Yes, I got notice from the NYT. That said, I was not aware the DOJ had actually launched an investigation, but not that they would tell me if they were.....LOL!!Originally Posted by ethernautrix
Barr and McConnell appear to be moving on.
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Yes, I got notice from the NYT. That said, I was not aware the DOJ had actually launched an investigation, but not that they would tell me if they were.....LOL!!
Barr and McConnell appear to be moving on.
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
In an effort to be "Fair and Balanced", here's an MSN article where a Georgia judge ordered that voting servers in three counties not be wiped, tampered with, etc... So perhaps we'll see.
What's odd (well, maybe not) is that these complaints are nothing new.
Here are a few articles from the AP about previous alleged problems with voting machines in Georgia. Note that in the first, the FBI "got involved", which turns out to be they received and stored a hard drive image without looking into the issue any further.
Expert: Georgia election server showed signs of tampering
APNewsBreak: Georgia election server wiped after suit filed
Judge blasts Georgia officials’ handling of election system
HBO aired a documentary called "Hacking Democracy", about the potential for fraud with electronic voting machines. It was nominated for an Emmy, and was all the rage when there were accusations of Russian interference. The site for the documentary is: http://www.hackingdemocracy.com/
The lady the documentary originated from has her own site: https://blackboxvoting.org/
Are they conspiracy theorists? Maybe. It's been an issue since 2003 though. None of the articles on the second site have anything to do with the 2020 election.
Setting aside 2020 for a moment, it seems rational to implement controls on systems to assure the public and prevent these sort of accusations; whether it's Stacy Abrams or Donald Trump. The black box voting site explains several options, from "The Brakey Method" to ballot imaging.
Here are Salon.com's and HuffPost's reviews of the documentary, and arguments of relevance which I think are still valid today. Those two outlets are hardly bastions of conservatism. Perhaps this might finally persuade EoC that there is a very small reason to have an inkling of concern with electronic systems. I dunno...
Last edited by dneal; December 1st, 2020 at 03:25 PM.
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
@ethernautrix Hear hearIn an effort to be "Fair and Balanced", here's an MSN article where a Georgia judge ordered that voting servers in three counties not be wiped, tampered with, etc... So perhaps we'll see.
What's odd (well, maybe not) is that these complaints are nothing new.
Here are a few articles from the AP about previous alleged problems with voting machines in Georgia. Note that in the first, the FBI "got involved", which turns out to be they received and stored a hard drive image without looking into the issue any further.
Expert: Georgia election server showed signs of tampering
APNewsBreak: Georgia election server wiped after suit filed
Judge blasts Georgia officials’ handling of election system
HBO aired a documentary called "Hacking Democracy", about the potential for fraud with electronic voting machines. It was nominated for an Emmy, and was all the rage when there were accusations of Russian interference. The site for the documentary is: http://www.hackingdemocracy.com/
The lady the documentary originated from has her own site: https://blackboxvoting.org/
Are they conspiracy theorists? Maybe. It's been an issue since 2003 though. None of the articles on the second site have anything to do with the 2020 election.
Setting aside 2020 for a moment, it seems rational to implement controls on systems to assure the public and prevent these sort of accusations; whether it's Stacy Abrams or Donald Trump. The black box voting site explains several options, from "The Brakey Method" to ballot imaging.
Here are Salon.com's and HuffPost's reviews of the documentary, and arguments of relevance which I think are still valid today. Those two outlets are hardly bastions of conservatism. Perhaps this might finally persuade EoC that there is a very small reason to have an inkling of concern with electronic systems. I dunno...
The National Review ...good read...........
More BS from above....Excuses are like assholes Everybody got one [Dude in the movie]
Well gotta go..Some chow and glass of Overture by Opus One.....
And The Beat Goes On
Fred
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Fascinatin'
2018, from that neo-con conservative rag The New York Times
The Crisis of Election Security
As the midterms approach, America’s electronic voting systems are more vulnerable than ever. Why isn’t anyone trying to fix them?
