Would everyone agree that my three suggestions are a start to minimizing ad hominen attacks and improve the function of a Market Feedback forum?
Bold emphasis mine. This is how I envision these types of threads working. Not every case is going to be black and white where one party is clearly in the wrong. I think it comes down to whether you feel the service provider in question has done anything unreasonable. Some people won't think so and won't have problem doing business with them. Others will disagree and not do business with them.
I agree with you about my third suggestion of only allowing questions to be asked. I would take a lot of work to administer each thread and question being asked to make sure they're not phrased in such a way that points fingers. However, a lot of clarity can be gained by asking the right questions. What would be more beneficial, to only allow the parties involved to make their case and close the thread or to allow the parties involved to make their case and allow people to ask questions?
I'd accept all three proposed rules.
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Into presupposing other people's thoughts and motivations, putting words into other people's mouths, and hysterical pre-revolutionary analogy. You do not chair this debate Deb.
Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review
Steady, Flounder. You're getting upset.
Once again.
Last edited by Flounder; July 5th, 2013 at 02:59 PM. Reason: woops - wrong link.
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pocketses (July 8th, 2013)
Last edited by Jon Szanto; July 5th, 2013 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Fixed original bad quoting...
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
Nope. Nothing. Never. Certainly can't think of anything.
It's just a bit much that someone who at first doesn't read the rules of a forum, then considers a rewrite of the rules a waste of time because she considers those who participate in a forum a "baying mob" should then presume to dictate to the chair the course of debate on the topic of forum rules.
Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review
Annie (July 5th, 2013)
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
Flounder (July 5th, 2013)
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
The complainer has nothing to lose??? I do hope you are joking. How about the loss of a pen? If not the whole pen, what about the loss of a jewel or a cap?
Oh and this is a legal framework - we are each accountable for what we say. The repairer is accountable to his customer and to Trading Standards. If the customer makes a false claim the law will deal with it. I'm really pleased that feedback can be given here so that the good guys receive recognition and the bad ones are outed. It's a fact of life that you can rate your electrician, your doctor or your plumber or anyone who wants to moonlight as a worrying combination of all three. Those who do a good job have naff all to worry about and probably don't have the time.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/peachez
It appears the majority of people who've voiced their opinion seem to be for this type of forum, assuming it can be made to work. When that shifts and the majority feels we should do away with it, then we will. Until then, I'm going to continue to facilitate the discussion of ways to make it work.
Maybe ultimately, yes, since Eric and I are the only admins. But that's never been our philosophy in the way we run things here. We created sub-forums here that haven't been created elsewhere even after hundreds of requests. We've even removed forums that the community felt weren't needed, even though I disagreed with the decision. The FPGeeks forum is your community just as much as it mine. You have just as much say as I do, which is why we're having this discussion.
AndyT (July 5th, 2013), Annie (July 5th, 2013), crazystan (July 18th, 2013), ethernautrix (July 5th, 2013), Flounder (July 5th, 2013), Jon Szanto (July 5th, 2013), Pens&Lit (July 6th, 2013), pocketses (July 8th, 2013), reprieve (July 5th, 2013)
Dan, is there any chance of getting my reply added to the original thread?
Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review
To the first point: in one direction, an owner might lose a pen; in the other direction, a business person might lose their livelihood. I don't consider those equivalent.
I think one must be quite careful in discussing legalities, because this board is international, and differing business ethics and legal standards are in play. As for giving feedback, certainly that can and will be a good thing, once a mode is put in place that is as fair, transparent, and accountable as can be made. There is already a lot of documentation of the reputations of good businesses being harmed to varying degrees by the anonymity of Internet commenting. When people can hide behind the screen, they tend to say all manner of things. We need to find a way to deal with that, in both directions.
As to your very last sentence, let's take a concrete example: what if Mr. Crook has had an exemplary track record, and Mr. "Flounder" is the first person with a problem? Does Mr. Crook still have "naff all to worry about"? Is it not reasonable to expect the occasional loon (hypothetical, not Mr. "Flounder") to post a rant about an otherwise reputable business and end up with the Guilty Until Proven Innocent angle?
This shit has to be handled very carefully, if we are to really have a valuable tool to work with.
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin
"let's take a concrete example: what if Mr. Crook has had an exemplary track record, and Mr. "Flounder" is the first person with a problem?
Jon, I consider that example not concrete but hypothetical, recalling oldstoat's post. But I see what you mean, and take your point.
Latest pen related post @ flounders-mindthots.blogspot.com : '70s Pilot Elite pocket pen review
The intention of this forum is not to act as a court and decide one party guilty or innocent. The intent is for people to be able to share their experiences, good or bad, so that others can make an informed decision about who to buy from or send their pens to. I'm not explaining that because I don't think you understand our intent, jar, I'm doing so to make sure others understand that and to make our intent clear.
Do you think there is way to make it work?
What if we required users to verify their identity with an admin and include their real name in their post so both parties are clearly named?
Agreed.
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