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Thread: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

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    Default Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Hi All.
    I was unsure if this post belongs to Calligraphy or Montblanc sections, so I thought I should post it here as the question is very much tied to the brand.

    I'm a bit frustrated with my handwriting while using Monbtblanc pens. It seems like the nicer the pen, the worse is my calligraphy. I thought it should be the other way around... maybe I am not doing it right, so wanted some piece of advice on what I could do to improve my handwriting on nicer pens.

    Why would you think this is happening? Maybe medium pens are too smooth and I loose control?
    Maybe they are too wet for the size of my writing?
    Could this just be a matter of "getting used to"?
    What I could do to improve and "learn"? What am I doing wrong?

    It feels soo good writing with the 149 , its smooth and comfortable, but seems like that one shows the worst result!

    Below is a quick sample of my writing.

    Print:
    Print.jpg

    Cursive:
    Cursive.jpg

    Pens are:
    P1 - Very cheap (fine nib) Crown Capricci.
    P2 - Montblanc 146 - medium nib but feels quite like a fine nib.
    P3 - Montblanc 146 - really a medium nib.
    P4 - Montblanc 149 - my favorite pen, but always show worse results.
    P5 - A really ceap - not even fountain pen Uniball fine.

    Paper is Rhodia - A5 notebook

    Please share your advice...

    Thanks.
    Walter

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    My 149 w/medium nib is extremely smooth and wet. I have to write larger to get good results with my - extremely poor - handwriting. I do find that I have the same problem with similar - nib size & wetness - pens.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Perhaps the greater size, weight and nib length of the 149 alters the balance of the pen for you, especially compared to smaller, lighter pens. This, in turn, may affect the way you hold it and your ability to control it.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    One of the traditional (and quick) ways of telling if you have the correct size nib for your handwriting is to make a lower case cursive "e"

    If the loop is open then you are good to go
    If the loop gets filled in, you need to go finer.

    your "e"s are very close/closed in the first place, so this method is maybe not ideal for you

    Looking at your cursive samples, i noticed that in p3, and more in p4, your handwriting seems to get ... i guess overwhelmed? overshadowed?... overtaken? I can't quite find the right word, i guess overwhelmed is probably the best one. Anyways, it seems to get overwhelmed by the size and wetness of the nib.

    I think your best results were with P1 (best) and p2(second best). It flows, its... alive? vibrant?... more natural i guess?

    I think the "meh" results with P5 might be due to the stuttering/questioning of yourself that can come with repeatedly writing the same thing over and over. The pressure builds up and you stutter/hesitate as you write. I think that might be what happened in P5

    I think you should try writing larger with P3 and P4.
    I also think a fine nib is more your style.

    just my 2c. and i am no expert, just offering my (very amateurish) observations.

    EDIT: i think i said "i think" too many times in this post... :P
    Last edited by INeedAFinancialAdvisor; August 5th, 2020 at 09:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    You simply thought wrong. Consider this a learning experience. Price has NOTHING to do with calligraphy.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    I don’t notice any great difference in legibility or neatness. A couple of the wetter pens would be better suited to larger handwriting. Size does matter!

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Like many here i have many, many pens (almost all are inexpensive, most vintage) and I find it interesting how easy it is to write neatly with some pens and not others.

    I haven't quite sorted out why yet so i cant predict, for me, which pens to select, but I have noticed a few things along the way.

    I find it a little harder to control extremely smooth pens than those with some feedback or drag on the page. Maybe I can get used to it (experiment forthcoming).

    I find that very wet-writing pens feel out of control probably because I feel rushed to write faster. And I find it very hard to write both quickly and legibly. So I either use a dry ink or tune the nib or both to achieve a less generous flow.

    I like finer nibs (F, EF, posting) as my e loops are usually unduly cramped if I am not concentrating closely. I might be able to fix this muscle memory tendency with some handwriting drills.

    I theorize, but have yet to conduct an experiment to confirm, that the distance of natural grip to the nib and thus the angle of the pen matter to me. Pens without a defined grip position tend to be the pens i write best with (e.g., Parker 45, 51; Montblanc 221, Jinhao 51A, Sheaffer Signature w/ Triumph nib). But this isn't universally true (exceptions include: Pilot Stargazer, Waterman Hemisphere)

    Related to this (i think?), I notice that I have a hard time writing lower loops (particularly g, y z) with some pens but not others. On some pens they come out too short, are hard to slant correctly, and feel awkward to write. Arm writing helps to some extent. I often write with hand/wrist rather than arm, though.

