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Thread: I Cannot Fathom This Election

  1. #241
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Here is the text of the judge from Nevada finding against Trump. Incidentally, that makes the score about 49 - 1 against all the Trumpist lawsuits. Best I remember, Trump's one win allowed observers to move from ten feet to sex feet of the ballot-counters, which is not relevant to much of anything.

    The judge ordered the Trump electors to pay the court costs of the defendants, Nevada's Biden electors. That suggests that the judge found the Trumpist suit close to being baloney. Judge James T. Russell explains:

    - Why Nevada bought a machine to sort mail-in ballots and to check signatures. Nevada expected many more mail-in ballots because people voters Covid-19.

    - That this machine is widely used in the US, and is similar to machines that the Post Office uses to sort mail. The signature check software is used by US banks to verify signatures on about 80% of personal checks.

    - The Trump campaign / Republican party presented affidavits, but no depositions. The Judge reminds Trump's lawyers of a Federal decision that "An affidavit is generally inadmissable hearsay", because there is no chance to cross-examine the maker of an affidavit. The affidavits were dismissed.

    - The Trump campaign presented two people who claim to be experts. Both claim that they saw a pattern of voter fraud, but neither could provide the data on which they had based their opinion.

    - Trump lawyers offered a man named Scott Gessler who gave an opinion on "the transition to and administration of mail in voting". Gessler's opinion lacked citations of facts and evidence, being based entirely "on a handful of affidavits that he took no steps to corroborate through investigation".

    The defendants -- Nevada electors pledge to Joe Biden -- provided a stack of counter evidence, checked and backed-up, and available to be examined by the Trump lawyers. For details, read the ruling

    The judge tossed the case and -- unusually -- ordered the Trumpists to pay the County's court costs.

    https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-c...k3PGDdJb823AA8

  2. #242
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Oh holy shit you guys are deep in your echo chambers.

    Sidney Powell: Objection, your honor.
    Judge: Overruled
    You guys: THE KRAKEN GOT OWNED!!! DISMISSED!!! IT'S OVER!!! TIK TOK!!!

    Trump isn't going to flip 3 or more states. Biden will be inaugurated. Can we move past your end-zone celebrations now?

    Are you not the least bit concerned that there are flaws in the system that can be exploited? I know it's hard to get past Trump and your TDS when you consider that question, but make some effort. These issues go back a more than a decade. Look at the 2005 Carter-Baker report.

    LINK to the full .pdf report

  3. #243
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Here is the text of the judge from Nevada finding against Trump. Incidentally, that makes the score about 49 - 1 against all the Trumpist lawsuits. Best I remember, Trump's one win allowed observers to move from ten feet to sex feet of the ballot-counters, which is not relevant to much of anything.

    The judge ordered the Trump electors to pay the court costs of the defendants, Nevada's Biden electors. That suggests that the judge found the Trumpist suit close to being baloney. Judge James T. Russell explains:....

    https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-c...k3PGDdJb823AA8
    The most common refrain through all of the 150+ findings in this document is "the record does not support." To a lesser degree, the judge writes, "contestants did not prove..."

    The order granting motion to dismiss is an overwhelming rejection of the non-evidence and non-expert "witnesses," as you point out, welch. Dismissed, and Contestants shall pay Defendants' costs.

    Bam.



    Thank you for posting this.

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    welch (December 5th, 2020)

  5. #244
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Oh holy shit you guys are deep in your echo chambers.

    Sidney Powell: Objection, your honor.
    Judge: Overruled
    You guys: THE KRAKEN GOT OWNED!!! DISMISSED!!! IT'S OVER!!! TIK TOK!!!

    Trump isn't going to flip 3 or more states. Biden will be inaugurated. Can we move past your end-zone celebrations now?

    Are you not the least bit concerned that there are flaws in the system that can be exploited? I know it's hard to get past Trump and your TDS when you consider that question, but make some effort. These issues go back a more than a decade. Look at the 2005 Carter-Baker report.

    LINK to the full .pdf report
    Nothing in this election was "exploited," no "cracks" were pried open to result in a fraudulent election. I am not worried about that, no. Very responsible and thorough professional people were put on a task force in 2017 to oversee this very problem. We have been re-assured by every state commissioner and by the person in charge of federal oversight of this election that it was the most secure election ever.

