I Cannot Fathom This Election

[welch]

I am not gloating over this dneal, I am disappointed. With idiot presidents and dictatorships and fundamental religion leaders everywhere on the planet, we need some countries to show example. So yes, from that perspective we need the USA. Unfortunately also sometimes in a military role, but primarily as a democratic, regulated, law abiding, role model of democracy. What happens now is scary.

No worries. Democracy is messy sometimes.

I said this sort of thing was going to happen. I believe my comment was something along the lines of "you have a brush fire...". This is why the concerns of election impropriety needed to be addressed and not dismissed (let alone derided). Senator Cruz (before the proceedings were disrupted) said that 40% of Americans think the election was "rigged".

That said, the overwhelming majority of these people will go home peacefully. MAGA folks are not ANTIFA. If this is as bad as it gets, I'm ok with it.

Trump needs to tweet his thanks for their support, and that they need to go home.

Being silly, dneal. Just found some sort of bomb.

I ask again, how can we explain reality to people who believe that the moon is made of green cheese? Cruz and what Trump calls "Trump media" have screamed that the election was stolen, even as Trump filed suit 60 times and 60 times judges considered all the evidence and rejected it. Recall that Giuliani admitted to Judge Brann, US District Court in PA, that he had no evidence of voter fraud. Cruz, the treasonous scum, tells people that Trump's votes were stolen, and then howls that Trump voters don't believe he lost, and therefore all their conspiracy thinking should be treated with great tenderness. It is a feedback loop.

We went through rational investigation of all the fifty state elections. Trump's storm troopers cling to their insanity. Why should rational people keep trying to explain reality to them?

[TSherbs]

Well, Maga can't blame Antifa for this disgrace. One tyrant alone is responsible.

I actually think that Trump's behavior has put the lives and well-being of his children all in jeopardy. This outrageous disgrace will forever taint them (something that some of them have also brought on themselves) and mean that they get no respect wherever people are free to speak their minds.

[dneal]

I am not gloating over this dneal, I am disappointed. With idiot presidents and dictatorships and fundamental religion leaders everywhere on the planet, we need some countries to show example. So yes, from that perspective we need the USA. Unfortunately also sometimes in a military role, but primarily as a democratic, regulated, law abiding, role model of democracy. What happens now is scary.

No worries. Democracy is messy sometimes.

I said this sort of thing was going to happen. I believe my comment was something along the lines of "you have a brush fire...". This is why the concerns of election impropriety needed to be addressed and not dismissed (let alone derided). Senator Cruz (before the proceedings were disrupted) said that 40% of Americans think the election was "rigged".

That said, the overwhelming majority of these people will go home peacefully. MAGA folks are not ANTIFA. If this is as bad as it gets, I'm ok with it.

Trump needs to tweet his thanks for their support, and that they need to go home.

Being silly, dneal. Just found some sort of bomb.

I ask again, how can we explain reality to people who believe that the moon is made of green cheese? Cruz and what Trump calls "Trump media" have screamed that the election was stolen, even as Trump filed suit 60 times and 60 times judges considered all the evidence and rejected it. Recall that Giuliani admitted to Judge Brann, US District Court in PA, that he had no evidence of voter fraud. Cruz, the treasonous scum, tells people that Trump's votes were stolen, and then howls that Trump voters don't believe he lost, and therefore all their conspiracy thinking should be treated with great tenderness. It is a feedback loop.

We went through rational investigation of all the fifty state elections. Trump's storm troopers cling to their insanity. Why should rational people keep trying to explain reality to them?

You did not go through a rational investigation, lib talking points notwithstanding. Putting up a chart (like in Georgia) of "claims" and "facts" is not an investigation. Courts dismissing cases for standing, laches, etc... is not an investigation.

Maricopa county still defies a congressional subpoena. Cases are still pending with the Supreme Court (not that they're going to do anything with them).

If Dems have nothing to hide, why not satisfy people's concerns? It's as simple as that.

What you see now is what happens when you dismiss them, as I have said for weeks. Trump bears a lot of blame for this, but not all of it.

[TSherbs]

So, Trump's message is that he "won in a landslide" and that everyone knows it.

