FPG Refuges Status Area: The 2020 FPN Diaspora

[Chrissy]

ASD I know it's possible, even easy, to take the advice you gave, and sometimes members go too far in their expressions of their own feelings. Threads like this one that attract the most vociferous members also often deteriorate like this one has. Once that happens they do no favours to FPGeeks and are even more likely to send new and old members away than to encourage anyone to come here.

We have an "Ignore function" on FPG just like FPN does and in times like this more and more members go to their Settings and Edit their ignore lists. This feature works particularly well.

[mana]

Hmmm... not really a refugee as I've been a member of both forums for years. The things I do not enjoy here were fortunately curbed down at FPN years ago (and yes, I had my own tussles there with infractions because of responding to jerks too strongly).

Entitled acerbic assholes who do not know how to behave do not a better community make.

Seriously, take a pause every time you are responding to something thinking in your mind that "I have the right". So, yeah, you have the right to respond and behave whatever the fuck way you want. But what the fuck does that help achieve? What kind of a response does your behavior trigger? Because of stuff like that I have been relatively happy to cordon myself to the subforums about Pelikans and pen repair (at FPG, that is).

I like to talk shop, stay on topic and be civil, helpful and courteous. FPG seems more aloof... at FPN I've met great people with whom I've had the privilege to share not only fountain pen related things but also the joys and sorrows of my personal life (and vice versa). I think that is a sign of a good community. I am sure that there is a good community here too but also a lot more folks who like to ride the "I have the right" train (just because they can). I think that is just sad.

[grainweevil]

FPG seems more aloof...

Isn't that interesting? It's always felt exactly the opposite to me. I've tried being civil, helpful, and courteous, but never once felt part of FPN. I put it down to there being hardly any discernible sense of humour, which simply doesn't fit with how I operate.

Anyway, I am much tickled at your resorting to the F-word in order to demand people consider what response their post will trigger before posting. What, I wonder, is the reaction you expect the F-word to trigger?

What'd be really nice would be somewhere where wandering off topic and being a bit more "chatty" was tolerated, but had some moderation to curb the larger excesses of personal expression. It can be done, but maybe only among woodworkers. At least that's the only examples I've ever seen. Perhaps my selection criteria are a bit narrow...?

[Chuck Naill]

It is easy to read a post and find something for which to make an issue. It could be like when someone asked about changing out a sac on an old Esterbrook by using hot water to loosed the parts. While one member might suggest dry heat using helpful language another immediately disparages the OP for using water in a condensending manner that does nothing but inflame. The disrespect is almost never from a new member. It is usually someone who's been fiddling with pens for decades and is tired of the same old questions. I've been on many forums of various types and can say with confidence it is the long time member with more experiences that causes the degradation in the quality of the forum.

So, we each have to take stock of ourselves and consider how we should communicate and if everyone did so, this and other forums would benefit and be a more happy, helpful place to visit.

Once last year I was reading a thread that was going down hill because of one member. Later this same person responded disrespectfully to something I had written and I responded in like fashion. Soon I received a PM suggesting the member was toxic and I should put them on my ignore list. I did. Problem solved. However, I would be concerned if I was on someone's ignore list because I lacked communication skills that allowed me to communicate in a way that others would want to hear what I had to say.

[Amanda]

For all the time and effort you allegedly ‘spent’ on FPGeeks to make this a nice attractive place for everyone, you managed to undo all the supposed benefit and then some, with just a few outbursts of naked disdain and hatred that is all of your own choice and your own doing, that nobody else in the community here demands of you, in my opinion.

I can see you like to showcase your handwriting and drawings, and that's great, but it just isn't the type of thing fountain pen enthusiasts search for in Google. I think you're compelled to seek an audience for your expression and your venting, more than budding and seasoned hobbyists alike are driven to find contributed content that propels their acquisition and enjoyment of fountain pens and paraphernalia.

I'm not judging you, I don't care what's between you and FPN (or Wim personally), but I'll say that your sentiments and feelings on the matter are frankly of no concern to everyone else, and your expression of such offer no benefit to the site. Please don't try to make your pain and hatred more relevant to anyone else by insistently making the environment on FPGeeks look toxic, especially to anyone who don't feel they have been wronged, snubbed or let down by FPN — they don't share your experience and sentiments, and I hope they never do. If you want to dwell on them, then please dwell on them alone; and if you must express them again and again in comments here, then others may be equally compelled to pushback and build a wall around you so you can savour the echoes of your ranting as an outlier on your own.

