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Thread: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

  1. #21
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    A screw cap and the fact that it might fill using cartridges or a converter would be attractive features to me compared with the original 51. That doesn't necessarily mean I would want one though.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.

    Anyway, I can see the screw cap and cartridge fill appealing to people who might otherwise not be much interested in the 51, but currently the most interesting take on a modern 51 is still the Wing Sung 601 I think.
    Parker had a clean slate and availabilty to produce either vintage fill system like Wing Sung did with the 601. They also surely know how to perform marketing research. They could have provided a free converter. Lots of things they didn't do. What they did do is price their offering $90 more than the 601. I don't think you can fault anyone of us for being disappointed.

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  5. #23
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.

    Anyway, I can see the screw cap and cartridge fill appealing to people who might otherwise not be much interested in the 51, but currently the most interesting take on a modern 51 is still the Wing Sung 601 I think.
    Parker had a clean slate and availabilty to produce either vintage fill system like Wing Sung did with the 601. They also surely know how to perform marketing research. They could have provided a free converter. Lots of things they didn't do. What they did do is price their offering $90 more than the 601. I don't think you can fault anyone of us for being disappointed.
    Grainweevil makes a slew of good points. Chuck, you nailed it too.
    Parker could have just paid Wing Sung off, tweaked the 601 and sold it for $50...

  6. #24
    Senior Member penwash's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.
    Then how about calling this new pen anything but "51". Call it Parker 81 or something.

    Then this new creation/product bearing Parker name can still draw comparison and marketing appeal against the 51, 61, 75, Sonnet, clones, copies, inspired-bys, and it stand a chance to be accepted by its own merit (good or bad) without being dissed as "inferior" before it even launched.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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  8. #25
    Senior Member Sailor Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    I already have a real 51, AND a c/c Hero that cost under ten bucks.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    Dr. Inkenstein--it was a dark and stormy write!

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  10. #26
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.
    Then how about calling this new pen anything but "51". Call it Parker 81 or something.

    Then this new creation/product bearing Parker name can still draw comparison and marketing appeal against the 51, 61, 75, Sonnet, clones, copies, inspired-bys, and it stand a chance to be accepted by its own merit (good or bad) without being dissed as "inferior" before it even launched.
    great point, they still had kind of a lot of numbers left.

  11. #27
    Senior Member grainweevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.
    Then how about calling this new pen anything but "51". Call it Parker 81 or something.

    Then this new creation/product bearing Parker name can still draw comparison and marketing appeal against the 51, 61, 75, Sonnet, clones, copies, inspired-bys, and it stand a chance to be accepted by its own merit (good or bad) without being dissed as "inferior" before it even launched.
    great point, they still had kind of a lot of numbers left.
    Doesn't that take us back to point one: "Why don't Parker make a 51?" Besides, the only reason to make it at all is to cash in on the history, isn't it?

    I have no particular inclination to fight Parker's corner, I simply think this is a situation where Parker can't win while still making money. When you're existing in the joyless black hole of Newell Brands ownership, sadly that's the only game in town.
    In the words of Paul Simon, you can call me Al.

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.
    Then how about calling this new pen anything but "51". Call it Parker 81 or something.

    Then this new creation/product bearing Parker name can still draw comparison and marketing appeal against the 51, 61, 75, Sonnet, clones, copies, inspired-bys, and it stand a chance to be accepted by its own merit (good or bad) without being dissed as "inferior" before it even launched.
    great point, they still had kind of a lot of numbers left.
    Doesn't that take us back to point one: "Why don't Parker make a 51?" Besides, the only reason to make it at all is to cash in on the history, isn't it?

    I have no particular inclination to fight Parker's corner, I simply think this is a situation where Parker can't win while still making money. When you're existing in the joyless black hole of Newell Brands ownership, sadly that's the only game in town.
    Yes, I think that is the point.

    Parker has an ageing product line up and an opportunity to make some use of past glories with access to a manufacturing facility that can make a pen that is something like the original for a very small amount of money.

    I dont know how the pen will be sold or expected sales, expected enthusiast sales might not be that big a deal.