This is why I call him and all the other motherfuckers "delusional". He's fucking crazy in his evil, manipulative inability to accept a loss. Everything ever said about his instability and narcissism exactly right. Exactly.

[welch]

Now Trump cuts a video saying: We won in a landslide. It was stolen from us. You are angry. We are angry. It was stolen and everyone klnows it. But go home now/ In peace. Because it was stolen. [Sniffle. Whimper] It was a fraud.

[TSherbs]

dneal, if you still think that it is "possible" that Trump actually won any state in which Biden was declared a winner, then you are a delusional idiot yourself. This "maybe" or "possible" or "plausible" shit that you write here is just another form of wishy-washy intellectual permissiveness that enables this violent bullshit and assault on democracy.

You continually criticize others for simply seeing Maga craziness for exactly what it is. And we reject it as stupid, vapid, gullible bullshit that Trump rode into office on and today stoked into outrageous violence on the seat of democratic power. All on the lie/delusion of a steal. Maga just can't take losing.

Fuck you and your mambi-pamby bullshit of "maybe" the vote was stolen and we should open an investigation in order to appease these people.

No, fuck them. Fuck every mambi-pambi ass-kissing Republican scared of them. Grow a fucking spine and stand for the principle of democracy and smooth transition of power.

I'm tired of being polite to adult idiots. We put an idiot in the White House, and now this is where we are.

[welch]

I am not gloating over this dneal, I am disappointed. With idiot presidents and dictatorships and fundamental religion leaders everywhere on the planet, we need some countries to show example. So yes, from that perspective we need the USA. Unfortunately also sometimes in a military role, but primarily as a democratic, regulated, law abiding, role model of democracy. What happens now is scary.

No worries. Democracy is messy sometimes.

I said this sort of thing was going to happen. I believe my comment was something along the lines of "you have a brush fire...". This is why the concerns of election impropriety needed to be addressed and not dismissed (let alone derided). Senator Cruz (before the proceedings were disrupted) said that 40% of Americans think the election was "rigged".

That said, the overwhelming majority of these people will go home peacefully. MAGA folks are not ANTIFA. If this is as bad as it gets, I'm ok with it.

Trump needs to tweet his thanks for their support, and that they need to go home.

Being silly, dneal. Just found some sort of bomb.

I ask again, how can we explain reality to people who believe that the moon is made of green cheese? Cruz and what Trump calls "Trump media" have screamed that the election was stolen, even as Trump filed suit 60 times and 60 times judges considered all the evidence and rejected it. Recall that Giuliani admitted to Judge Brann, US District Court in PA, that he had no evidence of voter fraud. Cruz, the treasonous scum, tells people that Trump's votes were stolen, and then howls that Trump voters don't believe he lost, and therefore all their conspiracy thinking should be treated with great tenderness. It is a feedback loop.

We went through rational investigation of all the fifty state elections. Trump's storm troopers cling to their insanity. Why should rational people keep trying to explain reality to them?

You did not go through a rational investigation, lib talking points notwithstanding. Putting up a chart (like in Georgia) of "claims" and "facts" is not an investigation. Courts dismissing cases for standing, laches, etc... is not an investigation.

Maricopa county still defies a congressional subpoena. Cases are still pending with the Supreme Court (not that they're going to do anything with them).

If Dems have nothing to hide, why not satisfy people's concerns? It's as simple as that.

What you see now is what happens when you dismiss them, as I have said for weeks. Trump bears a lot of blame for this, but not all of it.

Come off it, dneal. Be honest. You read the court findings. Not a single judge in a single case found a single bit of bel;ievable evidence in any of the 60 Republican suits filed to overthrow the election, in a coordinated attempt to overthrow democracy. I've read them all. I don't give a hoot about "laches", except that he was an Athenian general in the Second Peloponesian war. The Trump lawyers withdrew their claims of fraud in Pennsylvania. You have mistaken the decision of the US Appeals Court, written by Judge Bibas, for that of the trial court, written by Judge Brann. That's when Giuliani and the rest withdrew all claims of fraud.

