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Thread: "Springy"?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Yes, for some sellers I'm pretty sure their meanings go something like:

    Nail - I found it nib first stuck in a dart board.
    Firm - My pal Crusher couldn't shift it.
    Toothy - One or both tines' tipping missing
    Soft - Tried it. Bent it.
    Springy - Crusher can get it to lift off the feed a bit.
    Elastic - Tried it. Bent it. Sort of bent it back okay. You probably won't even notice if I take the picture from this angle.
    Semi-flex - Crusher got it to really lift off the feed.
    Flex(y) - I can get it to lift off the feed and here's a picture of me mashing the nib to prove it.
    Wet noodle - It's cracked.
    Brushy - It's cracked and bent.
    Wet - The tines are so far apart they're virtually in separate countries.
    Dry - It's clogged with old India ink.
    Gusher - There's a crack in the section.

    That is, hand's down, one of the funniest things I've ever read on a pen board! Thank you - I desperately needed a smile this morning.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

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  3. #42
    Senior Member wingwiper's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grainweevil View Post
    Yes, for some sellers I'm pretty sure their meanings go something like:

    Nail - I found it nib first stuck in a dart board.
    Firm - My pal Crusher couldn't shift it.
    Toothy - One or both tines' tipping missing
    Soft - Tried it. Bent it.
    Springy - Crusher can get it to lift off the feed a bit.
    Elastic - Tried it. Bent it. Sort of bent it back okay. You probably won't even notice if I take the picture from this angle.
    Semi-flex - Crusher got it to really lift off the feed.
    Flex(y) - I can get it to lift off the feed and here's a picture of me mashing the nib to prove it.
    Wet noodle - It's cracked.
    Brushy - It's cracked and bent.
    Wet - The tines are so far apart they're virtually in separate countries.
    Dry - It's clogged with old India ink.
    Gusher - There's a crack in the section.

    That is, hand's down, one of the funniest things I've ever read on a pen board! Thank you - I desperately needed a smile this morning.
    Too funny.........some of my Sheaffer conical nib pens I could play darts with
    The secret of getting ahead is getting started-- Mark Twain

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  5. #43
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by wingwiper View Post
    Springy...........I always took it as some sellers trying distort the nib as having some flex? I have firm Sheaffers, Parkers, etc. that are "springy," yet are nails. 14k Parker 45's can be "springy" yet are not even semi-flex- although some of their wider nibs can be almost semi-flex- maybe bouncy at best?

    Springy should not be confused with soft either. Some of my old muscle cars back in the day had coil springs that were "springy,'........not soft, flexy, semi-flexy, etc.

    Webster's definition of Springy: SPRINGY, a. [from spring.]
    1. Elastic; possessing the power of recovering itself when bent or twisted.
    2. Having great elastic power.
    3. Having the power to leap; able to leap far.
    4. Abounding with springs or fountains; wet; spungy; as springy land.

    But we are not talking about Webster's definition here, are we?

    The term springy here *in this discussion* is used within the context of a fountain pen nib, specifically when it's being used to write on paper.

    Are we then supposed to expect a nib to be able to leap before we can call it springy?

    Use the term bouncy, use the term soft, use the term springy. If the person asking or the one you try to explain don't get it, explain it in a sentence instead of a single term. Or better yet, show them a nail nib, and then a springy nib. That will avoid any confusion.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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  7. #44
    Senior Member manoeuver's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    "Springy" means something happens when one applies some undetermined amount of pressure, but one doesn't understand what is happening.
    it's a weasel word.

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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Weasel Word.....ha ha

  9. #46
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    When we talk about four wheel drive vehicles, trail rigs, we talk a lot about flex. Of the springs.

    Flex allows for the suspension to articulate over obstacles by keeping three or four tires in contact with the ground. More flex is better.



    And we measure it using a flex ramp. Either a 20° or 28°.

    The farther up the ramp you can travel, the better. RTI, Ramp Travel Index, is calculated by ramp travel divided by wheelbase x 10. Few stock rigs can score more than about 500 which isn't bad.



    But scoring 1000 or more takes some special coil springs, special suspension, usually on extreme built rock crawler trail rigs.



    But a few stock rigs can do it...



    As you can imagine, all springs flex but it is a question of spring rate—how much they flex.




    In Moab during Easter Jeep Safari you'll often see some insanely built rigs with really soft rate, extremely long travel springs. Great for off road but on the street they have to take the corners kinda easy. Never quite saw one this extreme though!

    Last edited by azkid; September 12th, 2020 at 07:38 PM.

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  11. #47
    Senior Member SchaumburgSwan's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by azkid View Post
    When we talk about four wheel drive vehicles, trail rigs, we talk a lot about flex. Of the springs.

    Flex allows for the suspension to articulate over obstacles by keeping three or four tires in contact with the ground. More flex is better.
    As you can imagine, all springs flex but it is a question of spring rate—how much they flex.
    ...
    Hi Azkid,

    aha, interesting - newer looked at that before!
    But I don't know much about off road cars...
    Thare have been some standard cars with flex, but that was imo more a bug than a feature - think of Mercedes-Benz cars of the 50s to 70s (in german called Pendelachse here).