    Pens that are too heavy (above about 30g) are harder for to control and maintain a consistent grip position especially if the grip is too smooth with a continuous contour (Lamy Studio, chrome section). I find most pens awkwardly unbalanced with their caps posted. This is a less often true for shorter pens and/or pens with light caps (Pelikan M205, Sheaffer Balance).

    Ergonomics play such an big role for me that I prioritize finding a pen I naturally write legibly with over price and brand. I have pens ranging from $10 to $150 and there is no clear correlation between cost and hoe well I write or how much I enjoy it. There is absolutely a correlation between price tier and fit and finish. (For vintage, I mean original price tier not used prices).

    So in short it would be worth trying some differently shaped, sized, and weighted pens of varying flow and see what works beat for you.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Have you tried other paper? Personally I find Rhodia too slick sometimes whereas Tomoe River or Midori cotton works much better for nice writing.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguarish View Post
    Have you tried other paper? Personally I find Rhodia too slick sometimes whereas Tomoe River or Midori cotton works much better for nice writing.
    The paper could have influence, and I agree Rhodia is a bit too slick for a newbie like me.

    I have only tried Atoma (which do provide more feedback but it bleeds and feathers too much for Montblanc) and Rhodia. Couldn't find Midori or Tomoe River here in Brazil.
    I've seen Clairefontaine but only blank sketching pages - have not tried it yet.

    Best regards!
    Walter

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    Like many here i have many, many pens (almost all are inexpensive, most vintage) and I find it interesting how easy it is to write neatly with some pens and not others.

    I haven't quite sorted out why yet so i cant predict, for me, which pens to select, but I have noticed a few things along the way.

    I find it a little harder to control extremely smooth pens than those with some feedback or drag on the page. Maybe I can get used to it (experiment forthcoming).

    I find that very wet-writing pens feel out of control probably because I feel rushed to write faster. And I find it very hard to write both quickly and legibly. So I either use a dry ink or tune the nib or both to achieve a less generous flow.

    I like finer nibs (F, EF, posting) as my e loops are usually unduly cramped if I am not concentrating closely. I might be able to fix this muscle memory tendency with some handwriting drills.

    I theorize, but have yet to conduct an experiment to confirm, that the distance of natural grip to the nib and thus the angle of the pen matter to me. Pens without a defined grip position tend to be the pens i write best with (e.g., Parker 45, 51; Montblanc 221, Jinhao 51A, Sheaffer Signature w/ Triumph nib). But this isn't universally true (exceptions include: Pilot Stargazer, Waterman Hemisphere)

    Related to this (i think?), I notice that I have a hard time writing lower loops (particularly g, y z) with some pens but not others. On some pens they come out too short, are hard to slant correctly, and feel awkward to write. Arm writing helps to some extent. I often write with hand/wrist rather than arm, though.

    Pens that are too heavy (above about 30g) are harder for to control and maintain a consistent grip position especially if the grip is too smooth with a continuous contour (Lamy Studio, chrome section). I find most pens awkwardly unbalanced with their caps posted. This is a less often true for shorter pens and/or pens with light caps (Pelikan M205, Sheaffer Balance).

    Ergonomics play such an big role for me that I prioritize finding a pen I naturally write legibly with over price and brand. I have pens ranging from $10 to $150 and there is no clear correlation between cost and hoe well I write or how much I enjoy it. There is absolutely a correlation between price tier and fit and finish. (For vintage, I mean original price tier not used prices).

    So in short it would be worth trying some differently shaped, sized, and weighted pens of varying flow and see what works beat for you.
    Thanks for these thoughts.... interesting perspective on the topic.
    I think its a combination of things (smoothness, ink flow, etc) that end up affecting, but it does feel like I write better with finer lines.

    Best regards.
    Walter

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    I especially like and write well with MB 144 in EF, F and M nibs. I didn't do as well with the larger 146 and 149. I have been using the 144 in medium and fine since 1983 and 1990 respectively. With a Parker 51, they are my favorite and most used pens. These pens seem lighter and more controllable. I am a left hander with relatively small hands.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wmundstock View Post
    Hi All.
    I was unsure if this post belongs to Calligraphy or Montblanc sections, so I thought I should post it here as the question is very much tied to the brand.

