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Thread: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

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    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Why write with anything else?

    Well because lots of other makers made nibs with more character. My favorite nibs are on old Wahls and Montblancs. The KoP has some of the softness of my 1960s MB 24, but lacks the line variation of the Montblanc. To my knowledge, neither Sailor nor Pilot make an oblique, much less one with the crisp line variation that my 1950s Pelikans & MBs yield. I also enjoy a flex nib from time to time and again, neither Sailor nor Pilot make a nib that approaches my old Wahls in terms of flexibility.

    I do like Sailors and i regularly use two of mine. One is strictly business, the other is a stubbed KoP. It’s a great pen, but i don’t think it would keep my interest without the aftermarket nib work.

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    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    I think I have some collection of pens that are all basic favourite pens in some brands.
    When I started I added at least on or two from all brands. Seen they are all different charactoristic in differnt writing. I have several sailor and piolots and thay are all different.
    I like the fine line pens, so the Japanise pens are perfect pens. I like some Chinese pens. They are cheaper and some pens so rubish that thay are like disposable pens.
    End of the day I know what a vintage pen can add to your writing. They are very interesting pens and worth getting to know about. I never buy anything else now except a occasional good vintage that take my a attraction.

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    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by jace View Post
    After a long hiatus of using fountain pens when I was younger, I recently discovered fountain pens again; I guess life got in the way and I had to travel a lot so ballpoints/rollerballs made more sense. I have a calmer and steadier life now, so fountain pens just naturally emerged back into my life.

    Thanks to the immense resources we have online, and having the resources now to buy a variety of fountain pens, I have concluded that the only pens worth buying are those from Pilot and Sailor. I understand that other brands have other things to offer like style and other filling mechanisms, but purely from a nib quality standpoint, Pilot and Sailor are a few tiers above any other pen I've tried (in the same price range).

    If I had to start all over again I wouldn't waste a dime on other pens and just stick with Pilot and Sailor. And now I do.

    Is there anything else I am missing? (Sorry if this is a controversial thread. But I am new to this writing about FP's in a forum thing, so maybe it isn't.)

    Addendum: I guess I am at a point that I don't need convincing anymore but I am still curious what others think (maybe other people are less serious about the FP quality - I am insanely picky - but this is an FP forum after all), and I suppose this is somewhat personal, but also the differences in quality are so great that perhaps it is also somewhat objective. I am not Japanese, and I am not one of those people who's obsessed with Japanese culture; in fact I prefer European/American culture; but just in terms of fountain pens and other stationery in general, I find Japanese-made products to be superior, maybe because they actually still care about the quality. It's in their work ethic or pride or whatever. Whatever they are doing, it's working for the quality in their pens. I find that maybe in other pen brands, quality is an after-thought and profits come first. They just don't have that "pride in quality" ingrained in their culture or something; or perhaps they just don't have the skills/experience/knowledge to achieve that high quality yet.
    If such beliefs make you happy then great, however understand that you are missing out on the vast majority of truly wonderful writing experiences that are out there. Sure, my Sailor and Pilot fountain pens are nice but honestly they are no way superior to my fountain pens from Sheaffer, Parker, Waterman, Aurora, ST Dupont, Caran D'Ache, Graf Von Faber Castell, Eboya, Danitrio, Platinum, Ferrari da Varese, Yard-o-Led, Montegrappa, Venus, Onoto, Conway Stewart, OMAS ...

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    Senior Member SIR's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Not sure about Pilot, as i don't own any, but the 'only' reason i would have for choosing anything other than a Sailor would be for the flex nib experience...
    that said, Nakaya, Platinum, and Lamy all make pens and nibs which deliver a superfluous writing moment.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Only Pilot and Sailor ?

    Well, if the OP came to that conclusion, fine for him.

    Me, I prefer my different vintage pens

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    Not sure about Pilot, as i don't own any, but the 'only' reason i would have for choosing anything other than a Sailor would be for the flex nib experience...
    that said, Nakaya, Platinum, and Lamy all make pens and nibs which deliver a superfluous writing moment.
    Sailor make many "specialty"*nibs, but I don't think a flex nib is one of them.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    ...a superfluous writing moment.
    I'm not sure what that means, but I think I'll quote it from time to time! ;-)

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wahl View Post
    Only Pilot and Sailor ?

    Well, if the OP came to that conclusion, fine for him.

