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Thread: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Mr Detman, Reading your posts there seems to be a sense of frenzied desperation. It also appears that in your quest to find the perfect pen you are willing to submit to impulsiveness. By your own admission you have not done the research to educate yourself on the intricacies of what is available. This is understandable as your enthusiasm for fountain pens is just now beginning to blossom. However, fountain pens have been around a long time and have provided satisfaction to many people who are attracted to them for a myriad of reasons. Your perceived needs can be met. You will find the pen(s) that you desire. But, don't get too rigid in your demands, because, as you will see, what you want now will probably change as you get more knowledge about the pens themselves. This will affect the decisions you make about the pens you want. i would suggest that you slow down a little. Take some time to learn more. Practice with the pens you have, maybe take one apart, but take the time to understand what you have. I do think you need to learn more so you can spend your money wisely. Then, you can better understand the way to move forward. I am not scolding you, I am just being honest after more than 50 years of using a fountain pen. Your enthusiasm should be encouraged, not damped by disappointment.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    Mr Detman, Reading your posts there seems to be a sense of frenzied desperation. It also appears that in your quest to find the perfect pen you are willing to submit to impulsiveness. By your own admission you have not done the research to educate yourself on the intricacies of what is available. This is understandable as your enthusiasm for fountain pens is just now beginning to blossom. However, fountain pens have been around a long time and have provided satisfaction to many people who are attracted to them for a myriad of reasons. Your perceived needs can be met. You will find the pen(s) that you desire. But, don't get too rigid in your demands, because, as you will see, what you want now will probably change as you get more knowledge about the pens themselves. This will affect the decisions you make about the pens you want. i would suggest that you slow down a little. Take some time to learn more. Practice with the pens you have, maybe take one apart, but take the time to understand what you have. I do think you need to learn more so you can spend your money wisely. Then, you can better understand the way to move forward. I am not scolding you, I am just being honest after more than 50 years of using a fountain pen. Your enthusiasm should be encouraged, not damped by disappointment.
    Quite understood sir, thank you.
    I've modified my methods and requested to become an understudy to a nib-meister in order to develop my "wild ideas" into fountain pen innovation. We will see if that request is honored...either way, the testing will continue.

    I know my postings, questions and requests for information have been borderline harassment to the placid and complacent community here, so I'm going to take my questions and creation to the real world. I apologize for stressing you all out.
    If I ever want to gloss over high-priced acquisitions or brag about my accomplishments in the future, I know just where to go.

    Everyone has to start somewhere, this just isn't the place for someone like me to do that.
    And I'm not blaming you all completely, it's mostly me...I'm not widely compatible with the general population and as such, on came the blowback and tension experienced here.

    Thanks and take care.
    Last edited by Detman101; August 30th, 2020 at 11:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Sorry to lose you. Good luck with the journey.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    I think you should stick around and use the forum to learn.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I think you should stick around and use the forum to learn.
    I agree, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here. I've interacted with some truly amazingly knowledgeable members here and the longstanding database of information contained here is stupendous.

    I will stay and watch.
    I will not share or express my ideas.


    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I think you should stick around and use the forum to learn.
    I agree, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here. I've interacted with some truly amazingly knowledgeable members here and the longstanding database of information contained here is stupendous.

    I will stay and watch.
    I will not share or express my ideas.


    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    I've gotten my hands slapped a few times, but more often I've been encouraged. I've also bought from Deb, a member here, who between her and Chrissy have much historical knowledge. Also, Ron Z lends an helping hand always.

    More than a few times I have been able to repair or restore a pen or pencil from the information gleaned here.

    As one member says, "pull up a stump and sit a spell".

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I think you should stick around and use the forum to learn.
    I agree, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here. I've interacted with some truly amazingly knowledgeable members here and the longstanding database of information contained here is stupendous.

    I will stay and watch.
    I will not share or express my ideas.


    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    Glad to have you back.
    And please do express your ideas.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I think you should stick around and use the forum to learn.
    I agree, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here. I've interacted with some truly amazingly knowledgeable members here and the longstanding database of information contained here is stupendous.

    I will stay and watch.
    I will not share or express my ideas.


    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    Please, share your thoughts and ideas. Sharing thoughts and ideas allows all of us an opportunity to learn.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Ron's response is exactly what I have found as well. At first, the pens are very rudimentary and have a variety of problems with feeding, blobbing, stopper mechanisms that need careful repair, etc. They can absolutely be good writers, but it's very difficult to put together a fully functional, good pen from that era. You have to wade through a lot of damaged stuff, stuff that doesn't work, etc before you have something good.