    No, I am not worried.

    I am more worried by the actions of these delusional and lying losers who continue to lie in public (when not under oath) and who have now thrown 50+ prominent lawsuits at the conclusions of the process, all for their selfish ends. I do worry about the corrosive power of these actions upon a suggestible population in uncertain times.

    If there is an "echo" here that you are hearing, it is the voice of truth and law FINALLY coming out of this court process. Prepare to hear more as this moves forward toward its inevitable conclusion.

    Aren't you glad to be learning the truth? Isn't this relieving to find out that the claims have been declared without merit?
    Last edited by TSherbs; December 5th, 2020 at 04:08 PM.

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  7. #245
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    So I'm a little frustrated that you would post the above, when you've also said that you have ignored the hearings and not read the affidavits. How could you possibly come to a conclusion one way or another? By reading a comment from a bureaucrat whose job it is to run an election, assuring you that everything went perfectly? I'm not so trusting of bureaucrats.

    Quickly, to address your libeling your fellow citizens as "delusional lying losers who continue to lie in public (while not under oath)...". These people signed affidavits. That's under oath. That bears the penalty of perjury. I'm happy to agree that Ms. Carrone appears a little unhinged, but to portray her as representative of all affiants is horribly disingenuous. Dr. Tarver appeared to be well versed in the process and clear on the mistakes made. Monica Palmer (Chair of Wayne Co Board of Canvassers) testimony was illuminating. There are many more, and you can find each affiant's verbal testimony Here. Most are 3-5 minutes. I see regular people sharing their concerns.

    I found Russell Ramsland's testimony to the Georgia Senate quite credible, and quite concerning. His company's analysis shows that Georgia, for example, had roughly 200k ballots logged as mailed but not returned. They purged a little over half of those (and rightly so). Around 96k are logged as mailed, not returned, but voted. He found some instances of ballots being voted on the same day they were mailed (or the following day, in some cases).

    Again, I'm not assigning nefarious motive or asserting that it's clear evidence that 96k erroneous votes went to Biden. The point I continue to make is that we should do better. It is an opportunity for fraud, whether or not someone capitalized on it in this or past elections. We need to make sure no one can in future elections. These sort of discrepancies are precisely what allow conspiracy theories to be advanced with enough semblance of legitimacy to spread widely.

  8. #246
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    So I'm a little frustrated that you would post the above, when you've also said that you have ignored the hearings and not read the affidavits. ...
    You're a piece of work, dneal. You're frustrated by my responses whether I read the document or not. I don't pay attention to the "hearings." I never watch a minute of them, except when some folks post some snippets of them.

    I read many of the documents, and have not said that I do not. YOU (and kazoolaw) have accused me of this, but I haven't felt like disabusing you of your bias against me. Whatever.

    You can be as worried as you want. I have found relief in the ongoing process of the victory of truth and evidence. December 8 will be another step forward. Then December 14. Then January 20.

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  10. #247
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    You're a piece of work, dneal
    You too. Kisses.

  11. #248
    Senior Member Freddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    [B]The BS just keeps on piling up.....'Tis over the world has moved on..........

    Weird.

    Fred
    chow time /B]

  12. #249
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post

    Weird.
    Well, you're the expert on the topic.

  13. #250
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    This reminds me of the a nurse treating COVID-19 patients.

    "ll while gasping for breath on 100% Vapotherm. They tell you there must be another reason they are sick. They call you names and ask why you have to wear all that “stuff” because they don’t have COViD because it’s not real. Yes. This really happens. And"
    "I can’t stop thinking about it. These people really think this isn’t going to happen to them. And then they stop yelling at you when they get intubated. It’s like a ... horror movie that never ends. There’s no credits that roll. You just go back and do it all over again."

    These people, probably dead, beleived lies, that the virus is not real and that "we are turning the corner". The same person telling them he won the election.

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    welch (December 6th, 2020)

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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    That is a deeply saddening account, Chuck. That people died in fear and denial due to the deliberate actions of a person they would expect to be looking out for them is beyond disturbing. That person (POTUS, if I wasn't clear) probably needs to be charged under a law similar to that for war crimes for his part in the deaths.
    Last edited by Empty_of_Clouds; December 6th, 2020 at 03:22 AM.

