaw is pretty much on the floor. This is the first time I have used Peter Crook's services, and that the above applies to the work of a qualified engineer beggars belief. I am stunned that a professional would be happy to represent his work in such a fashion, without a word of explanation, much less apology.

It's quite understandable that the reader may look askance at my having posted here in the first instance, rather that attempt to resolve this back channel (as I did in the single other instance I was on the receiving end of poor service, from a different Scottish restorer). I can only say that the above surpasses the limit of what I consider competent or even honest. With nothing further to go on, I simply don't believe that giving Mr. Crook another chance would not result in further damage to my cap. Personally speaking, I have essentially worthless caps I treat with more care than Mr Crook has shown this paying customer's P51 cap.

I would appreciate an immediate refund, less Peter Crook's postage costs. I *insist* that my original translucent cap jewel is returned immediately. I will in turn send Mr. Crook's opaque jewel, upon receipt of the former.

I am happy to forward original resolution photographs and all correspondence to the forum moderators regarding this matter.


1. The scratched up basket, still in the cap after my cheque was cashed:


and


my polished basket, unused (and returned rubbing against the gold filled cap, rather than safely secured on the P51's back end as I sent, I am sorry to say)

and


2. Clip incorrectly aligned (and probably stressing the plastic inner cap, as it's jammed in at an angle):

and


fresh smile on the cap body:


and



3. My original, translucent jewel, photographed here before I bought the correct gold clip for this rolled silver P51 cap:

or check my blog post of 26/03/12:
http://flounders-mindthots.blogspot....t-all-off.html

The jewel after return from Peter Crook of Carneil Pens:


4. WTF is this?

and

and

and

[Tony Rex]

Now, we know emotions run high when someone is left with a sour experience. Because of that we will be watching each and every post that is made in this forum. Keep your posts civil and subjective. We only want the facts. We don't care what you think of the person who did the work. His personality is not being reviewed, his work is.

From this sub forum rules. And read the third paragraph as well. http://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread....ewfull=1#post4

[oldstoat]

To get back to the original subject of the the thread, I once bought a "fully serviced" Parker Slimfold from this supplier. It wouldn't fill- because as I discovered, the sac was the wrong size and hadn't been shellacked in. It was repaired , but grudgingly.

Not reviewing the person but the goods.

[Flounder]

Deb, I'm sorry if i didn't make this clear above: it is my intention to resolve this publicly, for the reasons given above. I notified Peter Crook roughly 20 minutes after posting here that I had done so (how else would I hope for my jewel's return?) and that this forum offers the right of reply. I also PMed Dan to make him aware of this thread, as it is my first in this subforum and I wanted to make sure any breach of the rules could be addressed.

This cap should never have left the bench in such a state. If Mr. Crook is happy to chance sending his work out to the world like this, with not a word of explanation and having taken payment, let him account for it out in the open - as he has neglected to do privately.

In answer to Jon's question, I chose Carneil Pens because they are UK based, they are recommended by Onoto as having "previously carried out work to a high standard in the UK: " (and Onoto pens are not the simplest), and Peter Crook is a qualified engineer (Eur.Ing.)

Again - I would like a refund less Peter Crook's postage costs, and I *insist* that my original, translucent jewel is returned immediately.

[Deb]

I appreciate the points that you make, Flounder, and I'm aware of the problem that you raise, Laura N. A fair and successful feedback forum is something I have yet to see (at least where complaints are concerned) and I applaud FPG for taking things a step in the right direction. I note that apart from this post there are two others dealing with poor service. In neither case has there been a response. So far, so bad.

However, I hope the repairer responds in this case and a mutually satisfactory solution can be found.

[Annie]

Deb, I'm sorry if i didn't make this clear above: it is my intention to resolve this publicly, for the reasons given above. I notified Peter Crook roughly 20 minutes after posting here that I had done so (how else would I hope for my jewel's return?) and that this forum offers the right of reply. I also PMed Dan to make him aware of this thread, as it is my first in this subforum and I wanted to make sure any breach of the rules could be addressed.

This cap should never have left the bench in such a state. If Mr. Crook is happy to chance sending his work out to the world like this, with not a word of explanation and having taken payment, let him account for it out in the open - as he has neglected to do privately.

In answer to Jon's question, I chose Carneil Pens because they are UK based, they are recommended by Onoto as having "previously carried out work to a high standard in the UK: " (and Onoto pens are not the simplest), and Peter Crook is a qualified engineer (Eur.Ing.)

Again - I would like a refund less Peter Crook's postage costs, and I *insist* that my original, translucent jewel is returned immediately.

