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Thread: "Springy"?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Empty_of_Clouds's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    I don't go in for endless gradations of nibs. There are nibs that are nails, and there are nibs that are not nails. Even that is too much for me, as I don't have any preference for any kind of nib (with regard to this property), and have enough skill and training to use all varieties equally. (Don't normally blow my own trumpet - being English you see - but I am being educated that this is the modern way, so there it is)

    So, if pushed (joke intended), a springy nib is one that is not a nail.
    Be a little more open into accepting other viewpoints, if you can, as it really deepens the experience. - Jon Szanto

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  2. #22
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Being an engineer, it is my sworn duty to overcomplicate everything possible so I have a mental model of nibs in terms of width vs pressure reaponse curves.

    I would also call the M205 steel nib bouncy or springy with some give to it. I had a lot of challenge tuning that nib to where I liked it. The amount of line variation vs pressure seems to have a very narrow band making it seem hypersensitive to me. Slight pressure variations result in width changes from faint XXF to M. Makes me writing look even worse than normal and it requires lots of concentration to adjust to it.

    My Montblanc 221 had a bouncy nib and can exhibits line variation between upstrokes and downstrokes without any special concentration, from faint needlepoint to EF. I like that effect. I feels like I could increase pressure forever but I know if I do the thin hood will crack and the nib will spring.

    The triumph nib on my Skripsert that I'm listing exhibits similar variation but I feel it has a sort of progressive rate where it gets harder and harder to get more flex. It feels safer. My 51s and 45s act like that, too, though maybe ramp up force required less dramatically. Each of these three have very different nib shapes, though.

    I have a couple of Duofolds and a first iteration Balance that have very firm nibs with little line variation even with a fair bit of pressure. The nib on my Hemisphere seems similarly firm as well.

  3. #23
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    "Bouncy"?

  4. #24
    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    In no particular order:

    * Nail
    * Firm
    * Toothy
    * Soft
    * Springy
    * Elastic
    * Semi-flex
    * Flex(y)
    * Wet-noodle
    * Brushy
    * Wet
    * Dry
    * Gusher

    I treat all of them as completely subjective. Except when the term "firm" is conjoined with "Sheaffer Triumph": then I know what I am in forů
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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  6. #25
    Senior Member SchaumburgSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by eachan View Post
    Are soft and springy the same thing? I would use one of those words to describe a nib with tines that bend with only the slightest pressure but doesn't give line variation as the tines don't separate. My Platinum 3776 Soft Fine is a modern example but I often come across such nibs in the Swans I restore.
    Hi Eachan,

    yes, I have seen such nibs, springy like a leaf spring in old cars...
    Typically a much too flat surface between breather hole and tipping makes that - I call it flat foreship effect. ;-)
    The Swan one in my avatar once was like that, after getting it's shape back it turned into a full flex nib. :-)

    Best
    Jens
    .................................................. .................................................. .

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/136145166@N02/albums

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  8. #26
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SchaumburgSwan View Post
    Typically a much too flat surface between breather hole and tipping makes that - I call it flat foreship effect. ;-)
    That is the classic profile - that flat upper deck - found on Platinum pens (like the 3776) and Nakaya nibs. Tines move up, not apart.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

  9. #27
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    "Bouncy"?
    I should've just used "springy"

  10. #28
    Senior Member SchaumburgSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SchaumburgSwan View Post
    Typically a much too flat surface between breather hole and tipping makes that - I call it flat foreship effect. ;-)
    That is the classic profile - that flat upper deck - found on Platinum pens (like the 3776) and Nakaya nibs. Tines move up, not apart.
    Dear Jon,

    if it is intended, fine. Nothing bad about it there. Flat upper deck describes it well.
    For vintage flex nibs it is a defect imo, not a classic profile. So are Swan, Waterman or Onoto etc. nibs... be they made 1888 or 1950...

    Best regards
    Jens
    Last edited by SchaumburgSwan; September 11th, 2020 at 10:48 PM.
    .................................................. .................................................. .

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/136145166@N02/albums

  11. #29
    Senior Member AzJon's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    "Bouncy"?
    I should've just used "springy"
    Eh, I prefer "bouncy" since we already have the term "sprung" or "spring" in our lexicon.

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  13. #30
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SchaumburgSwan View Post
    if it is intended, fine. Nothing bad about it there. Flat upper deck describes it well.
    For vintage flex nibs it is a defect imo, not a classic profile. So are Swan, Waterman or Onoto etc. nibs... be they made 1888 or 1950...

    Best regards
    Jens
    Yes, this is very clearly a design decision and implementation and for their nibs, it works very well. I'm not suggesting that if somehow a nib has a flattened top it will perform optimally - only if it was made to.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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  15. #31
    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    "Bouncy"?
    I should've just used "springy"
    I thought bouncy, too.
    _____________
    To Miasto

  16. #32
    Junior Member eachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by SchaumburgSwan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SchaumburgSwan View Post
    Typically a much too flat surface between breather hole and tipping makes that - I call it flat foreship effect. ;-)
    That is the classic profile - that flat upper deck - found on Platinum pens (like the 3776) and Nakaya nibs. Tines move up, not apart.
    Dear Jon,

    if it is intended, fine. Nothing bad about it there. Flat upper deck describes it well.
    For vintage flex nibs it is a defect imo, not a classic profile. So are Swan, Waterman or Onoto etc. nibs... be they made 1888 or 1950...