Read the others. The Athenian general was a minor player compared to the outright silly claims dismissed in Michigan and Nevada and Georgia, the Kraken concocted by Fidel in Red Heaven, the pathetic beggig complaints by which Trump insisted that he won Georgia because he had big rallies. Did you watch Gabe Sterling's point-by-point refutation of Trump's psycho-wacko claims? Or listen to the entire hour-long call in which Trump and his loyal helpers assaulted logic and evidence as known by Georgia Secretary of State Raffensberger?

Still, Hawley, Cruz, and the rest claim that they cannot believe that the elections were honest. They had their chance. They failed in court. They are history.

[TSherbs]

In other news, Joel Ossoff was just declared the winner of the other seat.

Trump's legacy continues to deteriorate, from bad to devastating.

[dneal]

I am not gloating over this dneal, I am disappointed. With idiot presidents and dictatorships and fundamental religion leaders everywhere on the planet, we need some countries to show example. So yes, from that perspective we need the USA. Unfortunately also sometimes in a military role, but primarily as a democratic, regulated, law abiding, role model of democracy. What happens now is scary.

No worries. Democracy is messy sometimes.

I said this sort of thing was going to happen. I believe my comment was something along the lines of "you have a brush fire...". This is why the concerns of election impropriety needed to be addressed and not dismissed (let alone derided). Senator Cruz (before the proceedings were disrupted) said that 40% of Americans think the election was "rigged".

That said, the overwhelming majority of these people will go home peacefully. MAGA folks are not ANTIFA. If this is as bad as it gets, I'm ok with it.

Trump needs to tweet his thanks for their support, and that they need to go home.

Being silly, dneal. Just found some sort of bomb.

I ask again, how can we explain reality to people who believe that the moon is made of green cheese? Cruz and what Trump calls "Trump media" have screamed that the election was stolen, even as Trump filed suit 60 times and 60 times judges considered all the evidence and rejected it. Recall that Giuliani admitted to Judge Brann, US District Court in PA, that he had no evidence of voter fraud. Cruz, the treasonous scum, tells people that Trump's votes were stolen, and then howls that Trump voters don't believe he lost, and therefore all their conspiracy thinking should be treated with great tenderness. It is a feedback loop.

We went through rational investigation of all the fifty state elections. Trump's storm troopers cling to their insanity. Why should rational people keep trying to explain reality to them?

You did not go through a rational investigation, lib talking points notwithstanding. Putting up a chart (like in Georgia) of "claims" and "facts" is not an investigation. Courts dismissing cases for standing, laches, etc... is not an investigation.

Maricopa county still defies a congressional subpoena. Cases are still pending with the Supreme Court (not that they're going to do anything with them).

If Dems have nothing to hide, why not satisfy people's concerns? It's as simple as that.

What you see now is what happens when you dismiss them, as I have said for weeks. Trump bears a lot of blame for this, but not all of it.

Come off it, dneal. Be honest. You read the court findings. Not a single judge in a single case found a single bit of bel;ievable evidence in any of the 60 Republican suits filed to overthrow the election, in a coordinated attempt to overthrow democracy. I've read them all. I don't give a hoot about "laches", except that he was an Athenian general in the Second Peloponesian war. The Trump lawyers withdrew their claims of fraud in Pennsylvania. You have mistaken the decision of the US Appeals Court, written by Judge Bibas, for that of the trial court, written by Judge Brann. That's when Giuliani and the rest withdrew all claims of fraud.

Read the others. The Athenian general was a minor player compared to the outright silly claims dismissed in Michigan and Nevada and Georgia, the Kraken concocted by Fidel in Red Heaven, the pathetic beggig complaints by which Trump insisted that he won Georgia because he had big rallies. Did you watch Gabe Sterling's point-by-point refutation of Trump's psycho-wacko claims? Or listen to the entire hour-long call in which Trump and his loyal helpers assaulted logic and evidence as known by Georgia Secretary of State Raffensberger?

Still, Hawley, Cruz, and the rest claim that they cannot believe that the elections were honest. They had their chance. They failed in court. They are history.

Yes, let's be honest. 50+ cases were not heard by courts. The majority that were not denied or withdrawn were dismissed procedurally. The Supreme Court had a chance to hear a valid constitutional argument, and denied it for standing.