    But over time, the pens improved in reliability, repair, etc. They continued to be daily writers for people, but they become easier to work on, more parts available, etc. I'd say some time in the second half of the 1910s, the basic design is nailed down. I tend to think of the Waterman lever filler PSF series, or the hard rubber lever Sheaffer flat tops, and the Parker button filler Jack Knife as workable daily writers if you're in a relatively tame, office environment. I've used pens like that on a daily basis and they write well. But that's not to say we're going back much before 1920. Ron is correct that the hard rubber can be brittle, so care is needed. But I still use some of mine on a regular basis, and they do just fine.

    If you're looking for a classic, basic flexible writer, I'd look at something like a Waterman's No. 52.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    If you're looking for a classic, basic flexible writer, I'd look at something like a Waterman's No. 52.
    Agreed. There are an awful lot of No. 52s around, and black ones are fairly inexpensive, while meeting the original, classic definition of a flexible nib. With a little care, they're something that you can easily resac yourself.

    Visit Main Street Pens
    A full service pen shop providing professional, thoughtful pen repair....

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    I am just learning about Waterman 52.
    "The numerous versions in which it appeared make the 52 an ideal pen on which to focus a collection. Also, because Waterman offered a broad selection of nibs, collectors who enjoy writing with their pens find the 52 a good user pen. Many 52s can be found with flexible or superflexible “wet noodle” nibs, and for this reason the 52 is almost a cult icon among flex-nib fans. All of these ways to enjoy the pen exist side by side, attracting ever-growing numbers of adherents, made possible by the great quantity of these pens that Waterman made."
    http://www.richardspens.com/ref/profiles/52.htm

    So, how would a potential buyer determine if the pen has a "wet noodle" nib prior to purchase?

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Ask the seller to provide a writing sample. That seems to be the only way. The idea that one can tell a flexible nib by tine length or other aspects of appearance is mistaken.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Indeed, the Waterman 52. Relatively easy to find black versions at reasonable prices with okay nibs. Wet noodles, not so much without throwing large wads of moolah at them. Never tried one myself, but as a user of dip pens I have some experience of truly flexible pens, so it would be nice to compare someday.

    Here's an observation about vintage flexible pens.

    1. There is usually a lot of excitement/energy in talking about such things.
    2. There is usually an attendant high level of excitement and anticipation in the pursuit of same.
    3. There is normally a degree of triumphalism on acquiring such a beast.
    4. There is considerably less post-acquisition talk or enthusiasm.


    Strangely enough, in the world of modern flex pens, i.e. Noodler's Ahabs and the like, there is far more post-acquisition talk. Much of this is around getting the things to work, but also a lot of examples of what people have done with their pens.

    I find the different approaches a touch puzzling, and have thought to put it down to youthful/inexperienced enthusiasm vs jaded older/experienced. No doubt this is an oversimplification, so take it for that.
    Be a little more open into accepting other viewpoints, if you can, as it really deepens the experience. - Jon Szanto

    As long as you don't throw out friendships, I'm pretty much ok with you being you. - Jon Szanto

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    I would have to try a vintage flex pen to create any kind of interest in finding one. The thought of hunting down a vintage pen with the same fervor I had used to find my vintage fedora doesn't appeal to me.

    I just don't feel like doing it...at all. Hunting eBay, auctions, thrift stores, estate sales, talking to people, stalking websites...that is soooooooo much work. And in the midst of a pandemic?? No thanks...

    And as long as I don't have a live example to create any kind of addiction, I'm safe and complacent with my experience of modern day flex pens.

    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    For me, the hunt is major part of the enjoyment. And, it’s like wanting to have the experience

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post

    Strangely enough, in the world of modern flex pens, i.e. Noodler's Ahabs and the like, there is far more post-acquisition talk. Much of this is around getting the things to work, but also a lot of examples of what people have done with their pens.

    I find the different approaches a touch puzzling, and have thought to put it down to youthful/inexperienced enthusiasm vs jaded older/experienced. No doubt this is an oversimplification, so take it for that.

    I picked up a Noodlers Ahab for $5 on Ebay (Long term customer discount) and got it today. I think that there is a basic set of things that HAVE to be done to get the Ahab up and running that most people forego or simply forget in their excitement to use the pen. I read up on all the posted things that people had done and also Mr Tardiffs wonderful instruction set and created my own word document with an outline of things to do to get a Noodlers Ahab up and running and FLEXING properly.
    It works just as reliably as the field instructions I make for the system administrators and engineers at work.
    I've put this pen through 3 different configurations this morning and every last one works as long as you follow the instructions.
    The Noodlers Ahab is truly an engineers fountain pen...

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post

    Strangely enough, in the world of modern flex pens, i.e. Noodler's Ahabs and the like, there is far more post-acquisition talk. Much of this is around getting the things to work, but also a lot of examples of what people have done with their pens.