    Best regards
    Jens
    We may differ there, Jens. I think it occurs too often in Swans to be a defect or accident of manufacture. I enjoy a springy nib and I believe our predecessors may have done so as well.

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  18. #33
    Senior Member grainweevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    In no particular order:

    * Nail
    * Firm
    * Toothy
    * Soft
    * Springy
    * Elastic
    * Semi-flex
    * Flex(y)
    * Wet-noodle
    * Brushy
    * Wet
    * Dry
    * Gusher

    I treat all of them as completely subjective. Except when the term "firm" is conjoined with "Sheaffer Triumph": then I know what I am in forů
    Yes, for some sellers I'm pretty sure their meanings go something like:

    Nail - I found it nib first stuck in a dart board.
    Firm - My pal Crusher couldn't shift it.
    Toothy - One or both tines' tipping missing
    Soft - Tried it. Bent it.
    Springy - Crusher can get it to lift off the feed a bit.
    Elastic - Tried it. Bent it. Sort of bent it back okay. You probably won't even notice if I take the picture from this angle.
    Semi-flex - Crusher got it to really lift off the feed.
    Flex(y) - I can get it to lift off the feed and here's a picture of me mashing the nib to prove it.
    Wet noodle - It's cracked.
    Brushy - It's cracked and bent.
    Wet - The tines are so far apart they're virtually in separate countries.
    Dry - It's clogged with old India ink.
    Gusher - There's a crack in the section.

    In the words of Paul Simon, you can call me Al.

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  20. #34
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    In no particular order:

    * Nail
    * Firm
    * Toothy
    * Soft
    * Springy
    * Elastic
    * Semi-flex
    * Flex(y)
    * Wet-noodle
    * Brushy
    * Wet
    * Dry
    * Gusher

    I treat all of them as completely subjective. Except when the term "firm" is conjoined with "Sheaffer Triumph": then I know what I am in forů
    Yes, for some sellers I'm pretty sure their meanings go something like:

    Nail - I found it nib first stuck in a dart board.
    Firm - My pal Crusher couldn't shift it.
    Toothy - One or both tines' tipping missing
    Soft - Tried it. Bent it.
    Springy - Crusher can get it to lift off the feed a bit.
    Elastic - Tried it. Bent it. Sort of bent it back okay. You probably won't even notice if I take the picture from this angle.
    Semi-flex - Crusher got it to really lift off the feed.
    Flex(y) - I can get it to lift off the feed and here's a picture of me mashing the nib to prove it.
    Wet noodle - It's cracked.
    Brushy - It's cracked and bent.
    Wet - The tines are so far apart they're virtually in separate countries.
    Dry - It's clogged with old India ink.
    Gusher - There's a crack in the section.

    Only some? Not many?
    Regards, Chrissy | My Blog: inkyfountainpens

  21. #35
    Senior Member grainweevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Given how many members of this forum have, do, and will sell pens, I'll stick with "some" for safety.
    In the words of Paul Simon, you can call me Al.

  22. #36
    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    All of which suggests that nib flex descriptions contain what a friend would call "puffery." I like the word "puffery." It has a nice happy sound to it, and also explains a lot of descriptions in pen listings the world over. It also reminds me of the dandelion patch in Bloom County.

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  24. #37
    Senior Member wingwiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Springy...........I always took it as some sellers trying distort the nib as having some flex? I have firm Sheaffers, Parkers, etc. that are "springy," yet are nails. 14k Parker 45's can be "springy" yet are not even semi-flex- although some of their wider nibs can be almost semi-flex- maybe bouncy at best?

    Springy should not be confused with soft either. Some of my old muscle cars back in the day had coil springs that were "springy,'........not soft, flexy, semi-flexy, etc.

    Webster's definition of Springy: SPRINGY, a. [from spring.]
    1. Elastic; possessing the power of recovering itself when bent or twisted.
    2. Having great elastic power.
    3. Having the power to leap; able to leap far.
    4. Abounding with springs or fountains; wet; spungy; as springy land.


    I thought this chart was pretty good and I have been collecting for almost 40 yrs.

    In no particular order:

    * Nail
    * Firm
    * Toothy
    * Soft
    * Springy?
    * Elastic
    * Semi-flex
    * Flex(y)
    * Wet-noodle
    * Brushy
    * Wet
    * Dry
    * Gusher
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  25. #38
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by wingwiper View Post
    ...[I]Webster's definition of Springy....
    I looked up the synonyms for "springy," one of which is flexible, which is why flex-seeking buyers are bound to meet disappointment. Still, as pointed out in a recent "meaning of restored" thread in the other place, it is incumbent on buyers to find out more before handing over their cash.

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  27. #39
    Senior Member wingwiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by wingwiper View Post
    ...[I]Webster's definition of Springy....
    I looked up the synonyms for "springy," one of which is flexible, which is why flex-seeking buyers are bound to meet disappointment. Still, as pointed out in a recent "meaning of restored" thread in the other place, it is incumbent on buyers to find out more before handing over their cash.
    Amen brother......


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  28. #40
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Springy and flexible? To be springy a material has to have memory. A piece of string is flexible.

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