"Voter fraud" aside, there is absolutely zero doubt that Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia altered their elections through the executive and/or judicial branches. Texas has a valid argument when they point out that the U.S. Constitution forbids that. The Supreme Court in Bush v Gore notes that State legislatures have plenary authority in this matter.

As for the rest, like laches, you just ignore what's convenient. Why are you going on about the Peloponnesian war, other than to deflect?

But you continue to miss or ignore my actual point. It's about satisfying 40% of the population, not about whether Trump's argument is valid. So again, why not investigate if there's nothing to hide? What's the harm?

[dneal]

dneal, if you still think that it is "possible" that Trump actually won any state in which Biden was declared a winner, then you are a delusional idiot yourself. This "maybe" or "possible" or "plausible" shit that you write here is just another form of wishy-washy intellectual permissiveness that enables this violent bullshit and assault on democracy.

You continually criticize others for simply seeing Maga craziness for exactly what it is. And we reject it as stupid, vapid, gullible bullshit that Trump rode into office on and today stoked into outrageous violence on the seat of democratic power. All on the lie/delusion of a steal. Maga just can't take losing.

Fuck you and your mambi-pamby bullshit of "maybe" the vote was stolen and we should open an investigation in order to appease these people.

No, fuck them. Fuck every mambi-pambi ass-kissing Republican scared of them. Grow a fucking spine and stand for the principle of democracy and smooth transition of power.

I'm tired of being polite to adult idiots. We put an idiot in the White House, and now this is where we are.

One chance. Is this how you want this "discussion" to devolve? You want to start with name-calling?

Just need to point it out, since I'll be the one that gets piled on when it gets nasty.

[TSherbs]

"chance"? I don't give a shit about a "chance". You don't give out "chances."

I'm calling anyone who states even that "maybe" Trump won an "idiot." In fact a "delusional idiot."

Especially if you (or others or Donald Trump) are an adult.

It's time to be outraged at the idiocy and squishy intellectualism that has enabled this delusional bullshit. Welch has been too long polite (and repetitive) with his insistence on reason even while he knows reason does nothing to erase delusion.

And now that delusion has been used to stoke into violence on our Capitol, I call fuck you to the delusion and anyone who excuses it or enables it.

Take it however you want.

[TSherbs]

And I will again say, it is time for these Republican sycophants to withdraw their crass and empty objections to these certified EC tallies. They are all complicit in what has been a national disgrace. Finally, finally, finally, some Republicans are saying that there has been nothing to these objections but political expediency. For fuck's sake, that's is what the non-idiot adults have been saying all along.

[TSherbs]

The only "conspiracy" out there has been Democratic outrage at having lost in 2016 to a corrupt egomaniac, and they have been working tirelessly to defeat him ever since. Yes, people are out to get Trump. They are called Democrats, the team he beat. So, in the rematch of 2020, they kicked his ass, fair and square. And the narcissist baby has been inciting violence and discord in his name ever since.

[dneal]

"chance"? I don't give a shit about a "chance". You don't give out "chances."

I'm calling anyone who states even that "maybe" Trump won an "idiot." In fact a "delusional idiot."

Especially if you (or others or Donald Trump) are an adult.

It's time to be outraged at the idiocy and squishy intellectualism that has enabled this delusional bullshit. Welch has been too long polite (and repetitive) with his insistence on reason even while he knows reason does nothing to erase delusion.

And now that delusion has been used to stoke into violence on our Capitol, I call fuck you to the delusion and anyone who excuses it or enables it.

Take it however you want.

vitriol deleted since you're now civil again, if a little sarcastic

*kisses*

[dneal]

LMAO

4sttvz.jpg

--edit--

God bless the Babylon Bee.

Mostly Peaceful Protesters Breach U.S. Capitol

WASHINGTON, D.C.—In a mostly peaceful demonstration that was very peaceful, some peace-loving and very nonviolent protestors stormed the Capitol building in Washington D.C. and attempted to occupy it in support of Trump.


Trump asked the demonstrators to tone down the wanton peacefulness so it wouldn't get too out of hand ahead of his planned rally.

All the mostly peaceful demonstrators mostly ignored Trump's pleas because that's how much they love peacefulness.

After shuffling around the Capitol building for a few hours, they eventually filed out since they were unsure of what to do next.

[TSherbs]

Is your lack of a rejection of the steal idea an indication that you accept the possibility? Contrary to your more personal disparagement of me, mentioning my job and other things, I simply despise and have no civility for one thing: this vapid, stupid, ignorant idea that the election was stolen.

You believe in the possibility of a stolen election, dneal?

[TSherbs]

Trump just tweeted that he actually won in a "sacred landslide". You support that, dneal? Your answer should only take a few words.

[dneal]

I'm agnostic on the stolen election issue. There is no proof at this point, so I assume it wasn't.

What happened in the four cities in four states was a novel event, and an anomaly compared to previous elections. I see how that creates suspicion.

There has been a lot of effort to document evidence. I've looked at most of it. It's worth looking into further, but not convincing at this point. It's certainly not convincing enough to stop the inauguration or overturn an election.

I don't have a problem with the lawsuits. The ability to address a grievance is what makes America what it is. Some of the courts were political. The Wisconsin Justice Jill Karofski was unprofessional and clearly biased, having to be called out by the chief justice. They're elected, and it is what it is. I understand why the SC doesn't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. I think they should have heard the Texas case, and issued a ruling. Sure a lot of folks wouldn't be happy, but at least they would feel like their argument was considered. That's the problem, and why what happened today at the Capitol happened.

Trump bears a lot of the blame in this. He stoked the fires. My 77 year old mother still believes Trump will be successful. She has been brainwashed by right-wing media, and she drifts to crazier shit daily. My sister and I were arguing about who was going to call her today (she did). Somewhere Mom got the idea that Biden is dead, and the guy we see is a clone. Seriously.

I know what it's like to deal with truly delusional Trumpers. I know what it's like to deal with everyday people who passionately support Trump. I have a good idea what they need to move on, and that's what I've been trying to say throughout these threads.

The vitriol coming from the Michigan Secretary of State, and the Pennsylvania AG, contribute to this too. You can't harp on "baseless claims" to people who think the claims have merit. It's the same principle that got us Trump in the first place. Average middle American was told daily how they were racists, the country they love is evil, and anyone they like is "literally Hitler". The left pushed them to far, and they elected Trump. I'm concerned the left is pushing them too far again with this election. The society is too volatile for it right now.

I don't believe I've said it here yet, but a lesson from Orwell that most people miss is that the Party knew to leave the proles alone. Trump and protestors storming the capitol is what happens when you don't.

[TSherbs]

I'm agnostic on the stolen election issue. There is no proof at this point, so I assume it wasn't.

What happened in the four cities in four states was a novel event, and an anomaly compared to previous elections. I see how that creates suspicion.

I see how "novel" events creates suspicion, too. Suspicion is different from convinced and unshakable faith. Trump's victory was "novel" in its own way--had not occurred in that manner before. So what. You know that there is no actual evidence beyond some new patterns, so I wont get into any list-making like welch has. I let the 50 states and then the 60 subsequent courts do the responsible work of vetting and responding to concerns. And they have. That is done and over and certified as valid.

Your agnosticism is part of the problem, and what I have sensed all along. This agnostic permissiveness is just what, spread wide, enables sick and twisted paranoid thinking to multiply (the internet sure helps too). Those 60 or so Republicans signing on to these objections may have been acting on "suspicions" or "maybes" or "well if it is not true, then prove it." And that is morally craven in a democracy built on this Constitutional process.

Then get a psycho leader stoking these delusional ideas (Biden won by 7 million votes--to believe otherwise, with a sense of actionable certainty, is a form of delusion) and suggesting violence to the suggestible, and you get just what we got.

So fuck that, and fuck its enabling. Especially those Republicans lining up to object to those honest and true certifications from the states. Nothing was fucking "stolen" and there was no "sacred landslide election victory" for Trump. Not even a fucking "maybe." Not even a tiny morsel of possibility.

[TSherbs]

Oh, and you can't blame the "Left" for "pushing" Maga "too far" in this election. All the Dems did was win, for crissake. And they elected a moderate. For fuck sake, what are you talking about "pushing them too far"? Losing is not getting "pushed too far" unless you share Trump's megalomania and victim complex. And those aren't rational nor worthy of accommodation.