Don't mistaken this for praise for FPN, by the way.

I know it's possible, even easy, to take the advice you gave, and sometimes members go too far in their expressions of their own feelings. Threads like this one that attract the most vociferous members also often deteriorate like this one has. Once that happens they do no favours to FPGeeks and are even more likely to send new and old members away than to encourage anyone to come here.

We have an "Ignore function" on FPG just like FPN does and in times like this more and more members go to their Settings and Edit their ignore lists. This feature works particularly well.

Thankyou! I found the Ignore function, tried it and delighted how well it works. Adding a name and coming back to this thread to see all the gaps is really cool. I would have continued to visit FPG more often had I discovered it earlier. I don't know if it will do enough to raise my confidence to say much - second guessing in case of attack doesn't make it much fun - but I do like to read.

Now, is there a way to have New Posts exclude some sub-forums (such as For Sale)? That would make it pretty much perfect.

[Pterodactylus]

For all the time and effort you allegedly ‘spent’ on FPGeeks to make this a nice attractive place for everyone, you managed to undo all the supposed benefit and then some, with just a few outbursts of naked disdain and hatred that is all of your own choice and your own doing, that nobody else in the community here demands of you, in my opinion.

I can see you like to showcase your handwriting and drawings, and that's great, but it just isn't the type of thing fountain pen enthusiasts search for in Google. I think you're compelled to seek an audience for your expression and your venting, more than budding and seasoned hobbyists alike are driven to find contributed content that propels their acquisition and enjoyment of fountain pens and paraphernalia.

I'm not judging you, I don't care what's between you and FPN (or Wim personally), but I'll say that your sentiments and feelings on the matter are frankly of no concern to everyone else, and your expression of such offer no benefit to the site. Please don't try to make your pain and hatred more relevant to anyone else by insistently making the environment on FPGeeks look toxic, especially to anyone who don't feel they have been wronged, snubbed or let down by FPN — they don't share your experience and sentiments, and I hope they never do. If you want to dwell on them, then please dwell on them alone; and if you must express them again and again in comments here, then others may be equally compelled to pushback and build a wall around you so you can savour the echoes of your ranting as an outlier on your own.

Don't mistaken this for praise for FPN, by the way.

I know it's possible, even easy, to take the advice you gave, and sometimes members go too far in their expressions of their own feelings. Threads like this one that attract the most vociferous members also often deteriorate like this one has. Once that happens they do no favours to FPGeeks and are even more likely to send new and old members away than to encourage anyone to come here.

We have an "Ignore function" on FPG just like FPN does and in times like this more and more members go to their Settings and Edit their ignore lists. This feature works particularly well.

Thankyou! I found the Ignore function, tried it and delighted how well it works. Adding a name and coming back to this thread to see all the gaps is really cool. I would have continued to visit FPG more often had I discovered it earlier. I don't know if it will do enough to raise my confidence to say much - second guessing in case of attack doesn't make it much fun - but I do like to read.

Now, is there a way to have New Posts exclude some sub-forums (such as For Sale)? That would make it pretty much perfect.

Unfortunately there is no way to exclude the sales sub-forum per default, but you can go to the sub-forum, click on forum tools and select: Mark this forum read, From Time to time.

The problem with the ignore function is that you hardly can follow threads anymore if you ignore more people or frequent posting people. 🤪

If one ignore enough people the forum become a really piece full and quiet place, really good for meditation.

.... especially in a small forum like this with only very few really active people.....

[whych]

@Amanda
Now, is there a way to have New Posts exclude some sub-forums (such as For Sale)? That would make it pretty much perfect.

If you exclude the For Sales there would probably be very little left I fear.
Like you, I also find the for sale a distraction mainly because most of the people who post there never contribute anything on the rest of the board.

[Chrissy]

For all the time and effort you allegedly ‘spent’ on FPGeeks to make this a nice attractive place for everyone, you managed to undo all the supposed benefit and then some, with just a few outbursts of naked disdain and hatred that is all of your own choice and your own doing, that nobody else in the community here demands of you, in my opinion.

I can see you like to showcase your handwriting and drawings, and that's great, but it just isn't the type of thing fountain pen enthusiasts search for in Google. I think you're compelled to seek an audience for your expression and your venting, more than budding and seasoned hobbyists alike are driven to find contributed content that propels their acquisition and enjoyment of fountain pens and paraphernalia.

