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Thread: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Here's one that is a bit perplexing but maybe not uncommon.

    I've got more pens inked than I need, probably more than I should. However, in addition to many of my regular, loved users, I've had good luck in the past year or so with new purchases that really hit the mark. As such, I enjoy so many of them and it allows me a wide array of inks and lines that I've kept them inked up. In recent days, however, I've also upped my correspondence and have been noticing something regarding the depth of color of the ink at various points of writing.

    I haven't kept any careful notes to compare the inks, but at least a half dozen pens have done this: start out bold and dark(er) and after about a paragraph, lighten up noticeably and stay that way. I have a habit (in letters) of writing each page with a different pen and ink, so I can often see it a couple of times in one letter. Starts out bold of hue, then grows a bit fainter. Often I think the 2nd tone is closer to what the ink is.

    I'm fairly certain it is obvious: when the pen sits (most are horizontal), the ink in the feed tends to concentrate, maybe even evaporate a bit. Once the initial flow is written off, the ink flowing next is less dense and more like what one would expect. Honestly, I've just not noticed it to any extent before (and that is many years) but I may have just not been observant. Or writing as much. Or as many pens inked. I think the first thing I'll try to note is if this happens with any pens stored nib-up; if not, I'll know it has much to due with flat storage.

    Just wondering if anyone else ever has this minor issue?
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    In general mine start out wet and dry up a it, which I always assumed was a result of writing faster than when I am "trying out a pen or ink." And I think I always write faster in real life than when trying a pen. Once I start going, I have had a feeling the ink can't keep up with the speed I am writing at in order to give full amount . . . You hypothesis makes sense. I kind of assumed, ink sitting there waiting to go and then, wait . . . not so fast please!
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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Yep. I see the same thing, almost always with vintage pens and ebonite feeds.

    I also see the opposite. When I transport my pens to work in my bag, they sit in a case nib up. If the first thing I do after I unpack at my desk is start writing notes, the first couple of lines are much drier. Then, as the feed soaks up more ink, the line becomes a little darker and wetter. If, however, I do something else first, like deal with emails, by the time I pick the pen up from its horizontal position, it writes normally.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    My handwriting sometimes changes over the course of a letter. The lines grow further apart and less disciplined, though I haven't noticed a change in hand pressure on the nib. Maybe I've lost interest in what I'm writing at times? ;-)

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Maybe I've lost interest in what I'm writing at times? ;-)
    I do hope not.
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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Here's one that is a bit perplexing but maybe not uncommon.

    I've got more pens inked than I need, probably more than I should. However, in addition to many of my regular, loved users, I've had good luck in the past year or so with new purchases that really hit the mark. As such, I enjoy so many of them and it allows me a wide array of inks and lines that I've kept them inked up. In recent days, however, I've also upped my correspondence and have been noticing something regarding the depth of color of the ink at various points of writing.

    I haven't kept any careful notes to compare the inks, but at least a half dozen pens have done this: start out bold and dark(er) and after about a paragraph, lighten up noticeably and stay that way. I have a habit (in letters) of writing each page with a different pen and ink, so I can often see it a couple of times in one letter. Starts out bold of hue, then grows a bit fainter. Often I think the 2nd tone is closer to what the ink is.

    I'm fairly certain it is obvious: when the pen sits (most are horizontal), the ink in the feed tends to concentrate, maybe even evaporate a bit. Once the initial flow is written off, the ink flowing next is less dense and more like what one would expect. Honestly, I've just not noticed it to any extent before (and that is many years) but I may have just not been observant. Or writing as much. Or as many pens inked. I think the first thing I'll try to note is if this happens with any pens stored nib-up; if not, I'll know it has much to due with flat storage.

    Just wondering if anyone else ever has this minor issue?
    I have seen what you describe, but never thought of it as "an issue."

    My pens concentrate ink inside their feeds while they lie horizontally on my desk or table, whether inside sleeves or not. It's a fact of life that they will all do this. Once the ink starts to flow from the converter or piston, the saturation of the ink may change. It can change significantly.

    This will depend on how much evaporation has happened. It might not only be restricted to the feed that was full of ink. The ink in the converter will sometimes have evaporated too. I can fill several of my pens with ink, and within a couple of weeks or so there might be a mere trace or "muddy puddle" left inside the converter.

    It can depend on how saturated the ink was to start with, or how well the cap fits and seals onto the pen. However, IMHO, it's typical rather than unusual.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    With my Pilot Custom 823 (fine) this never happens. The ink is always Iro Tsuki-yo. Starts off and finishes the same colour. However, when using a broader nib (like a stub or italic) I do notice this effect of lightening colour as the writing session goes on, but usually this only happens on Rhodia paper. Leading to the idea that this kind of paper (or whatever it is finished with) dries a nib out more quickly, The effect never occurs on Tomoegawa paper, in my experience. For completion, pens are stored upright or horizontal, though either way has no additional effect, again IME.

    Overall, for me the effect is a function of the paper rather than feed saturation/evaporation.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; August 26th, 2020 at 03:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Here's one that is a bit perplexing but maybe not uncommon.

    I've got more pens inked than I need, probably more than I should. However, in addition to many of my regular, loved users, I've had good luck in the past year or so with new purchases that really hit the mark. As such, I enjoy so many of them and it allows me a wide array of inks and lines that I've kept them inked up. In recent days, however, I've also upped my correspondence and have been noticing something regarding the depth of color of the ink at various points of writing.

    I haven't kept any careful notes to compare the inks, but at least a half dozen pens have done this: start out bold and dark(er) and after about a paragraph, lighten up noticeably and stay that way. I have a habit (in letters) of writing each page with a different pen and ink, so I can often see it a couple of times in one letter. Starts out bold of hue, then grows a bit fainter. Often I think the 2nd tone is closer to what the ink is.

    I'm fairly certain it is obvious: when the pen sits (most are horizontal), the ink in the feed tends to concentrate, maybe even evaporate a bit. Once the initial flow is written off, the ink flowing next is less dense and more like what one would expect. Honestly, I've just not noticed it to any extent before (and that is many years) but I may have just not been observant. Or writing as much. Or as many pens inked. I think the first thing I'll try to note is if this happens with any pens stored nib-up; if not, I'll know it has much to due with flat storage.

    Just wondering if anyone else ever has this minor issue?
    Happens all the time. I generally just live with it. It does not occur with every ink and every pen, but the pens in use are stored nib-up, in a glass.

    (And here I thought this would be a review of an ink called Shout First Indoor Voice Later. Dang.)
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Not really noticing this effect on Stalogy or Hobonichi paper. Occasionally the reverse — some pens take a little while to get going. In general, though, consistent (and illegible) colour from one paragraph to the next.

    I would totally go for an ink called Shout First, Indoor Voice Later.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    I've noticed this effect with some of my pens. For me it often happens in the same writing session, with the same pen and ink if I pause for fifteen to thirty seconds (taking notes during meetings, for example). I wondered at it, surmising it had to do with collecting ink in the feed. If you store the inked-up pen horizontally (like I do most of my pens, eye-droppers are nib-up), the ink seemed to saturate the feed and be ready at full flow. After writing for a while, it felt like I was writing the feed through and was now pulling from the reservoir. Pausing during the writing would let the feed catch up a bit.

    Granted that was just my guess.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Surprisingly, the Lamy Joy 1.5 that has been inked for weeks with a craptastic J. Herbin sparkle ink starts and behaves perfectly every time. Otherwise, the Pelikan starts like a fire hose with its ordinary M nib whatever the ink while the others mostly behave somewhere in between.
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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    This has happened to me too. More noticeable on some pens and some inks. Was happening to my Hemisphere with Waterman Bleu Mystère and with my Pilot Stargazer with RO Black Violet.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowMovingTarget View Post
    I've noticed this effect with some of my pens. For me it often happens in the same writing session, with the same pen and ink if I pause for fifteen to thirty seconds (taking notes during meetings, for example). I wondered at it, surmising it had to do with collecting ink in the feed. If you store the inked-up pen horizontally (like I do most of my pens, eye-droppers are nib-up), the ink seemed to saturate the feed and be ready at full flow. After writing for a while, it felt like I was writing the feed through and was now pulling from the reservoir. Pausing during the writing would let the feed catch up a bit.

    Granted that was just my guess.
    This is what I'm thinking also.
    I too have noticed this, but only with pens I've used very recently.
    Most of the time it's a pitiful dry start from a inked and neglected pen.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    I’ve found it frequently in vintage and modern pens, but most noticeably in the recent hot weather here in the UK- I’d assumed that evaporation from the feed accounted for it.
    Some days, it's hardly worth chewing through the leather straps....

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Now that it's been mentioned, I'm seeing it just about everywhere: in my own notes, in pen pal letters, and I can't un-see it.
    My other pen is a Montblanc.

    And my other blog is a tumblr!


    And my latest ebook, for spooky wintery reading:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CM2NGSSD

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin View Post
    Now that it's been mentioned, I'm seeing it just about everywhere: in my own notes, in pen pal letters, and I can't un-see it.
    I sincerely hope I have not opened the door to a world of pain for you.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    I thought of this thread again yesterday. On my last trip to the US I bought a bottle of Vinta Sirena ink from Vanness.

    When I filled a pen and wrote with it I was disappointed and found it a much lighter shade than I'm usually happy with. So the uncapped bottle, covered with a piece of coffee filter paper, went onto the windowsill for a couple of weeks so that it could evaporate some water. That worked reasonably well and the ink became a more saturated green shade that I preferred.

    A few days ago I thoroughly cleaned out a green marbled Waterman Hemisphere with Preface 18ct nib that had completely evaporated away a partial converter full of J.Herbin Emeraude de Chivor. It has a tendency to do this so it's converter is never completely filled with any ink.

    Once it was dry I filled it with my Vinta Sirena. By the time I use it for writing a letter, I'm hoping it will have become an even more saturated green. Fingers crossed.
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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I thought of this thread again yesterday. On my last trip to the US I bought a bottle of Vinta Sirena ink from Vanness.

    When I filled a pen and wrote with it I was disappointed and found it a much lighter shade than I'm usually happy with. So the uncapped bottle, covered with a piece of coffee filter paper, went onto the windowsill for a couple of weeks so that it could evaporate some water. That worked reasonably well and the ink became a more saturated green shade that I preferred.

    A few days ago I thoroughly cleaned out a green marbled Waterman Hemisphere with Preface 18ct nib that had completely evaporated away a partial converter full of J.Herbin Emeraude de Chivor. It has a tendency to do this so it's converter is never completely filled with any ink.

    Once it was dry I filled it with my Vinta Sirena. By the time I use it for writing a letter, I'm hoping it will have become an even more saturated green. Fingers crossed.
    Similar to that trick from the thread about Pilot Blue-Black ink at 200%. I just received a bottle of Pilot Blue-Black, and you've reminded me to try the evaporation trick with a sample.

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    Default Re: Shouting first, "indoor voice" later?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowMovingTarget View Post
    Similar to that trick from the thread about Pilot Blue-Black ink at 200%. I just received a bottle of Pilot Blue-Black, and you've reminded me to try the evaporation trick with a sample.
    Yes go for it as it's a good idea. I'm also happy with a bottle of Parker Quink that I've evaporated into something that looks much better.
    (Just in case you have cats though, remember to put it somewhere they can't access. : )
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