If I took my black Yaris to the garage for repair or service and was palmed off with a.n.other black Yaris, I'd whip out my phone and call plod because this is fraud, no matter what side of the pond you are on. If this repair person agreed to do the work and you sent him the pen and the work was not done, that is breach of contract and since this repair person is in the UK, he is beholding to Trading Standards. To further ding your cap is vandalism and should be reported as such.

This repairer should be beating down your door with a full refund for failing to provide the service you paid for, sending back your property (i.e. your jewel, because let's be clear, it is yours) and compensating your for further dinging your cap.

Dealing with Trading Standards and small claims courts is not difficult stuff, even if you are on the other side of the pond and if you need help with that, do please let me know. My own experience with a different apparently well respected pen person lead to a claim being filed and his cheque to compensate.

I have no problem at all with someone who, for whatever reason, cannot do the stated work so long as they don't expect to be paid for it. This repair person has the right to reply and put things right or to provide evidence to prove that what you are saying is bullshit. I'll watch and wait. In the meantime, I'm really sorry for you and for your pen.

[Flounder]

Here is the a (cropped, you will understand) screenshot from my bank showing the cheque was cashed on the 28th of June.


Here is the Royal Mail track and trace confirmation showing Carneil Pen's package was delivered to me on the 2nd of July.
"Your item with reference BY395523405GB was delivered from our SHAWLANDS Delivery Office on 02/07/13"

Here is a photo of the entire contents of the package, less a length of bubblewrap: My rolled silver cap and Vac51 in one rigid tube, my grandfather's gold filled cap and the polished basket rubbing against one another in the other tube, and a leaflet advertising Carneil Pen's services. There was no "invoice to settle up" as claimed. Rather, I hope, the above proves that the cheque was cashed before the package was sent to me.



Here is Peter Crook's response. Aside from the standard PFO, there is a lot here that is highly singular. It is hard to know where to begin. For what it is worth, the jewel and brass bush were separated intact last year by the same restorer I bought the gold clip from.

I *insist* that my jewel be returned. Judging from Peter Crook's response, the refund will either come via trading standards, or if is possible and the fee not prohibitive, via getting my bank to stop the cheque.

Your note of yesterday was more than a surprise. I find it unfortunate that you have chosen to follow the route that you have taken in posting it on the internet in the way that you have without any recourse to me in the first instance. In my view this has made the matter much more difficult to handle. As you will have found, and this is a clear matter of fact, I choose to send out work done along with an invoice for a customer to settle up having had chance to inspect my work. I do this with confidence and I have a large collection of most pleasant and positive commendations. Surely a personal contact describing your issues, without public exposure, and before any payment was sent, would have been a more business like and gentlemanly approach. As it is I find that your complaint, regardless of any merit, has been posted on a website without any reply from me being laid alongside. A consequence is that some of the remarks posted by others, having only your comments to hand, are at the very least insulting and in some instances personally so.

I turn to the practicalities of the work I did :-

1. Adjustment of the clutch, [the word used by Parker rather than basket], in a 51 cap involves its removal from the cap. The first step in this is to remove the tassie or jewel from the top of the cap. These are bonded into the cap retaining screw by Parker during manufacture. On only about 50% of occasions is it possible to remove this usually aged and discoloured plastic component without either damage to its surface or broken screw threads on this tassie. Heat is carefully used but failure is common. A stock of new pearl tassies [bought from the USA] is kept so as to be ready for this eventuality. After the tassie is taken off, the clip can be unscrewed and the outside of the cap can be protected with tape ready for extraction of the clutch using a special tool which is able to draw the clutch out of the cap. The clutch in your cap, whilst needing adjustment to set the cap to barrel setting, was in good order in my view, so I judged that there was little point in replacement. Here I must point out that a disagreement by you on this point would have been a simple matter to put right should you have disagreed with my keeping back the spare for your future use.

After setting the clutch by fitting it on the barrel, and comparing the fit with the sample you sent, the cap was reassembled and a new tassie fitted. On reassembly I am perfectly aware that the clip has a recess in the top of the cap [in most instances –but not always] and I am convinced that your clip was put back in this way. My final check is to sight the clip to ensure it correct alignment. Your comments are therefore a puzzle to me, although I must add that, again, it would have been a simple matter to put right regardless of how this came about.

2. You refer to marks and scratches on the cap. The cap is protected with tape during the work and I cannot accept your remarks on this as being of relevance to me.