I'm not judging you, I don't care what's between you and FPN (or Wim personally), but I'll say that your sentiments and feelings on the matter are frankly of no concern to everyone else, and your expression of such offer no benefit to the site. Please don't try to make your pain and hatred more relevant to anyone else by insistently making the environment on FPGeeks look toxic, especially to anyone who don't feel they have been wronged, snubbed or let down by FPN — they don't share your experience and sentiments, and I hope they never do. If you want to dwell on them, then please dwell on them alone; and if you must express them again and again in comments here, then others may be equally compelled to pushback and build a wall around you so you can savour the echoes of your ranting as an outlier on your own.

Don't mistaken this for praise for FPN, by the way.

I know it's possible, even easy, to take the advice you gave, and sometimes members go too far in their expressions of their own feelings. Threads like this one that attract the most vociferous members also often deteriorate like this one has. Once that happens they do no favours to FPGeeks and are even more likely to send new and old members away than to encourage anyone to come here.

We have an "Ignore function" on FPG just like FPN does and in times like this more and more members go to their Settings and Edit their ignore lists. This feature works particularly well.

Thankyou! I found the Ignore function, tried it and delighted how well it works. Adding a name and coming back to this thread to see all the gaps is really cool. I would have continued to visit FPG more often had I discovered it earlier. I don't know if it will do enough to raise my confidence to say much - second guessing in case of attack doesn't make it much fun - but I do like to read.

Now, is there a way to have New Posts exclude some sub-forums (such as For Sale)? That would make it pretty much perfect.

In order to hide all of the "For Sale" threads when you select "New Posts" you would need to click on any random post in the "For Sale" forum first, and then go to "Forum Tools" and 'Mark this forum read." Sadly that is something you would need to repeat every 24 hours in order to not see those posts the next time you select "New Posts."

[mana]

FPG seems more aloof...

Isn't that interesting? It's always felt exactly the opposite to me. I've tried being civil, helpful, and courteous, but never once felt part of FPN. I put it down to there being hardly any discernible sense of humour, which simply doesn't fit with how I operate.

Anyway, I am much tickled at your resorting to the F-word in order to demand people consider what response their post will trigger before posting. What, I wonder, is the reaction you expect the F-word to trigger?

What'd be really nice would be somewhere where wandering off topic and being a bit more "chatty" was tolerated, but had some moderation to curb the larger excesses of personal expression. It can be done, but maybe only among woodworkers. At least that's the only examples I've ever seen. Perhaps my selection criteria are a bit narrow...?

Fuck, for me, is a word like any other. It is not censored here and that is in my opinion a good thing. If it raises an eyebrow here I am open to having a civil discussion about it afterwards. And on the topic of threads veering off-topic... I very much recommend starting a new thread. Derailing a thread is not kind, but rather, fucking selfish. The same thing applies to not wearing a mask. Fucking selfish.

[Amanda]

Beaut. That was easy enough to do and it cleaned up the New Posts list very nicely - once a day isn't so bad.

The other thing I just discovered that cleans up New Posts even more efficiently is 'Mark Forums Read'. Oops. It really does. LOL.

[Chuck Naill]

FPG seems more aloof...

Isn't that interesting? It's always felt exactly the opposite to me. I've tried being civil, helpful, and courteous, but never once felt part of FPN. I put it down to there being hardly any discernible sense of humour, which simply doesn't fit with how I operate.

Anyway, I am much tickled at your resorting to the F-word in order to demand people consider what response their post will trigger before posting. What, I wonder, is the reaction you expect the F-word to trigger?

What'd be really nice would be somewhere where wandering off topic and being a bit more "chatty" was tolerated, but had some moderation to curb the larger excesses of personal expression. It can be done, but maybe only among woodworkers. At least that's the only examples I've ever seen. Perhaps my selection criteria are a bit narrow...?

Fuck, for me, is a word like any other. It is not censored here and that is in my opinion a good thing. If it raises an eyebrow here I am open to having a civil discussion about it afterwards. And on the topic of threads veering off-topic... I very much recommend starting a new thread. Derailing a thread is not kind, but rather, fucking selfish. The same thing applies to not wearing a mask. Fucking selfish.

Just an observation, people who drop "f bombs" do it so frequently that it make them appear comical, like John Goodman in The Big LeBowski. And, then when used as an adverb often it makes you think the writer is so limited in language what only one modifier is all they know how to use. Essentally, it is the overusage that renders is impotent.