    Best wishes
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  12. #48
    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post

    I submit that "springy" is another of those vague terms that a potential pen buyer had better clarify before sending payment. After all, a seller wouldn't want a buyer to confuse springy with semi-flex, right?
    As a person who is selling pens from time to time, I know that it is impossible to describe the grade of the elasticity of a nib in a scientific way. The best option to communicate about that is to post a writing sample.

    ps: I rather noticed that the word flexible is often heavily misused.

    C.

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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Flex is not something I understand the attraction?!

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    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Flex is not something I understand the attraction?!
    I guess it all depends what you use your fountain pens for. When I'm taking rapid notes during a meeting I don't need, nor want, any kind of flex. In fact, a very nice and smooth nail is what I need. For that purpose I use a Parker 51 or a vintage Pelikan with a DF nib. A "springy" M200 nib is as far as I can use. On other occasions I like to write slower, without pressure, and for that a semi flex pen is great. Also for signatures. Most of my vintage Pelikans are great for this purpose.

    Finally, I have no use for flex, super flex or wet noodles but I can understand that some folks like to use these nibs to write slowly and very deliberately. Spencerian anyone?

  16. #51
    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Flex is not something I understand the attraction?!
    It's the difference between writing that is functional and writing that is beautiful, as well. Variable-width scripts are a form of personal artistry. Surely you can see that some people value visual beauty, yes?
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Flex is not something I understand the attraction?!
    That's fine.

    But don't be surprised if further down the road you would change your mind on this.

    In this hobby, preferences and taste not only differ from person to person, but also changes over time.
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    Senior Member Pterodactylus's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    unique touch by Ptero Ptero, auf Flickr

    (Noodlers Ahab - flex EMF ..... Mystery Ink #31 provided by junglejim)


    Don´t get me wrong, I also can appreciate a nail FP and I think also a nail is a superior writing instrument compared to other writing devices.
    But a special nib (oblique, italic/stub, flex (in different degrees)) adds that certain something on top.

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  20. #54
    FPG Donor ♕ KrazyIvan's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Someone a while back suggested measuring how much force it takes to open the tines X amount of space. I thought that maybe it could be done by flexing the nib on a digital scale and measuring that in grams per mm of open tines. Less grams equals a softer nib. Just an idea.
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    Someone a while back suggested measuring how much force it takes to open the tines X amount of space. ...
    David Nishimura: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...ty-a-proposal/

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    Senior Member Ray-VIgo's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Flex is not something I understand the attraction?!
    I guess it all depends what you use your fountain pens for. When I'm taking rapid notes during a meeting I don't need, nor want, any kind of flex. In fact, a very nice and smooth nail is what I need. For that purpose I use a Parker 51 or a vintage Pelikan with a DF nib. A "springy" M200 nib is as far as I can use. On other occasions I like to write slower, without pressure, and for that a semi flex pen is great. Also for signatures. Most of my vintage Pelikans are great for this purpose.

    Finally, I have no use for flex, super flex or wet noodles but I can understand that some folks like to use these nibs to write slowly and very deliberately. Spencerian anyone?

    To some extent, I'm in the same boat. At my desk in the office, anything from nail to semi-flex is fine for me. I usually have a little time to pace myself. I usually have a firm or semi-flex old Sheaffer or Waterman in my hand (sometimes an old Pelikan too).

    At a hearing or at trial taking notes of live testimony, a smooth, fine nail of a nib is what i use because I'm writing in a hurry and my writing in that environment is pretty damned sloppy. I have a couple pens I reserve for this use because they have very forgiving nibs so I can write on a table, on a pad on my lap, etc. (old Sheaffer Lifetimes and Eversharp Skylines mostly).

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    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    When I was into fountain pens I was so comfused by these terms.
    Butterry
    Nails
    "Springy"
    Wet Noodle pens
    semi-flex. full flexible
    wet, Dry
    So it is after some times I leart the whole language and I can speak that too.
    Last edited by Cyril; September 14th, 2020 at 03:10 PM.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyIvan View Post
    Someone a while back suggested measuring how much force it takes to open the tines X amount of space. ...
    David Nishimura: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/fo...ty-a-proposal/
    I remember that. I think there was even a proposed Rube Goldberg contraption to perform measurement, though it went to that well-known place: nowhere.

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    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    I tried measuring a few of mine with digital scale, writing various size lines and graphing the result. It was kind of interesting and fun (for me at least).

    https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=242121
    Last edited by azkid; September 15th, 2020 at 06:23 PM.

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    Junior Member eachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Springy"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Flex is not something I understand the attraction?!
    I do understand the attraction. In fact for a long time all I had were flexible pens but in the end I came to the conclusion that I didn't use them particularly well. There is a particular skill in using flexible nibs. I don't have it and don't really wish to put the effort in to learning it, when most of the writing I do is practical and fast. I enjoy my fine nails so much more!

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