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    My thought is, Parker didn't want to fool with users returning a malfunctioning fill system from generations of consumers unfamiliar with fountain pen use. It would be like introducing a manual typewritter to me when I am used to a computer keyboard and never learned to type anyway.

    On the other hand Wing Sung can do it because most consumers are not going to be concerned if their $13 pen stops working.

    Several years ago Martin Guitar introduced a remake of their 1930's dreadnought model which was lightly braced and didn't have an adjustable truss rod. The owner said the price reflected the anticipated cost of warrentee work. Since then Martin no longer has a life time warrentee benefit to the original owner.

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    'The owner said the price reflected the anticipated cost of warrentee work'

    Thats a classic. Years ago I had a Mitsubishi Shogun (Pajero in some markets) I bought it because it was the only car at the time with a 3 year warranty and I thought it was worth paying a little more than the equivalent Toyota or Range Rover, the Mitusbishi turned out to be the most unreliable car I ever owned.

    If Parker had made a faithful reproduction of a Vac or Aero I would buy one, this thing is a 51 in name only

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    If you want to see what might happen, just look at the pens now branded "Conklin."

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    I'm not familar with Conklin. It would be better if you would explain your point rather than leaving it up to me and others to decipher.

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Take it easy.

    Fred can speak for himself but my interpretation is that the Conklin of the past was a prestige brand with innovative filling systems and good nibs. The Conklin of today has bright and shiny finishes and that is about it, indifferent nibs, ordinary filling systems all in a colorfull suit, a pen from the marketing department instead of the engineers.

    Other pen brands have done the same thing, new brands with no connection to the past other than they have bought the name including Conway Stewart and others.

    It happens a lot, it is easy to buy a reputation than to build it.

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  20. #34
    Senior Member penwash's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.
    Then how about calling this new pen anything but "51". Call it Parker 81 or something.

    Then this new creation/product bearing Parker name can still draw comparison and marketing appeal against the 51, 61, 75, Sonnet, clones, copies, inspired-bys, and it stand a chance to be accepted by its own merit (good or bad) without being dissed as "inferior" before it even launched.
    great point, they still had kind of a lot of numbers left.
    Doesn't that take us back to point one: "Why don't Parker make a 51?" Besides, the only reason to make it at all is to cash in on the history, isn't it?

    I have no particular inclination to fight Parker's corner, I simply think this is a situation where Parker can't win while still making money. When you're existing in the joyless black hole of Newell Brands ownership, sadly that's the only game in town.
    Parker can still win. But only if they put some real effort to it.

    Two scenarios where they may be able to "cash in" on the history and popularity of Parker 51:

    1. Create a truly new version of Parker 51. Ink collector, similar nib design as the original Parker 51, and the famous slip cap clutch system, then add a plunger system that doesn't need rubber diaphragm. If PenBBS can do it today, why can't Parker? Or choose an easier path called "Aerometric". If they go through this scenario, they can sell 17 different "special editions caps" to collectors with deep pockets, that could have very high margin.

    2. Create a truly new Parker 81 (I'm just going to use this number for example). This is not "51" but will invariably draw the comparison with one. Here, they can cater to C/C users, not use the ink collector system, make it a screw cap, etc. Even in this scenario, if they build a new "legend" with quality and consistency, they too, could sell 17 different "special edition caps".

    Unfortunately, they seem to go with the scenario where they created something that "draws the ire" of the pen enthusiasts, cutting their public-sourced, free-marketing by a lot, so they are probably left with people who are either super curious and have money, or have no clue what and why the original Parker 51 was and still is a "legend".

    Maybe that is enough for them. I am not Parker and really have no business criticizing their decisions other than typing out my observations from the POV of a hobbyist.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.