That said, how we choose to communicate will determine how others thinks of us. When we hit our finger using a hammer saying "dog gone" might just not be the expletive required.

I think what I want to say is, self control is an acquired skill that must be mastered if we want to live in community with others. Yes, we all have rights. Yes, freedom of speech and all that. However, being free to say what you want and then thinking there are no consequences is foolish.

[guyy]

Didn’t Col. Kurtz have something to say about “fuck”?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1lF3UKLDQ

[TSherbs]

Didn’t Col. Kurtz have something to say about “fuck”?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1lF3UKLDQ

Not Conrad's Kurtz, no.

[TSherbs]

What'd be really nice would be somewhere where wandering off topic and being a bit more "chatty" was tolerated, but had some moderation to curb the larger excesses of personal expression.

yup

[grainweevil]

And on the topic of threads veering off-topic... I very much recommend starting a new thread. Derailing a thread is not kind, but rather, fucking selfish.

But forum discussion is, well, discussion, and they tend to be organic things that take in side roads and byways. If you go waaaay down a side road, then yes, it's probably sufficiently interesting to be worth starting a new thread. But a brief digression from a thread about ink wells to, I dunno, cats and their tendency to sit on any piece of paper you're trying to read (for example) doesn't really justify a new thread, does it? You're a dog lover? Just skip them. Or politely point out things are going off topic and make a contribution to steer it back. S'not hard. All in all, not really worth the effing and blinding.

Regarding avoiding the Sale threads in the What's New list, I've found starting any visit to FPG on the Classifieds forum page and double clicking the box with the speech bubble to the left of the sub forum headings sorts that out. You need only double click the blue ones, as those are the only sub forums that'll have new posts. Once they go grey, they're marked as read.

[Sailor Kenshin]

At some point, I checked in to the FPN site, and saw a message: 'We will be back online in 30 minutes.'

That was early yeaterday.

[Chrissy]

And on the topic of threads veering off-topic... I very much recommend starting a new thread. Derailing a thread is not kind, but rather, fucking selfish.

But forum discussion is, well, discussion, and they tend to be organic things that take in side roads and byways. If you go waaaay down a side road, then yes, it's probably sufficiently interesting to be worth starting a new thread. But a brief digression from a thread about ink wells to, I dunno, cats and their tendency to sit on any piece of paper you're trying to read (for example) doesn't really justify a new thread, does it? You're a dog lover? Just skip them. Or politely point out things are going off topic and make a contribution to steer it back. S'not hard. All in all, not really worth the effing and blinding.

Regarding avoiding the Sale threads in the What's New list, I've found starting any visit to FPG on the Classifieds forum page and double clicking the box with the speech bubble to the left of the sub forum headings sorts that out. You need only double click the blue ones, as those are the only sub forums that'll have new posts. Once they go grey, they're marked as read.

The only problem is that sometimes involves many more clicks than just marking the whole forum read.

[Farmboy]

Didn’t Col. Kurtz have something to say about “fuck”?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb1lF3UKLDQ

I believe it was Carlin that had comments on proper usage.

https://youtu.be/xZkb4TPI-Lo

[welch]

At some point, I checked in to the FPN site, and saw a message: 'We will be back online in 30 minutes.'

That was early yesterday.

FPN says:

Update 2020-11-20 23:30 GMT / 2020-11-21 18:30 EST:
Making software and databases work prior to conversion

Looks like they are still working through "software and databases". Not sure what that means...and, yes, I've been a "software engineer" since 1981. Sounds like a generic "we're still working on something" statement.

[grainweevil]

Regarding avoiding the Sale threads in the What's New list, I've found starting any visit to FPG on the Classifieds forum page and double clicking the box with the speech bubble to the left of the sub forum headings sorts that out. You need only double click the blue ones, as those are the only sub forums that'll have new posts. Once they go grey, they're marked as read.

The only problem is that sometimes involves many more clicks than just marking the whole forum read.

Umm, not sure how, but yep, okay, if that's what you find for you.

I've just realised you can do the double click thingy from the main forum board too, but then that involves some scrolling down. Who needs that?

At some point, I checked in to the FPN site, and saw a message: 'We will be back online in 30 minutes.'

That was early yeaterday.

Perhaps FPN minutes are like Cornish miles? Longer than usual. At one point yesterday I got nothing but a Username/Password drop down on the main page. I tried it, just for fun, but failed to gain entry to the hallowed halls.