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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    [QUOTE=TSherbs;310967]
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I read many of the documents, and have not said that I do not. YOU (and kazoolaw) have accused me of this, but I haven't felt like disabusing you of your bias against me. Whatever.
    TS, TS,

    Post 108: You said you only read the first 10 pages. Not me, not dneal.

    Facts remain pesky things.

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  19. #253
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post

    Stop being silly and illogical. Read the entire opinion. I posted the link. You read the first paragraph and ignored the rest? It says, simply, that Kraken Powell cannot appeal a decision that has not been made. The appeals court reviews decisions. In the United States, US District Courts hear cases. They consider evidence. After a District Court rules, a party may appeal.

    Sorry Welch, you shot at me and hit TS. I'm not the one who doesn't understand the difference between a dismissal on jurisdictional grounds versus a decision on the merits. Your explanation was clear and succinct. Hope he reads it all.

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  21. #254
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    I can't wait to watch what SNL does with Rudy's leaking brains and personages like Melissa Carone. Please, please!
    NBC must like fountain pens.




    It is strange that liberals now hate Rudy Giuliani and love John Bolton. Interesting times...

  22. #255
    Senior Member Freddie's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    I can't wait to watch what SNL does with Rudy's leaking brains and personages like Melissa Carone. Please, please!
    NBC must like fountain pens.


    [B]The BS just keeps on piling up.....'Tis over the world has moved on..........

    Weird.

    Fred
    chow time /B]
    Weird.
    Well, you're the expert on the topic.



    It is strange that liberals now hate Rudy Giuliani and love John Bolton. Interesting times...
    Indeed 'tis strange and weird now that you hate Mr. Giuliani and Love Mr. Bolton. Re interesting times....Yes.

    So it is this way cause maybe it is true or perhaps not true..because there is no evidence...
    Or 'Cause there hasn't been any non-evidence..........

    As noted above..Keeps piling up.

    Fred

    Entertainin' Ain't it
    Last edited by Freddie; December 6th, 2020 at 10:21 PM.

  23. #256
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    What’s really strange is that you make even less sense the closer you get to forming full sentences.

  24. #257
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    I can't wait to watch what SNL does with Rudy's leaking brains and personages like Melissa Carone. Please, please!
    NBC must like fountain pens.


    [B]The BS just keeps on piling up.....'Tis over the world has moved on..........

    Weird.

    Fred
    chow time /B]
    Weird.
    Well, you're the expert on the topic.



    It is strange that liberals now hate Rudy Giuliani and love John Bolton. Interesting times...
    Indeed 'tis strange and weird now that you hate Mr. Giuliani and Love Mr. Bolton. Re interesting times....Yes.

    So it is this way cause maybe it is true or perhaps not true..because there is no evidence...
    Or 'Cause there hasn't been any non-evidence..........

    As noted above..Keeps piling up.

    Fred

    Entertainin' Ain't it
    Wow, this is new information. Nothing is surprising, just didn't know it exists...."too many years"....LOL!!

  25. #258
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    It has come to this:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...armed-protest/

    Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson had just finished wrapping string lights around her home’s portico on Saturday evening and was about to watch “How the Grinch Stole Christmas” with her 4-year-old son when a crowd of protesters marched up carrying American flags and guns.

    About two dozen protesters chanted “Stop the Steal” and accused Benson, a Democrat and Michigan’s chief election officer, of ignoring widespread voter fraud — an echo of President Trump’s continued unfounded claims as he seeks to overturn the results of the election that President-elect Joe Biden won.

    She’s decided to completely ignore all of the credible, credible, fraudulent evidence that has been continually pointed out,” demonstrator Genevieve Peters said of Benson, as she live-streamed the protest in Detroit on Facebook. “We’re out here in front of the secretary of state’s house and we want her to know we will continue to be here.”

    Although the group dispersed with no arrests when police responded just before 10 p.m. Saturday, Michigan state officials accused the group of “terrorizing” Benson’s family.
    “They shouted baseless conspiracy theories about the election, and in videos uploaded to social media, at least one individual could be heard shouting ‘you’re murderers’ within earshot of her child’s bedroom,” Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) and Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy (D) said in a joint statement on Sunday. “This mob-like behavior is an affront to basic morality and decency.”
    They added that “terrorizing children and families at their own homes is not activism.”