    Anyway, I can see the screw cap and cartridge fill appealing to people who might otherwise not be much interested in the 51, but currently the most interesting take on a modern 51 is still the Wing Sung 601 I think.
    Great post! Parker today is no more like Parker of yesteryear than real motor cars then, versus the computers on wheels of today. In 1963, I drove my MGB. In 2020, I’m ‘steering’ my Miata MX5 computer on wheels. I cherished my MGB. I love my MX5 but they are as different as day and night. Now, back to pens, specifically, the Parker ‘51. I’m blessed to have my Parker ‘51 Special from university days circa 1962, AND, it still feels, looks and writes like it did then. Will I buy the NEW ‘51? No. You hit the mark grainweevil. The old ones (and those restored, for the most part) are all but “indestructible.” If a NEW one excites your fancy, have at it. I’ll pass, thank you.

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    Senior Member Linkinyeah's Avatar
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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)


    Any interest for $98? Aerometric filler, gold nib, functional push pencil. I know I should post in for sale but captive audience of 51 fans here. No dents or glaring scratches.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by Linkinyeah View Post

    Any interest for $98? Aerometric filler, gold nib, functional push pencil. I know I should post in for sale but captive audience of 51 fans here. No dents or glaring scratches.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That is such a bargain Linkin, the frosting looks perfect, best of luck

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by DCmin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Parker - Does not make a 51
    Crowd - Parker, why don't you make a 51 instead of letting everyone else do it?
    Parker - OK, we'll make a top of the range one then.
    Crowd - Too expensive. Would rather buy three vintage 51s for that.
    Parker - All right then, we'll make a more affordable one.
    Crowd - Urgh, the quality isn't half as good as the vintage ones. We'll stick with Lucite thanks.
    Parker - Well, all right, how about one with features you can't actually get with a vintage 51.
    Crowd - No! Now it's not a 51 at all. My vintage 51s will do me.
    Parker -

    In short, where Parker's gone wrong is 80 years ago when they made the ruddy things so indestructible in the first place. Of course, if they hadn't, the 51 would not be the icon is is today and nobody'd be wanting them to remake it anyway. Yep, Parker's on a hiding to nothing with this one, all right.

    Anyway, I can see the screw cap and cartridge fill appealing to people who might otherwise not be much interested in the 51, but currently the most interesting take on a modern 51 is still the Wing Sung 601 I think.
    Great post! Parker today is no more like Parker of yesteryear than real motor cars then, versus the computers on wheels of today. In 1963, I drove my MGB. In 2020, I’m ‘steering’ my Miata MX5 computer on wheels. I cherished my MGB. I love my MX5 but they are as different as day and night. Now, back to pens, specifically, the Parker ‘51. I’m blessed to have my Parker ‘51 Special from university days circa 1962, AND, it still feels, looks and writes like it did then. Will I buy the NEW ‘51? No. You hit the mark grainweevil. The old ones (and those restored, for the most part) are all but “indestructible.” If a NEW one excites your fancy, have at it. I’ll pass, thank you.
    Very interesting post DC. Still on the car theme, if MG reintroduced with a non rusting body and a modern engine, better suspension and all the modern stuff you would want, would you buy a 2020 MGB assuming that it had the same body?

    I would always want the original 51 such as that from Linkin above.

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    I would probably go for that ‘new and improved’ MGB if it was available. Mazda came out with a ‘97 Special Edition British Racing Green MX5 (NA) that I should have bought. It was everything the MGB lacked (given my MGB was 30 years older in ‘97). I still wish I had the old MGB despite its shortcomings. I had a ton of fun auto crossing and rallying that B!

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    Default Re: About that new Parker 51 (2020 edition)

    Quote Originally Posted by DCmin View Post
    I would probably go for that ‘new and improved’ MGB if it was available. Mazda came out with a ‘97 Special Edition British Racing Green MX5 (NA) that I should have bought. It was everything the MGB lacked (given my MGB was 30 years older in ‘97). I still wish I had the old MGB despite its shortcomings. I had a ton of fun auto crossing and rallying that B!
    It was a biased question DC, I also had a B, great fun to drive at any speed, fast or slow and undeserving of their nickname of a Morris Oxford convertible. I had the choice of a fully restored one with a two litre Osselli engine, kicking myself that I turned it down.

    I think that puts us firmly in the orginal 51 club.

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