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
[QUOTE=dneal;310119]Fascinatin'
2018, from that neo-con conservative rag The New York Times
Fascinatin...ain't it......Certainly Whoop Whoop Whoop Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
Sure is Pal........and The Beat Goes On whilst the Grifter robs those suckers....
Still your friend and his..
Fred
Say Good Night Gracie
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Quick question: How many people attended Trump's inauguration?
I recall "biggest" (or maybe it was "bigger than Obama's") contradicted by reporting. Hmm... What (whom) to believe...? What was the reality?
Or was the point to force onlookers to question ceaselessly what was obvious, even if the numbers were not exact?
_____________
To Miasto
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
One saying looping around in the back of my brain (been there for decades) is, If you repeat it enough, it becomes true. (No, it doesn't, but try explaining that to people who believe.)
I'm not saying election fraud absolutely did happen or did not happen. Some recounts gave Biden an even wider margin (albeit slim, or not). Some gave Trump more votes -- but certainly not enough to swing the election.
What about the other election results? Are they all called into question? If you throw out all the votes, who else loses or wins a Congressional seat?
Here's an interesting read from a game designer about apophenia and manipulation.
https://medium.com/curiouserinstitut...n-580972548be5
Last edited by ethernautrix; December 2nd, 2020 at 04:38 AM. Reason: Swype/AI -- still can't anticipate what I'm writing
_____________
To Miasto
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Again, if you hear what you want to think is true, your're more likely to believe it is, indeed, true. Education is supposed to root out this human tendancy out, but it is not always successful.
Some said four years ago they had to hold their nose to vote for Trump. Having to hold your nose should be a wake up call because I think most of us know the difference between right and wrong. Even a casual understanding of Trump's history and direct quotes should give any reasonable voter pause. Being immoral, Trump is not concerned about right and wrong. He simply lives to gratify himself. What if each of us lived our lives this way?
soretailedcat (December 2nd, 2020), welch (December 2nd, 2020)
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
@ ethernautrix - To your first post, I quit paying attention to Trump's exaggerations and hyperbole, and the media's discounting or "fact checking" them a long time ago. The inauguration, the rallies, the "mocking a reporter", whatever. There's no doubt Trump exaggerates, and there's no doubt the media tries to prove him wrong (and they've been caught lying about it too). It's juvenile and petty on both ends, and really doesn't matter one way or another. It doesn't affect the economy. It doesn't affect troops in Afghanistan. It doesn't affect the speed with which the COVID vaccine is developed. It does affect the polarization of the country - in a bad way. They're all fucking guilty of inciting this shit though. Dems, Repubs, Leftie news, Righty news, Q Anon conspiracy theorists, Russian Collusion conspiracy theorists, Proud Boys, Antifa malcontents, all of them.
To the second - I have no doubt that petty fraud happened all all levels of this election. I'm sure somebody stuffed a few ballots for the local dogcatcher. That kind of thing happens regularly, and there's plenty of criminal convictions to establish the fact. I am not convinced that Trump got robbed, or that there's some grand conspiracy. I am convinced that there's enough evidence to look into it, if for no other reason than to shut up 70 some odd million voters on either side. HERE's a good, objective explanation of the legal argument, although no one will watch it.
That's a good question on what happens, and the main reason I'm really interested in this election. The video I linked talks about the relief requested in the Georgia and Michigan suits. I think the strategy is (that Alan Dershowitz has noted): get enough states' electors out of the electoral math. If neither candidate gets 270 electoral votes, then the election goes to the House. Trump presumably wins, since each state gets one vote. The Senate does the same for VP. Congressional seats wouldn't get altered in that case.
RE: Q Anon. I have a couple of FB friends that eat that shit up. It's like some digital Nostradamus with obscure quatrains on 4-Chan, which then requires too much interpretation. What's weird is their predictions never come true, but they eat the next one up anyway. As an admitted fan of good conspiracy theories, Q Anon isn't one. They're not correct enough to create the illusion of believability. For me, it's on par with the "Mysterious Monolith" in Utah.