    I find the different approaches a touch puzzling, and have thought to put it down to youthful/inexperienced enthusiasm vs jaded older/experienced. No doubt this is an oversimplification, so take it for that.

    I picked up a Noodlers Ahab for $5 on Ebay (Long term customer discount) and got it today. I think that there is a basic set of things that HAVE to be done to get the Ahab up and running that most people forego or simply forget in their excitement to use the pen. I read up on all the posted things that people had done and also Mr Tardiffs wonderful instruction set and created my own word document with an outline of things to do to get a Noodlers Ahab up and running and FLEXING properly.
    It works just as reliably as the field instructions I make for the system administrators and engineers at work.
    I've put this pen through 3 different configurations this morning and every last one works as long as you follow the instructions.
    The Noodlers Ahab is truly an engineers fountain pen...
    What is your concept of an engineer's FP?

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post

    Strangely enough, in the world of modern flex pens, i.e. Noodler's Ahabs and the like, there is far more post-acquisition talk. Much of this is around getting the things to work, but also a lot of examples of what people have done with their pens.

    I find the different approaches a touch puzzling, and have thought to put it down to youthful/inexperienced enthusiasm vs jaded older/experienced. No doubt this is an oversimplification, so take it for that.

    I picked up a Noodlers Ahab for $5 on Ebay (Long term customer discount) and got it today. I think that there is a basic set of things that HAVE to be done to get the Ahab up and running that most people forego or simply forget in their excitement to use the pen. I read up on all the posted things that people had done and also Mr Tardiffs wonderful instruction set and created my own word document with an outline of things to do to get a Noodlers Ahab up and running and FLEXING properly.
    It works just as reliably as the field instructions I make for the system administrators and engineers at work.
    I've put this pen through 3 different configurations this morning and every last one works as long as you follow the instructions.
    The Noodlers Ahab is truly an engineers fountain pen...
    What is your concept of an engineer's FP?
    In my opinion...This pen.
    It's tinkerable from tip to cap(Nib, feed), Tough as nails, has replaceable parts that are almost standardized and available CONUS, 3 options for ink-filling so that if one method doesn't work for a situation or parts aren't readily available...simply switch over.
    As close to a universal design as I've seen (in my limited experience)

    I'm sure someone will bring up some pen from the early 1900s that they believe fits the bill better that only rich people can afford...
    But I have no experience with those vintage pens nor the desire to.
    To me, the Noodlers Ahab is universal, affordable and easily serviceable.

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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    ... To me, the Noodlers Ahab is universal, affordable and easily serviceable.
    I believe that was the original concept.

    If you haven't seen it already, Nathan Tardif's video about the Ahab is worth a look.


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    Default Re: Ignore: Gutted...I don't understand this. Everythings gone backwards...

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post

    Strangely enough, in the world of modern flex pens, i.e. Noodler's Ahabs and the like, there is far more post-acquisition talk. Much of this is around getting the things to work, but also a lot of examples of what people have done with their pens.

    I find the different approaches a touch puzzling, and have thought to put it down to youthful/inexperienced enthusiasm vs jaded older/experienced. No doubt this is an oversimplification, so take it for that.

    I picked up a Noodlers Ahab for $5 on Ebay (Long term customer discount) and got it today. I think that there is a basic set of things that HAVE to be done to get the Ahab up and running that most people forego or simply forget in their excitement to use the pen. I read up on all the posted things that people had done and also Mr Tardiffs wonderful instruction set and created my own word document with an outline of things to do to get a Noodlers Ahab up and running and FLEXING properly.
    It works just as reliably as the field instructions I make for the system administrators and engineers at work.
    I've put this pen through 3 different configurations this morning and every last one works as long as you follow the instructions.
    The Noodlers Ahab is truly an engineers fountain pen...
    What is your concept of an engineer's FP?
    In my opinion...This pen.
    It's tinkerable from tip to cap(Nib, feed), Tough as nails, has replaceable parts that are almost standardized and available CONUS, 3 options for ink-filling so that if one method doesn't work for a situation or parts aren't readily available...simply switch over.
    As close to a universal design as I've seen (in my limited experience)

    I'm sure someone will bring up some pen from the early 1900s that they believe fits the bill better that only rich people can afford...
    But I have no experience with those vintage pens nor the desire to.
    To me, the Noodlers Ahab is universal, affordable and easily serviceable.
    I think you might enjoy restoring Esterbrook FP's for the very reasons you listed above. Everything is replaceable and interchangable using a parts pen. New sacs, shellac, j bar, jewels, and such are available. They are inexpensive and work beautifully.

    I feel the Lamy Al-Star also fits your discription since nibs are replaceable, cartridges and converters are options, and the metal material makes is durable. Cost is variable, but mine was less than $20.

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    Detman101 (September 3rd, 2020)

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