I repeat my opening comments. Any issues arising from the work I did for you could surely have been cleared up without giving others the opportunity to throw unnecessary personal insults. Finally I stress that these notes are addressed to you and have not been put forward to the forum you chose to use . I prefer to tackle any difficulties at a personal level in a business like manner as befits the approach of my profession

Eur.Ing.Peter crook

[Annie]

Flounder,

If it were me, I would ask that your jewel - the one that was 'broken,' still be returned to you, even if it is now in kit form. During similar problems with an entirely different repair person, I was told by Trading Standards that 'broken' parts were still your property and you should have them back. Last year, I did a sac replacement on a friend's pen. When I returned the pen, I also returned the old sac so that he could see for himself why it was never going to work. Had your package also contained a brief note explaining that your jewel had 'broken' you might feel a little better. The cap dings are still unexplained. I hope you get a refund as promptly as the cheque was cashed.


I rarely send pens away for work but when I do, I use a UV pen to mark the nib, shell, barrel, clip and any other part I can.

[dannzeman]

The off topic conversation between Deb, Jon, and myself has been moved here.

[Tony Rex]

Shame that Mr. Crook refused to tell his side. Qui tacet consentire...

[Deb]

Shame that Mr. Crook refused to tell his side. Qui tacet consentire...

But he did reply, to his customer and that was reported here, so there's no silence to be considered one way or another. If you refuse to recognise his response because it wasn't posted here by him, you're a little out of touch with reality. That's one of the problems: FPG is not a court. It cannot summon people to appear before it.

By token of the same regard, why did not the OP contact the repairer first before coming here? I can't imagine a situation in which I would use a pen group as the first place to go when I have a dispute with another individual.

[Tony Rex]

It is still one sided regardless. I only heard from Flounder so far. And by his defensive *ahem* manner, whether in silence or not, he's admitting fault.

[Deb]

It is still one sided regardless. I only heard from Flounder so far. And by his defensive *ahem* manner, whether in silence or not, he's admitting fault.

I suggest you read further back up the thread, then. It's normal to be defensive when accused. How do you know what Mr. Crook's manner is if you haven't heard from him? Frankly, I can't decide between them. I have no basis to do so. All I take away from this is that I'll be sure to avoid dealing with either of them.

[Tony Rex]

Poor Flounder left with a worse pen, less money, and now no one will believe him let alone help him.

I know some cultural difficulties for some in recognising their monarch, but customer is king, and they have the right to have their jewel back. I wish him AND Mr Crook well.

[Deb]

I believe Mr. Cook has explained that the "jewel" was broken in removal. He has replaced it with another one. I don't think it likely that he will have kept the broken bits to return to Flounder. That's not reasonable.

I think this example shows that the Feedback Forum doesn't benefit anyone in disputes.

[Annie]

I believe Mr. Cook has explained that the "jewel" was broken in removal. He has replaced it with another one. I don't think it likely that he will have kept the broken bits to return to Flounder. That's not reasonable.

I think this example shows that the Feedback Forum doesn't benefit anyone in disputes.

I think it's unreasonable to switch pen parts for whatever reason without informing the owner that it was done and why.

[Deb]

Maybe you're right. I don't know what common practice is as I don't repair pens for others. When that happens to me, and it does often as they're so fragile, the bits go in the bin and I source a replacement. Wanting the broken bits of a generic part seems like making a fuss for its own sake to me. Should repairers be sending back the bits of the old sac too?

[Sailor Kenshin]

Poor Flounder left with a worse pen, less money, and now no one will believe him let alone help him.

I know some cultural difficulties for some in recognising their monarch, but customer is king, and they have the right to have their jewel back. I wish him AND Mr Crook well.

And I don't blame anyone for wanting to learn and do repairs on his own. It seems the safest way, because even a good repairman can have an off day, and no one loves your pen the way you do.

[dduran]

Maybe you're right. I don't know what common practice is as I don't repair pens for others. When that happens to me, and it does often as they're so fragile, the bits go in the bin and I source a replacement. Wanting the broken bits of a generic part seems like making a fuss for its own sake to me. Should repairers be sending back the bits of the old sac too?

There's a big difference between a hard to find jewel and a "replaceable" sac. I'm not trying to defend anyone here but how would you feel if it happened to a pen that you VALUE. Actually it would have been ok if Mr. Crook ASKED for feedback/permission first. Maybe Flounder can clarify this part.

Again, Customer is King. Even if an expert decides not to replace this (clutch) or replace that (jewel), at the end of the day it's the customer's right to decide. The repairer in turn could walk away if he doesn't want to do it. If you look at Flounder's letter, he was very SPECIFIC to what he wanted, which wasn't done (replace clutch).

[Deb]

Actually, there's no difference. A "jewel" - actually a clip stud - isn't at all hard to find. They're expensive, of course, but one's as expensive as another. The jewel, according to the repairer broke on extraction and had to be replaced. What d'you want a broken piece of plastic back for? It's scrap with no possible use.