The left has their fair share too, they claimed (and still claim) Russian Collusion, to include crazy statements like "Trump paid prostitutes to pee on him". Hyperbole from Adam Schiff was never "fact checked" except in the right-wing media. The Steele Dossier fell apart. A FBI lawyer was found to have altered documents to get more warrants and continue the investigation. There is documented evidence of actual collusion to undermine Trump's presidency, and Durham just got appointed as Special Counsel to continue the investigation into the next administration - whoever that ends up being.
The medium article focuses on Q Anon, but the principles apply to both sides and the article could have been written on a lot of topics, like the myth of police overwhelmingly killing black people. The data shows that to be wrong, but BLM and such continue to "mostly peacefully protest".
The landscape is so hyper-partisan, the misinformation so prevalent and the faux outrage so extreme that discussion is near impossible (as this thread demonstrates).
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
The question that should be asked is: what's wrong with our system that so many people found "holding their nose" and voting for Trump the lesser evil? How immoral would the other candidate be perceived to be? That's telling in itself.
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
[QUOTE=Freddie;310143]You consistently mistake (or misrepresent) the point. This isn't about whether or not some mass fraud event happened to Trump. It's about whether or not it could happen - to any candidate red or blue - and how we avoid that.Fascinatin'
2018, from that neo-con conservative rag The New York Times
Fascinatin...ain't it......Certainly Whoop Whoop Whoop Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
Sure is Pal........and The Beat Goes On whilst the Grifter robs those suckers....
Still your friend and his..
Fred
Say Good Night Gracie
The problems with electronic voting machines has been pointed out by both sides, for almost 20 years. It has come to a head this year. We need to be able to assure the country in this and future elections if we're going to keep using these sorts of systems.
If you're not going to bother to look into it, and I'm fuggin' spoonfeeding the information at this point; at least stop with the "BS" / "Beat goes on" bullshit responses. It just exemplifies and exacerbates the divisiveness.
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Yup, anyone claiming a presidential election was stolen is a delusional conspiracy theorist.
https://tinyurl.com/y67kxwtq
dneal (December 2nd, 2020)
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
I'm teaching Orwell's 1984 in my class right now...
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
[QUOTE=dneal;310186][B]More BS...Perhaps you look into {again} Covid-19....The Mike Foxtrot has helped kill so far 271K fellow Americans with 13.8 M cases of..........You consistently mistake (or misrepresent) the point. This isn't about whether or not some mass fraud event happened to Trump. It's about whether or not it could happen - to any candidate red or blue - and how we avoid that.Fascinatin'
2018, from that neo-con conservative rag The New York Times
Fascinatin...ain't it......Certainly Whoop Whoop Whoop Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
Sure is Pal........and The Beat Goes On whilst the Grifter robs those suckers....
Still your friend and his..
Fred
Say Good Night Gracie
The problems with electronic voting machines has been pointed out by both sides, for almost 20 years. It has come to a head this year. We need to be able to assure the country in this and future elections if we're going to keep using these sorts of systems.
If you're not going to bother to look into it, and I'm fuggin' spoonfeeding the information at this point; at least stop with the "BS" / "Beat goes on" bullshit responses. It just exemplifies and exacerbates the divisiveness.
And {pause} The beat Goes On.....
Now back to me black coffee and I'm gonna hit the road on me R-69S.......................
Still your friend and mine..Have a great day.............
Fred/B]
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Not-Dave,
Out of curiosity (I've saved the video to watch later, cos just returned from a 14.5km walk in 0°C and am still thawing, as it were), what is a good conspiracy theory in your opinion?
(Side note: I used to enjoy the various late-night TV shows, but couldn't stomach all the cheap shots at the Donald. Just too easy and divisive and...ugh. And I have never liked Trump. As President, he is a loose cannon, and while that might be entertaining for some, it is just ugly and damaging. I wish I could ignore his "antics," but I would have to give up the Internet.... I hate all the knee-jerk jabs, although if a joke is actually funny, I'll cop to gaffawing out loud. That stance isn't out of respect for Trump but a disappointment in his detractors for...being shallow and getting back pats from friends. It's embarrassing. I tend to skip most mainstream news cos of paywalls and echo-chamber bait, but...okay, lemme get out of these parentheses.)