    Me, I prefer my different vintage pens
    Vintage pens are, or have been for me, a wonderful experience. I would not know a sailor from a pilot although both, I suppose, are engaged in logistics.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Thinking over the pens I have inked at the moment, I realized that three out of five of the true fountain pens with ink in them are Pilots, a Falcon with a soft medium nib, Custom Heritage 92 with an FM nib, and a MYU with, not really sure, but it writes like a fine or even extra fine.

    And then there's a Parker 180 (discontinued since the early 1980s) and an Eversharp Symphony, a true American vintage pen. Also an Esterbrook Dip-Less set with a nib from a Pelikan M200 series screwed into the Esterbrook holder.

    So if actions speak louder than words, there's definitely a liking for Pilots there, but also for vintage American pens. The 180 is a bit too recent to be considered vintage by most people, but was still made in the U.S.

    For me, there's no such thing as a boring nib, only ones that write well and ones that don't. I've tried stubs, and nibs with a bit of flex, and like writing with them while I'm doing it, but when I'm concentrating on the words and the thoughts behind them, any pen that doesn't distract me by misbehaving is fine.

    I have been trying a little sketching with fountain pens as a change in pace from pencil and charcoal, and I'm looking at what pen I'll ink next that might be good for drawing. One of my candidates is a no longer made version of the Pilot Elite, with a very fine "soft" nib. I'll probably fill it up after I use up the ink in my MYU.

    So yes, I guess I really do like Pilot pens, but they're not all that I like. I've also been thinking that it's time I broke out one of my vintage Conklins again, or one of the Moores, or the Waterman's 12 PSF (from the WWI era). So many pens.
    Last edited by Kaputnik; September 24th, 2020 at 04:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    @kaputnik

    I like this line: "For me, there's no such thing as a boring nib, only ones that write well and ones that don't."

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    I haven't tried many Sailor pens but honestly none stick out for me. I love Pilot nibs I've used: Kakuno, Metropolitan, Stargazer, at least.

    The SEF nib on the Falcon didn't work out but I remember being impressed with the same pen in a fine.

    If you're happy with two brands great, not here to judge. But knowing what I now know, I would hate for someone to miss out on at least trying other nice nibs, particularly various vintage Parkers and Sheaffers of which I've collected quite a few.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    Not sure about Pilot, as i don't own any, but the 'only' reason i would have for choosing anything other than a Sailor would be for the flex nib experience...
    that said, Nakaya, Platinum, and Lamy all make pens and nibs which deliver a superfluous writing moment.
    Sailor make many "specialty"*nibs, but I don't think a flex nib is one of them.
    Exactly.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIR View Post
    ...a superfluous writing moment.
    I'm not sure what that means, but I think I'll quote it from time to time! ;-)
    If we put a positive spin on it, I suppose those would be pens that make you write for longer than you intended because they're such a pleasure.
    "The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here..." -- Abraham Lincoln, 1863

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Pilot and Sailor do make some of the best nibs in my opinion. The Pilot PO nib is one of my favorites. They are some of the few pens that I own that can write a line after leaving them unused for half-years at a time.

    That said, when I was preparing and writing my phd exams a few years ago, I discovered two things: 1) a Sailor ProGear fits my hand perfectly; and 2) I still needed to change pens after ever so many pages due to bad hand cramps. Changing to a pelikan m805, pilot 912, and numerous twisbis and lamys in all their different sizes helped me get more shit done. Girth, pen balance, and nib feed back all made a difference to me.

    There is quality everywhere in currently made fountain pens just as there are people who state their likes and dislikes of certain pens. Use and buy what you like. People buy pens for more reasons than their own ideas of how great the QC is at a manufacturer.

    Nowadays I tend to just use a set of Lamy 2000s (fp, rb & mp). I use them for no other reason than that I enjoy them. I am content with that for the moment, though I will probably still buy more pens. There are a few Sailors, Pelikans and a Montblanc that I desire.
    Last edited by dfo; September 27th, 2020 at 12:29 AM.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    I do what dfo does and switch pens a few times in a session. I’ll go back and forth from a 146 to a 51 to a Duofold or a Lamy 2000 or KoP or whatever. Lord knows i have enough pens. It helps keep my hand fresh.
    Last edited by guyy; September 27th, 2020 at 10:56 AM.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    I like Sailor. I like Pilot. I have several of each. I also like Platinum. I have several of those. And from the other side of the world, I am particularly fond of Pelikan and Lamy. Quite simply, if something about each pen I own didn't appeal to me, from price to color to performance to availability to scarcity to I don't even know, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place. I'm not picky, but I'm not completely indiscriminate, either.

  30. #37
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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    I have several Pilots, Sailors and Platinums, mostly from the seventies and eighties. They have really splendid nibs, not quite up to the vintage Swans or Onotos, but not far behind. The only other modern or modernish pen I have is a Waterman Carene. It's quite a good writer but not really in the same class as the Japanese nibs.

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    I agree with the original post. All of my pens are Pilot or Sailor, except for an FPR Himalaya I got for fun.
    wasting time on tapatalk

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    When I first started getting back into fountain pens after a long hiatus, my first pen was a Pilot Prera and my second a Metropolitan. I was very happy with both of them, and so surprised at what a great writer the Metropolitan was for so cheap (I paid $12 for it) that I though a Metropolitan was the only fountain pen anyone should need. Why spend $30 or $50 (or God forbid, $500) on a pen when a Metropolitan was so reliable and smooth-writing?

    That was then. These days I rarely pick up a Pilot, except for a Custom 74 with a fine nib that I use primarily for bookkeeping. For writing fiction, writing first drafts of just about anything, and writing to my pen pals, I find that I use vintage stub-nibbed pens almost exclusively. I have a Pilot Metropolitan with an italic nib, but it feels stiff and unresponsive and downright clunky in my hand compared to my Sheaffer, Parker and even Esterbrook nibs. I rarely use it.

    I have a couple of Sailors that I like more than my Pilots. My favorite, a 1911, is chez Michael Masuyama at the moment, awaiting surgery. When it wakes up from the anesthesia it will be a Masuyama cursive italic, and it will, I am certain, be one of my go-to pens. He is a genius, and nibs that he's worked on are an absolute delight. Much more exciting than out-of-the-box Sailor nibs.

    I have a Waterman Charleston that writes much more smoothly than any Pilot I've ever owned. Comparing steel nib to steel nib, I have a Pelikan M205 that also writes much more smoothly than any Pilot I've ever owned. So, yes, Pilots and Sailors are quality pens, and low end Pilots are very affordable. But, they are not the end all and be all of fountain pens.
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    (What are you laughing at? Just change the name and the joke’s on you.)

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    Default Re: Sailor and Pilot - why buy anything else?

    Quote Originally Posted by jace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    In diversity there is beauty and there is strength.

    ~ Maya Angelou
    Yikes. Ok ok, I concede. I don't even know why I started this thread. I guess it's my way of quickly learning more FP brands through an aggressive/controversial post. I really didn't see any valid counterpoint (brands) to my OP so, I guess I will retain my hypothesis. Sorry if this may sound selfish or self-motivated, aren't we all?

    If you are admin and have the permission, please feel free to delete this thread!
    Not trying to stir anything up, and it's off topic, but "selfish or self-motivated, aren't we all?"

    That's an interesting self-justification for what you are yourself calling "an aggressive/controversial post" designed to help you learn more quickly--by apparently provoking others.

    This is a great community because so many experienced collectors and users are so quick and so generous to share their deep knowledge and experience here and on many other forums, which are not plagued by the kind of obnoxious (or moderator-restricted) interaction that characterizes many others.

    Clearly, most people are responding to your query here in a selfless, friendly way, rather than engaging in a debate or argument in response to being provoked.
    So if you want to start a discussion or ask a question, why make it aggressive or controversial? I feel like we have enough of that already in these times and it's not solving much.

    You did provoke me with your comments about everyone being selfish and self-motivated.

    A firefighter has just died fighting a local fire here, leaving a wife and daughter behind. I don't think self-motivation played a major role in his career choice or his willingness to fight this fire. 16 hour days for weeks on end, risking his life. Same with the front-line health workers I know. Not everyone I served with enlisted for selfless reasons, but more than a few did. We can disagree, but saying everyone is selfish or self-motivated is a pretty poor excuse for any kind of behavior, especially bad behavior. How about just owning your actions and words without making excuses for them?

    And btw, why did you feel the need to state that you "prefer" "American/European culture" to Japanese? Do you feel like you have to justify why you prefer Japanese pens, even if you hold your own culture in higher regard? Or want to criticize other cultures that don't have the same work-ethic or quality standards you attribute to Japanese culture?

    Or was that just more trying to provoke a reaction by being controversial?

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