    I'm a bit frustrated with my handwriting while using Monbtblanc pens. It seems like the nicer the pen, the worse is my calligraphy. I thought it should be the other way around... maybe I am not doing it right, so wanted some piece of advice on what I could do to improve my handwriting on nicer pens.

    Why would you think this is happening? Maybe medium pens are too smooth and I loose control?
    Maybe they are too wet for the size of my writing?
    Could this just be a matter of "getting used to"?
    What I could do to improve and "learn"? What am I doing wrong?

    It feels soo good writing with the 149 , its smooth and comfortable, but seems like that one shows the worst result!
    Paper is Rhodia - A5 notebook

    Please share your advice...

    Thanks.
    Walter
    One of my first questions would be are you writing with all of your pens posted or do you only post some of them?
    Some of your pens may feel more unbalanced when posted and that could be affecting the angle at which you're writing across the paper.
    Many of my pens feel unbalanced if I try to write with their caps posted, so I tend to not post pens unless they are pocket pens designed for that purpose.
    So if you're using your Montblanc 149 pen posted then try using it unposed to see if that makes a difference to the way your writing looks.

    Another question would be the ink. From your writing samples, it looks like all of the pens are filled with different ink. You could try using different inks in your 149 and see which combination makes your handwriting look neater. I often feel like a particular pen writes really nicely with one particular ink and if that happens I tend to stick with that combination.

    As others have also said, try different papers too.

    I'm sure you will find a perfect fit for you. However, just because a pen is expensive it doesn't mean that it will be the one that makes your handwriting look neat. There are more factors at play.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    I've noticed my handwritting is better when making a note than when writing a letter. I think it is because a letter introduces a bit of stress to write well. Also, I have noticed that I write better on paper without lines. This allows me to not try to fill up the whole space. In other words, I write better small than large script.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Nibs with an edge help me write more legibly. My favorites are vintage German broad and double broads, but i also enjoy stubs on vintage American pens.


    Obliques work, too.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Two to three years back I have seen something on Ted talks. It is about PENMANSHIP AND HAND WRITING.
    By that time I own two pens A Mont blanc 146, Faber-Castell e-motion, and just one bottle of ink. Lot of Ballpoint pens ( Top Quality big marks too ) Then looking at my writings I thought to workon my writing. Since then I started to practice "American cursive" and invested some time. to improve my writing.
    I never expected my Mont Blanc pens to shape my writing. So meantime i invested money to by new pens and inks. Today I have lot of pens a kind of collection of pens with different lines of nibs. My begning of the collection was extra fine and did not add any Broad or Medium. I love italic nibs and they are giving me enough interesting Feed back to the paper so it gives a nice experience.
    I am now onto Calligraphy dip pens and ink because I was interesting on Caligraphy long time ago. It is my next goal to improve that aspect too.

    My best advice here to anyone, is to do some investment of time to do practicing a style and imitate it regularly until it changes into your present writing ( I call it getting rid of the bad habit of writing).
    That is what I did and I was able to change my writing within a very short period of time.

    Buy several Cheap A4 wide ruled pads, HB Pencils ( mechanical pencils ), A Pen with an EF Nib,(never a M or B nib as it hides all your mistakes and can't see the consistency of correctness you need to do as you progress)

    Just look at Palmers Method of writing. Spencerian, Ladies hand orAmerican Business Writing or any other style to your liking.
    Then use a pencil and practice.

    I am regularly doing it as time permits and I do warm-up writing so I get my" muscle memories of writing". I can still write my older writing and My Formal Cursive writing is 200% improved and is a different style.
    I am planing to learn Calligraphy with Flexing ( Copperplate and Modern Calligraphy ) I am sure it is easy for me to get it faster.

    So please don't expect your pen to shape your writing but you have give it a go-to improve your " New muscle memories " so you can do it differently.

    This is my few sents on how to improve the writing and it is the exact way I did it and It wroked for me . I still keep doing it.

    Enjoy your writing and get more deeper into it!!!
    Last edited by Cyril; August 13th, 2020 at 03:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    I used to believe that expensive pens like Montblanc would improve my handwriting, but I was wrong. Despite the investment, my handwriting remained poor. It wasn't until I desided to buy case study online and analyzed different writing techniques that I realized the problem wasn't the pen but rather my technique. So, don't be fooled by the price tag; improving handwriting takes practice, not expensive pens.
    Last edited by Mık Joger; February 7th, 2024 at 06:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Handwriting with Montblanc worse than cheap pens?! Please help!

    Hey look, it’s our old friend Mik!

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