What news sources do you trust?
_____________
To Miasto
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Didn't check the link, but question: Who is making that claim?
(I'm sure the answer is in this thread, but trying to find it on this little screen... It's easier for me to ask.)
_____________
To Miasto
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
I'm a not-Dave....
I trust (not absolutely, of course) BBC, PBS, AP, REUTERS.
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
Pay attention to the parts about BLACKWHITE and DOUBLETHINK.I'm teaching Orwell's 1984 in my class right now...
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
[QUOTE=Freddie;310203]Easy to blame, but where’s your evidence? Do we need to wait until a judge reviews it? All I’m hearing is sounds from the echo chamber... Fascinatin’[B]More BS...Perhaps you look into {again} Covid-19....The Mike Foxtrot has helped kill so far 271K fellow Americans with 13.8 M cases of..........You consistently mistake (or misrepresent) the point. This isn't about whether or not some mass fraud event happened to Trump. It's about whether or not it could happen - to any candidate red or blue - and how we avoid that.Fascinatin'
2018, from that neo-con conservative rag The New York Times
Fascinatin...ain't it......Certainly Whoop Whoop Whoop Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk
Sure is Pal........and The Beat Goes On whilst the Grifter robs those suckers....
Still your friend and his..
Fred
Say Good Night Gracie
The problems with electronic voting machines has been pointed out by both sides, for almost 20 years. It has come to a head this year. We need to be able to assure the country in this and future elections if we're going to keep using these sorts of systems.
If you're not going to bother to look into it, and I'm fuggin' spoonfeeding the information at this point; at least stop with the "BS" / "Beat goes on" bullshit responses. It just exemplifies and exacerbates the divisiveness.
And {pause} The beat Goes On.....
Now back to me black coffee and I'm gonna hit the road on me R-69S.......................
Still your friend and mine..Have a great day.............
Fred/B]
Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election
That's the challenge. Right now, basically none for any topic that could be remotely partisan. I get a summary from a site called The Factual in my email every morning, and start there for what the stories are for the day. If something interests me, I look for biased language (I can give you a lot of examples if you want). Essentially no publication keeps the opinion out of the straight news, and a lot of purely opinion pieces get passed off as news. If I think it's biased one way or another, I look for the story on the other side. I've been joking lately that except for gender and political bent, Tucker Carlson is just like Rachel Maddow. Listen to each of them condescendingly spew their opinions, and you might be able to discern some of the truth. It's why I now read SC opinions instead of letting the news tell me what happened.
Basically I compare across the larger outlets. Washington Post / Washington Times. New York Times / New York Post. CNN / Fox. MSNBC / Newsmax. Most of the magazines are a waste of time at this point. Salon and The Atlantic lean as left as National Review and The Christian Science Monitor do right.
Lately I've been listening to podcasts while I play around on the tractor. Bret Weinstein's "Dark Horse Podcast" is pretty fair and cover a lot of contemporary topics. They admit they're liberal Democrats up front, but are pretty good about discussing both sides of an issue. They're critical of the progressive left as well as the far right, which sometimes gets them labeled as apologists, and they're definitely considered part of the "Intellectual Dark Web".
Not-Dave
--edit--
Ooops, I forgot to answer what's a good conspiracy theory! Good, as in entertaining, is the moon landing hoax. Obviously it's bullshit though but I give them points for trying. UFO's, ghosts, Bigfoot etc... pretty much fall in this category. One of the best, for intrigue and nefarious-ness is the JFK assassination. I suppose a good one has just enough believability to keep you curious, and wanting an answer. Glenn Beck can spin a good one, particularly his George Soros ones. This election debacle is awesome as a conspiracy theory, and one of the best I've seen in a long time. It's the chance it might be true that keeps you watching, and again wanting an answer.
Last edited by dneal; December 2nd, 2020 at 01:23 PM.
ethernautrix (December 3rd, 2020)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks