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Thread: Etiquette of buying and selling online

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    Default Etiquette of buying and selling online

    Hello fpgeeks!
    I have purchased a pen off another forum's member. Or so it seems.

    Allow me to explain: I have posted a WTB a year back. It was December 2019.
    A user got it touch with me, saying he was willing to part from his pen.
    I wanted to pay in advance - as is the norm - while also attaching my address for the postage, but then the messages were interrupted abruptly.
    No updated in the following months.
    In January renewed my interest some time later with a new PM, renewing my query to have at least a payment method to which I could send the money.

    But then the corona virus had struck, and we were locked down.

    No pen. Understandable.

    Fast forward to last september, I sent a new offer. The seller replies with another promise of quick shipping.

    Then silence for the next 30 days.

    At this point I thought the seller just wasn't interested but wouldn't say no, so I withdrew from my offer with a message, which has never received a reply.

    Last week I received the pen. Unexpected. Date of receival from the post office is well beyond the date where I withdrew from my offer.

    It's a good pen indeed. Sent as promised, too, with postage signed for.

    But I have not paid for it, and frankly, I had lost interest over it.

    Should I just return it?

    I have already messaged the seller, but alas he is not opening my PMs.

    I had thought of returning the pen and attaching a letter where I just thank him but decline the pen.

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    I don't know Italian or EU law that applies to this matter, but if this happened in the US, you would not be bound by your offer that you withdrew before any acceptance. The best course of action is what you propose, and mention in your letter that you had already withdrawn your offer. Based on the troublesome communication with the pen's owner, be sure you get proof of delivery of the return parcel.

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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    Law-wise, the other party had never known of my withdrawal.
    However, the norms of civil law regarding distance contracts enforced in italy reads as follows: "acceptance [of the offer] must reach the proposer within the term established by him or within the term deemed normally necessary according to the nature of the business or the uses.

    Nulla quaestio then, if we abide to laws (and laws strictly) that the nature of the business or the uses is a bit vague regarding forum trades. Less so regarding general online trades such as well known trading platforms.

    I am inclined to believe that I should return the pen and pay for the postage, but I would like to read second opinions on that.
    Or perhaps I should just wait for a message from the seller?

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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    I'd wait for a message from the seller. They seem to have issues communicationg promptly, so give them 3 months. After that time, if you have not heard from them, you may find you like your new pen.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    I don't believe you have to return the pen and pay for the postage. From what you say it seems like it was sent as an unsolicited item. It's up to them to get it back if they wish to do so. They have up to 6 months to get it back and you definitely don't have to pay anything to return it.
    Last edited by Chrissy; October 23rd, 2020 at 02:31 AM.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    It is a question of Italian and EU law, but in my jurisdiction, it would be incumbent upon the owner to make arrangements and bear the cost of retrieving his pen, since (based upon what you represented) there was no agreement between the two of you when he sent the pen. However, you would not be entitled to treat the pen as yours until it is deemed abandoned, and in the interim, you would have to take minimal steps to safeguard it. In my mind, the hassle of a possible dispute spilling into the public forum isn't worth hoping for and relying upon abandonment, and if your reputation as a buyer is sullied, you'll wish you'd bought the postage and returned it with proof of delivery. Misunderstandings do happen.

    Internet forums are no place to seek legal advice.

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    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    I wouldn't overthink this. If you like the pen, keep it and pay up. If you don't want the pen, send it back and pay the postage with proof of delivery. That is a small price to pay for you to do the right thing.

    These are difficult times and I would not assume that a lack of communication is a result of bad faith. After all the seller sent you the pen without receiving payment. I think that should count for something.

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    eachan (October 22nd, 2020), Ole Juul (October 22nd, 2020), Stands on Feet (October 22nd, 2020)

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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    I'd wait for a message from the seller. They seem to have issues communicationg promptly, so give them 3 months. After that time, if you have not heard from them, you may find you like your new pen.
    I have sent another PM. However, as custodian of the pen, I am not to use it. That would be furtum usus

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    I don't believe you have to return the pen and pay for the postage. From what you say it seems like it was sent as an unsolicited item. It's up to them to get it back if they wish to do so. They have up to 6 months to get it back and you definitely don't have to pay anything to return it.
    It may very well be a misunderstanding between us. Again, I'm no expert on forum trades, and there may be a number of reasons as how, or why, this whole situation happened. Perhaps the seller is just a busy man and had seen in my intention of buying the pen a sort of non revocable proposal? Perhaps he's just used to forum communities and trusts the buyer so much so as to send the goods beforehand? Who knows. Anyway, I'd rather not break such a circle of good faith.

    Quote Originally Posted by FredRydr View Post
    It is a question of Italian and EU law, but in my jurisdiction, it would be incumbent upon the owner to make arrangements and bear the cost of retrieving his pen, since (based upon what you represented) there was no agreement between the two of you when he sent the pen. However, you would not be entitled to treat the pen as yours until it is deemed abandoned, and in the interim, you would have to take minimal steps to safeguard it. In my mind, the hassle of a possible dispute spilling into the public forum isn't worth hoping for and relying upon abandonment, and if your reputation as a buyer is sullied, you'll wish you'd bought the postage and returned it with proof of delivery. Misunderstandings do happen.

    Internet forums are no place to seek legal advice.
    Far from me to seek legal advice on the web. As mentioned, law-wise I am at a no fault. I was just enquiring on the ethical side of such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    I wouldn't overthink this. If you like the pen, keep it and pay up. If you don't want the pen, send it back and pay the postage with proof of delivery. That is a small price to pay for you to do the right thing.

    These are difficult times and I would not assume that a lack of communication is a result of bad faith. After all the seller sent you the pen without receiving payment. I think that should count for something.
    Sound advice. Especially the difficult times. Thanks carlos.q

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    Senior Member Ole Juul's Avatar
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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    Quote Originally Posted by aquafox View Post

    . . . but alas he is not opening my PMs.
    Over the years I've found that PMs often seem to be ignored. Some people don't stay logged in, or even don't actually log in on a regular basis. They may not even have a link handy for the forum and have to do a search to find it again. There are many ways of relating to a forum and the internet in general. I certainly wouldn't expect a PM to work reliably.

    My opinion is that you should have used email for this.

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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    Just to give this thread a follow up: all's well that ends well!
    Thankfully the seller is in good health but couldn't get in touch with me for some reason. Transaction successful, pen was paid for!
    Thanks everyone for your inputs.

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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    We all love happy endings!

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    Chrissy (October 29th, 2020)

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    Default Re: Etiquette of buying and selling online

    That's very good news. Thanks for coming back and letting us know.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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