    Vitriolic rhetoric has led bipartisan leaders to warn that Trump’s baseless attacks on the election are endangering election officials’ lives. Multiple Michigan officials have reported being threatened and harassed over the election results, as have officials in Georgia, Arizona, Vermont, Kentucky, Minnesota and Colorado.
    Benson also tied the Saturday protest to ongoing efforts by Trump’s supporters to undermine the election since polls closed on Election Day. On Nov. 4, election challengers shouted “Stop the count” inside a Detroit vote-counting center. About two weeks later, GOP appointees on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers initially refused to certify election results in the Detroit area, but later reversed course and formalized Biden’s victory.

    Trump and his campaign have also challenged the election results in Michigan, calling on a discredited witness who went viral for her strange testimony on alleged election fraud, which she presented without evidence, in front of a state House panel.

    Trump campaign’s star witness in Michigan was deemed ‘not credible.’ Then, her loud testimony went viral.

    “Through blatantly false press releases, purely political legislative hearings, bogus legal claims and so called ‘affidavits’ that fail to allege any clear or cogent evidence of wrongdoing, those unhappy with the results of this election have perpetuated an unprecedented, dangerous, egregious campaign to erode the public’s confidence in the results of one of the most secure, accessible and transparent elections in our state’s history,” Benson said in a statement Sunday.

    Benson is far from the only elected official who has been targeted this year by protesters at their residences.
    People displeased with the coronavirus restrictions put in place by Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) gathered in front of her Lansing home in April. Protesters opposing police violence against Black men this summer targeted mayors at their homes in Los Angeles; Portland, Ore.; Chicago; Seattle and St. Louis.
    Armed protesters also flooded the Michigan Capitol in April to demand that legislators put an end to a stay-at-home order in the state. The state’s Republican lawmakers complied, but Whitmer extended restrictions with executive orders anyway.

    Public officials, including Benson on Sunday, have largely defended the right to protest while opposing demonstrations that target elected leaders at their homes.
    “A line is crossed when gatherings are done with the primary purpose of intimidation of public officials who are carrying out the oath of office they solemnly took,” Benson said.
    But Benson also said Saturday’s protest wouldn’t lead her to abandon her responsibility to defend the election results.
    “Through threats of violence, intimidation, and bullying, the armed people outside my home and their political allies seek to undermine and silence the will and voices of every voter in this state, no matter who they voted for,” Benson said. “But their efforts won’t carry the day.”

    She called Michigan’s election results “unequivocal” and said she would defend the votes of 5.5 million Michigan citizens. With 2,804,040 votes, Biden won 50.62 percent of the vote in Michigan, surpassing Trump by more than 154,000 votes. The state’s results were certified on Nov. 23.

    “The will of the people is clear,” she said. “And I will stand up every day in my job for all voters, even the votes of the protesters who banded together outside my home.”
    Ah, Trumpist logic on display: "She’s decided to completely ignore all of the credible, credible, fraudulent evidence that has been continually pointed out,” demonstrator Genevieve Peters said of Benson, as she live-streamed the protest in Detroit on Facebook.

    Yes, Trumpists believe in "credible, fraudulent evidence" .
    Last edited by welch; December 7th, 2020 at 09:24 AM.

  26. #259
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Through blatantly false press releases, purely political legislative hearings, bogus legal claims and so called ‘affidavits’ that fail to allege any clear or cogent evidence of wrongdoing, those unhappy with the results of this election have perpetuated an unprecedented, dangerous, egregious campaign to erode the public’s confidence in the results of one of the most secure, accessible and transparent elections in our state’s history,” Benson said in a statement Sunday.
    Yes, it has eroded the public confidence. This kind of attitude certainly does nothing to assuage it.

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    Default Re: I Cannot Fathom This Election

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Yes, Trumpists believe in "credible, fraudulent evidence" .
    welch,

    I'm sure you've never heard anyone on the left claiming a presidential election was stolen since 2016. It's not a good look for either right or left.

    Nor is a good look to ignore it when it happens, whether from left or right.

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