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Thread: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    I didn't read much of this because the first thing I got to made me stop and say done.

    "This little poker/tail thingie does not come on any ebonite feed that I've seen in the size that's on the plastic housing. I know that the little poker\tail thingie is part of the ink-transduction system that pushes the ink along from the converter up the feed and onto the nib via capillary action."

    The breather tube has nothing to do with getting ink to the nib, it is there for filling.

    I'll read more later
    Thats kewl...but the stock feed on this C/C designed pen has a tail that sticks out the section housing the same way that breather tube in the photo does.
    I'm certain that the little breather tube had a wholly different function in the feeds it was created for...but we're not thinking "Stock" here.
    We are creating.
    New ways for new plays...the old uses for things will be used for new flings!

    I explained earlier that when I put the ebonite feed in the C/C-built housing, the ink didn't transmit to the feed. This is because there was not a low enough amount of surface tension in the ink to allow it to pass through the C/C nipple-hole in the section housing to get to the feed. Ink can't move...air can't move...no glug-glug-glug...it's elementary watson!

    Even left it sitting for hours to try and let gravity do it's work..nothing.
    Tapped on the side of the converter...nothing. Bone dry feed the whole time.
    So I primed it with the converter, and it worked...til the feed ran dry...then nothing in the hand but Desert sand my man!

    With the "tail" added to the feed the ink now transmits to the ebonite feed from the converter and the fountain pen juices flow!
    All fine but a breather tube has nothing to do with getting ink to the feed.

    Still need to read more.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    I didn't read much of this because the first thing I got to made me stop and say done.

    "This little poker/tail thingie does not come on any ebonite feed that I've seen in the size that's on the plastic housing. I know that the little poker\tail thingie is part of the ink-transduction system that pushes the ink along from the converter up the feed and onto the nib via capillary action."

    The breather tube has nothing to do with getting ink to the nib, it is there for filling.

    I'll read more later
    Thats kewl...but the stock feed on this C/C designed pen has a tail that sticks out the section housing the same way that breather tube in the photo does.
    I'm certain that the little breather tube had a wholly different function in the feeds it was created for...but we're not thinking "Stock" here.
    We are creating.
    New ways for new plays...the old uses for things will be used for new flings!

    I explained earlier that when I put the ebonite feed in the C/C-built housing, the ink didn't transmit to the feed. This is because there was not a low enough amount of surface tension in the ink to allow it to pass through the C/C nipple-hole in the section housing to get to the feed. Ink can't move...air can't move...no glug-glug-glug...it's elementary watson!

    Even left it sitting for hours to try and let gravity do it's work..nothing.
    Tapped on the side of the converter...nothing. Bone dry feed the whole time.
    So I primed it with the converter, and it worked...til the feed ran dry...then nothing in the hand but Desert sand my man!

    With the "tail" added to the feed the ink now transmits to the ebonite feed from the converter and the fountain pen juices flow!
    All fine but a breather tube has nothing to do with getting ink to the feed.

    Still need to read more.
    Well, the metal tail I added isn't a breather tube technically...just a conductor/transmitter.

    My results prove otherwise.
    Last edited by Detman101; August 27th, 2020 at 06:51 AM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Well, the metal tail I added isn't a breather tube technically...just a conductor/transmitter.

    My results prove otherwise.

    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, what we're dealing with here is a successful cartridge/converter nipple implant.

    I'd be a little concerned about that paperclip rusting. Might produce some interesting ink discoloration effects over time.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    Well, the metal tail I added isn't a breather tube technically...just a conductor/transmitter.

    My results prove otherwise.

    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, what we're dealing with here is a successful cartridge/converter nipple implant.

    I'd be a little concerned about that paperclip rusting. Might produce some interesting ink discoloration effects over time.
    Hmmm...very VERY good point.
    I hadn't considered that.

    I will definitely have to find a replacement that is hydroscopic and small enough to get in that hole.
    Wish I could make an ebonite toothpick...lol That would be perfect.
    You know what...I'll try making just that over the weekend! A super thin rod of ebonite small enough to fit in the hole for the housing nipple but leave room for ink to wick through.

    This is going to put my 10x loupe to full on use...lol

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    glad you got it working.

    I appreciate your attitude and willingness to eff with it until it works the way you want it to.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by manoeuver View Post
    glad you got it working.

    I appreciate your attitude and willingness to eff with it until it works the way you want it to.
    Thank you so much!!

    Your support is greatly appreciated, without everyone here it would have been a LOT harder.
    I always have wild ideas, but having a bunch of wise experienced people to bounce them off of is what gets the job figured out.
    Last edited by Detman101; August 27th, 2020 at 10:46 AM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    I pointed out the website in a post last week, but I would suggest reading articles on feeds on the website devoted to Fountain Pen Design. You may find it to be useful.

    The feed and breather tube shown in the OP are for a Parker Vacumatic. The breather tube is designed to help get ink into the pen, not from the ink reservoir. Vacumatics fill incrementally, up to the top of the breather tube. The same for a Waterman Inkview, and for many Eversharp Skylines. The end of the feed has to be exposed directly to the ink for the feed to work in the pen. The breather tube connects to a hole that comes up under the feed. With a wide open tube like that, it's capacity to carry ink to the nib is minimal.

    Cartridge/converter pens have an insert or extension that goes from the end of the feed through the breather tube into the cartridge or converter. This has one or two very fine slits to carry the ink, and a wider space at the top to allow ink back into the pen. The metal or plastic tube that is on the barrel end of a nib assembly is the piercing tube, there to punch the hole in the cartridge, or dislodge a plug, and it also holds the cartridge or converter in position. The actual work of carrying the ink through the tube to the rest of the feed and ultimately to the nib is done by the insert (on Sheaffer HR feeds) or the extension/tail on plastic feeds.

    The paperclip will rust. If you want to keep using that feed, look for a vintage Sheaffer feed with a hard rubber insert. They were used in many pens, including the Imperials and early NN pens. You may be able to get it to fit into the end of the Vacumatic feed that you are using. IF it works, you'll find that ink flow is much more consistent and better regulated. Sheaffer drilled their feeds nearly to the front end of the feed, and the ink flow was conducted up through a slit in the top of the feed that ran almost the entire length.

    This image shows a Sheaffer Imperial feed - the insert sticking out to the right pulls out. Others in earlier feeds found in the Balance and 50s open nib pens are a bit fatter. Note the flat top to the insert which allows air back into the pen, and the narrow slit to carry the ink.
    Last edited by Ron Z; August 27th, 2020 at 10:49 AM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    I pointed out the website in a post last week, but I would suggest reading articles on feeds on the website devoted to Fountain Pen Design. You may find it to be useful.

    The feed and breather tube shown in the OP are for a Parker Vacumatic. The breather tube is designed to help get ink into the pen, not from the ink reservoir. Vacumatics fill incrementally, up to the top of the breather tube. The same for a Waterman Inkview, and for many Eversharp Skylines. The end of the feed has to be exposed directly to the ink for the feed to work in the pen. The breather tube connects to a hole that comes up under the feed. With a wide open tube like that, it's capacity to carry ink to the nib is minimal.

    Cartridge/converter pens have an insert or extension that goes from the end of the feed through the breather tube into the cartridge or converter. This has one or two very fine slits to carry the ink, and a wider space at the top to allow ink back into the pen. The metal or plastic tube that is on the barrel end of a nib assembly is the piercing tube, there to punch the hole in the cartridge, or dislodge a plug. The actual work of carrying the ink through the tube to the rest of the feed and ultimately to the nib is done by the insert (on Sheaffer HR feeds) or the extension/tail on plastic feeds.

    The paperclip will rust. If you want to keep using that feed, look for a vintage Sheaffer feed with a hard rubber insert. They were used in many pens, including the Imperials and early NN pens. You may be able to get it to fit into the end of the Vacumatic feed that you are using. IF it works, you'll find that ink flow is much more consistent and better regulated. Sheaffer drilled their feeds nearly to the front end of the feed, and the ink flow was conducted up through a slit in the top of the feed that ran almost the entire length.

    This image shows a Sheaffer Imperial feed - the insert sticking out to the right pulls out. Others in earlier feeds found in the Balance and 50s open nib pens are a bit fatter. Note the flat top to the insert which allows air back into the pen, and the narrow slit to carry the ink.
    Ooooooohhhh...that looks to be the bees knees my friend!! THAT is the EXACT thing I was talking about!!
    It has all the same attributes as the little tail on my stock plastic feed for this pen!!

    I will see if I can find one of those on Ebay later today!!
    THANK YOU!!!
    Last edited by Detman101; August 27th, 2020 at 10:52 AM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Argh...this is going to be a tough one.
    Closest I've found so far is a link posted here: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...e-feed-insert/
    Someone ordered a set of 5 of them back in 2015 from somewhere unknown.
    I'm not dropping 40 dollars on an ebay pen to get one of these. I'll build one first...lol.
    That or keep replacing the paper clip bit.
    Maybe i'll find some stainless steel to fit in there...maybe another section of syringe needle, but thicker this time.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    I need to find one of these... (Sheaffer No-Nonsense feed)



    And molest it for it's tube...
    Last edited by Detman101; August 27th, 2020 at 11:21 AM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Teri at Peyton Street might be able to help.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    I need to find one of these... (Sheaffer No-Nonsense feed)



    And molest it for it's tube...
    those pens are plentiful and cheap.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    I need to find one of these... (Sheaffer No-Nonsense feed) And molest it for it's tube...
    That's a plastic NN feed. A bit of a different animal in the way it's assembled. Just the skinny insert pulls out on the hard rubber (HR) feed.

    There is a post I did on another board pinned in the repair forum with an exploded view of the Sheaffer Imperial feed, and plastic VS hard rubber. Sheaffer used the same basic principle for the plastic NN and Imperial feeds VS the HR NN and Imperial feeds. Take a look at the pictures of the disassembled plastic feed, and you'll see what I mean. The hard rubber feed is first, the plastic below.

    Look for a beater Craftsman pen, or an open nib fat touchdown pen for an insert... or look for a used NN fountain pen. The plastic feeds always have two slits on the bottom.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Detman101 View Post
    I need to find one of these... (Sheaffer No-Nonsense feed) And molest it for it's tube...
    That's a plastic NN feed. A bit of a different animal in the way it's assembled. Just the skinny insert pulls out on the hard rubber (HR) feed.

    There is a post I did on another board pinned in the repair forum with an exploded view of the Sheaffer Imperial feed, and plastic VS hard rubber. Sheaffer used the same basic principle for the plastic NN and Imperial feeds VS the HR NN and Imperial feeds. Take a look at the pictures of the disassembled plastic feed, and you'll see what I mean. The hard rubber feed is first, the plastic below.

    Look for a beater Craftsman pen, or an open nib fat touchdown pen for an insert... or look for a used NN fountain pen. The plastic feeds always have two slits on the bottom.
    Ahhhh...okay! Will do!
    Thank You!

    Welp...back to the analyzation table.
    Yesterday I had two fabulously wet and working Flex pens...Today I have one.
    Elegy doesn't seem to want to feed the ink through enough to even flex-write a little and ink flow is noticeably reduced to the point where writing normally looks all pale and washed out.
    What the hell happened?
    :cry2:
    I don't get it...I just don't get it...Where did everything go wrong...and why?

    There has to be an explanation...
    When the paper-clip/tail was long...with an interference fit in the pen/converter the ink flowed perfectly.
    I trim the paper-clip/tail shorter so it's not hurting the plunger of the converter...the feed runs dry.

    This is sooo frustrating....argh!!
    Last edited by Detman101; August 27th, 2020 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Don't take this as being critical of your efforts. Some of the methods you're trying are ones tried a century ago, and some were used by the lower end pen companies. Actually, more then a century ago. The "advanced" designs of first LE Waterman, and then George Parker were the first successful fountain pens, and the reason why fountain pens took off. Their pens worked, the others, not so much. It's interesting to look at the evolution of feeds from the late 1800s, then the changes that came in, in the 1920s, and then the 30s and later as both Sheaffer and Parker feeds became more refined, and the collector fins became finer with more of them. The slits in the feed in particular controlled the ink better. I think that starting with the feeds in the Balance pens, Sheaffer made some of the best in the industry. They had very good, reliable flow. Parker's 51 of course is in a class by itself, but it also had a lot of very fine collector fins, and a single slit in the feed.

    The broader my exposure to verity of pens and designs, the greater my respect for what Sheaffer and Parker were able to accomplish 80 or 100 years ago.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Great...now the 456 doesn't work unless I put the original feed and nib back in.
    This is complete and utter bs.
    Why is it so damned hard to have a functioning FLEX PEN!?!?!?!?!

    Now I have to put BOTH pens back to their stock plastic feeds until I can figure out what the hell went wrong...
    This is so damned stupid and there's no logical explanation for any of it other than everything these days is designed to fail once you change from the original manufacturers specs.
    I was born at the wrong time...This isn't innovation...it's corporate and industry slavery.
    "Buy our product...use our product...but don't change our product...or you can't use our product!"

    This is such bs....That or I'm a complete fkn moron and broke both pens somehow that I don't even understand...

    Waving the white flag for today...I give up.



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    Unhappy Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Well...you guys were right.
    It rusted!!!
    Just that quick too...overnight.

    In my frustration and bewilderment I went back over this thread to see what everyone said...and you guys saved the day again!

    I switched back to the modified plastic feed until I get a proper ebonite or plastic tail-piece for the ebonite feed.

    So now I'm back to having at least one flex pen. My Elegy...never let me down again.




    I guess I'll have to send this pos plastic penbbs-456 off to someone to fix...this broken plastic bs is beyond my ability to figure out.
    I did everything...I cleaned it from top to bottom, re-heatset the feed and nib, lightly greased all the fittings and o-rings...And still...

    No ink flow.

    I dont' get it...how the hell can running that pelikan 4001 ink thru the pen totally destroy it?
    I am absolutely and completely baffled.
    Last edited by Detman101; August 27th, 2020 at 07:12 PM.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Did the pen never work? i.e. As it was originally designed to do with it's original plastic feed?

    I'm really sorry to say that I've read all of your threads but still don't understand the absolute requirement for an ebonite feed to be "shoe-horned" in to replace the plastic feed, if the pen was manufactured and started life by working with it's plastic feed.

    Loads of pens are made with plastic feeds that work. Some pens are still around with ebonite feeds that work. Maybe you just haven't found the right pen yet?

    IMHO an ebonite feed is not the holy grail. I write all of the time with loads of different inks and I don't think any of my pens has an ebonite feed.

    Life is too short. There must be a pen that will suit your purposes as it's manufactured. When you find it you will know and you'll be happy to write with it exactly as it is.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Glad Ron reminded me a breather tube is for filling and not getting ink to the nib...

    Sorry your wire rusted.

    I still haven’t finished reading.

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    Default Re: HELP REQ: The little straw...in the butt end of the feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Did the pen never work? i.e. As it was originally designed to do with it's original plastic feed?

    I'm really sorry to say that I've read all of your threads but still don't understand the absolute requirement for an ebonite feed to be "shoe-horned" in to replace the plastic feed, if the pen was manufactured and started life by working with it's plastic feed.

    Loads of pens are made with plastic feeds that work. Some pens are still around with ebonite feeds that work. Maybe you just haven't found the right pen yet?

    IMHO an ebonite feed is not the holy grail. I write all of the time with loads of different inks and I don't think any of my pens has an ebonite feed.

    Life is too short. There must be a pen that will suit your purposes as it's manufactured. When you find it you will know and you'll be happy to write with it exactly as it is.
    Chrissy,


    Elegy (brass pen) came from the builder with a plastic feed. However, that won't supply enough ink fast enough to support calligraphy.
    This is where the requirement and drive for Ebonite parts comes into play. It is the only way to transport ink to the nib fast enough to emulate the pens of old and their ability to provide fast, flowing, flex-writing in a portable package.

    I know others have said to just have a separate pen for every task. However, I don't operate like that. I live out of my backpack most days and I am not a collector like most people here. Everything has weight...more weight is bad.
    Everything I carry has at least a dual-purpose. If it doesn't, I don't keep it.

    My fountain pen WILL be capable of flex-writing and normal writing...whichever it winds up being. Maybe the "Visconti - Opera Master Polynesia" is the fix I need...lol.
    (yeah...and then my wife will fix me with a bullet lol)
    If this cannot be...then I will go back to ballpoints and leave the inky goodness to you all.

    I have a feeling there is a way.
    However, I am starting to feel it's going to cost me hundreds of dollars to get someone to either sell me a flex pen...or have a high-priced "nibmeister" to fix/mod a pen into being what I need.

    Either way, Im losing.
    My mind
    My money
    And my patience...

    Sent from my LG-M210 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Detman101; August 28th, 2020 at 07:23 AM.

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