Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

[Jon Szanto]

Not trying to stir anything up...

Well, ok, I'll take you at your word.

But you've gone pretty hard on the OP, and if you read as the thread progressed he did clarify some of that, especially after I made clear to him I wasn't attacking. FWIW, I chalked most the (perceived) rancor as simply the problem of trying to put these concepts into words.

Let's not let a thread like this veer back into acrimony if possible - there is far too much unpleasantness in the world as it is.

[severian]

I'm certainly not looking to stir up acrimony.

I'll defend to the end the OP's right to say whatever he wants. But I don't think this is the forum to be casting cultural or racial value judgements--however inadvertently. How is that relevant to fountain pen collecting?

Benjamin Franklin was a great diplomat, and his "habit of modest diffidence" won him many friends among the ranks of his opponents.

But Franklin also changed over his life. He was originally a slaveowner whose papers ran slave auction advertisements. But he later became President of a abolitionist group--and wrote and published a pamphlet on educating and creating employment for former slaves. That was a pretty radical and offensive idea to most Americans at the time. Particularly coming from a former slaveowner himself. But he chose to express it courageously--and courteously.

If I was too harsh in pointing out the OP's assertions, let me apologize and say: I sincerely hope I misunderstood what you wrote. And welcome you to clarify it here.

[Jon Szanto]

I'm certainly not looking to stir up acrimony.

I'll defend to the end the OP's right to say whatever he wants. But I don't think this is the forum to be casting cultural or racial value judgements--however inadvertently. How is that relevant to fountain pen collecting?

Benjamin Franklin was a great diplomat, and his "habit of modest diffidence" won him many friends among the ranks of his opponents.

But Franklin also changed over his life. He was originally a slaveowner whose papers ran slave auction advertisements. But he later became President of a abolitionist group--and wrote and published a pamphlet on educating and creating employment for former slaves. That was a pretty radical and offensive idea to most Americans at the time. Particularly coming from a former slaveowner himself. But he chose to express it courageously--and courteously.

If I was too harsh in pointing out the OP's assertions, let me apologize and say: I sincerely hope I misunderstood what you wrote. And welcome you to clarify it here.

Severian, I am willing to bet that we are just writing past one another. I will also confess that I completely missed the cultural references in the OP, which are unfortunate under any circumstances. Musing about self- issues, I took as an aside. I'm fairly centered in my views and motivations and didn't take any direct offence, and by the time you had responded many others had remarked upon the community here and the willingness to be supportive and of good intent.

I know: I'm rambling. I am sorry for that. I mostly wanted to just cool any temperatures, and while I grieve with the loss of the firefighter in your anecdote, I don't know that anything has gone quite that far to warrant such a comparison. Just my take on it, and I've been very close to the fire situations (not on this particular go-around in California).

Lastly, the bit about Ben: I've had that quote for years and years as my sig - it was not placed there just for this conversation.

*****

I know you are new to the forum. It can be a very welcoming gathering of pen friends. I'd like it to be a good experience for you, and for all of us. Maybe take a moment and post in New Members thread and tell us a bit about yourself and your interests?

Peace.

[Ole Juul]

I must admit, some of the opinions expressed about the OP here are going over my head. Perhaps I'm stupid. Or maybe I just don't think like that. Anyway, It's got me stumped.