FPG Refuges Status Area: The 2020 FPN Diaspora

[TSherbs]

My brain can only handle so many platforms. I came to reddit last, and it hasn't stuck.

[Chuck Naill]

I like Gonzo!

Browsed the reddit... oh what an intimidating place, even more so than fpn. So disorganised. At least on a forum, you can go towards threads of interest more easily.

I suppose we can have a completely different experiences, but I have never felt intimidated by FPN. Simply never.

[Morgaine]

I received a letter from someone who was looking forward to sharing a picture of her nice shiny Aurora 88 Venus pen, resized photos to a sensible size, summoned up courage, posted on the reddit, but the thread was immediately blocked. "The message said they were protecting the site from mean people, or something like that ..."

Best guess: Likely something in the way you sent it, perhaps the server you were using, was flagged and blocked.

@Morgaine Could it be that your friend has a mean reputation that precedes her and is known to an admin person at Reddit. Is it the same banned ink reviewer that you mentionned in the Chat?

No, someone completely different. And definitely not mean. Neither are.

[Morgaine]

I like Gonzo!

Browsed the reddit... oh what an intimidating place, even more so than fpn. So disorganised. At least on a forum, you can go towards threads of interest more easily.

I suppose we can have a completely different experiences, but I have never felt intimidated by FPN. Simply never.

Intimidating not quite the correct word for fpn. Arrogant maybe. Old Boys Network kind of thing.

[Morgaine]

My brain can only handle so many platforms. I came to reddit last, and it hasn't stuck.

It's like facebook, endless scrolling disorganised mess. Scroll rather than book.

[Chuck Naill]

I like Gonzo!

Browsed the reddit... oh what an intimidating place, even more so than fpn. So disorganised. At least on a forum, you can go towards threads of interest more easily.

I suppose we can have a completely different experiences, but I have never felt intimidated by FPN. Simply never.

Intimidating not quite the correct word for fpn. Arrogant maybe. Old Boys Network kind of thing.

Perhaps, but again, YMMV is operative. I've found plenty of assistance and good conversations.

[An old bloke]

I like Gonzo!

Browsed the reddit... oh what an intimidating place, even more so than fpn. So disorganised. At least on a forum, you can go towards threads of interest more easily.

I suppose we can have a completely different experiences, but I have never felt intimidated by FPN. Simply never.

Intimidating not quite the correct word for fpn. Arrogant maybe. Old Boys Network kind of thing.

I can't say that I share your opinion. I've never experienced or sensed any arrogance on FPN. Nor have I sensed an Old Boys Network; something with which I have had a good deal of experience having been the 'new boy' too often.

[Jon Szanto]

Regarding FPN, I find it funny and not funny for 'old guys' to say that they never noticed the 'old guy' vibe of a place.

While there are a handful of exceptions, in terms of both posting number, depth of involvement and even mod status, there is still far, far smaller activity from women at FPN than men. This is common across the pen hobby but is changing in most recent years. You can see the change quite well if you go onto the venues that a much younger audience tends to use: reddit, slack, social network groups and live chat / discord areas. In those places, there is a much more balanced group.

Chuck is right in one important, and common, point: YMMV. Everyone's experience is bound to be different but a lot of it stems from the overall social nature of the venue. I can't make a broad claim about FPN being insular or welcoming, as I think it is how you tend to approach it. I joined over 10 years ago and it took almost a year to get any traction. I read for months and then only occasionally posted. If your post doesn't get a response, it is precisely like being at a party where you walk around and absolutely no one talks to you or even looks at you.

Sometimes the experience might include finding questions that interest the people you are asking, which maybe seems odd, but it does catch their attention. Many people hate the aspect of reddit where the n00bs ask the exact same question, often daily, that you have seen hundreds of times before. On FPN, it took me almost a year to find a way into discussions and get to know some of the characters, who knew their stuff, who were blowhards just showing off, etc. The key was 2 or 3 people answering in depth a question that really needed help. All of those very helpful people are still friends, still people I rely upon for pen knowledge and, best of all, people I have now met in real life and consider personal friends. It isn't like that on every forum, but your initial interactsions and how you may try to 'grow' a relationship with a community are likely to be a different experience for each person.

I can easily see how people can be turned off or felt welcomed by almost every platform I engage on. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

[Fermata]

Regarding FPN, I find it funny and not funny for 'old guys' to say that they never noticed the 'old guy' vibe of a place.

While there are a handful of exceptions, in terms of both posting number, depth of involvement and even mod status, there is still far, far smaller activity from women at FPN than men. This is common across the pen hobby but is changing in most recent years. You can see the change quite well if you go onto the venues that a much younger audience tends to use: reddit, slack, social network groups and live chat / discord areas. In those places, there is a much more balanced group.

Chuck is right in one important, and common, point: YMMV. Everyone's experience is bound to be different but a lot of it stems from the overall social nature of the venue. I can't make a broad claim about FPN being insular or welcoming, as I think it is how you tend to approach it. I joined over 10 years ago and it took almost a year to get any traction. I read for months and then only occasionally posted. If your post doesn't get a response, it is precisely like being at a party where you walk around and absolutely no one talks to you or even looks at you.

Sometimes the experience might include finding questions that interest the people you are asking, which maybe seems odd, but it does catch their attention. Many people hate the aspect of reddit where the n00bs ask the exact same question, often daily, that you have seen hundreds of times before. On FPN, it took me almost a year to find a way into discussions and get to know some of the characters, who knew their stuff, who were blowhards just showing off, etc. The key was 2 or 3 people answering in depth a question that really needed help. All of those very helpful people are still friends, still people I rely upon for pen knowledge and, best of all, people I have now met in real life and consider personal friends. It isn't like that on every forum, but your initial interactsions and how you may try to 'grow' a relationship with a community are likely to be a different experience for each person.

I can easily see how people can be turned off or felt welcomed by almost every platform I engage on. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

The character of FPN has changed considerably over the years in that there used to be broad range of expert knowledge with Old Griz, Isaacson, Sorowka, Binder and many others, the skillsbase is not of the same quality as it used to be. To add to that, FPN has deteriorated considerably over the past three years with far too much confrontation across the entire forum which resulted in people being kicked out and others who just gave up on the whole deal. One Mod told me that FPG was just a place for the banned or difficult exFPN people to fall back on and best avoided.

Not sure what has happened with the new arrangement, people seem to be behaving themselves or perhaps the awkward bastards have not come back to play.

[Jon Szanto]

The character of FPN has changed considerably over the years in that there used to be broad range of expert knowledge with Old Griz, Isaacson, Sorowka, Binder and many others, the skillsbase is not of the same quality as it used to be. To add to that, FPN has deteriorated considerably over the past three years with far too much confrontation across the entire forum which resulted in people being kicked out and others who just gave up on the whole deal. One Mod told me that FPG was just a place for the banned or difficult exFPN people to fall back on and best avoided.

Not sure what has happened with the new arrangement, people seem to be behaving themselves or perhaps the awkward bastards have not come back to play.

I don't agree with what "one mod told you", and there are many people here, for years, who were not part of the FPN community. You are correct, though, that a really large part of the 'brain trust' of knowledge and experience are no longer at FPN. Groups change over time, and there are many, many fine pen people no longer posting or associated there. OTOH, there is somewhat a waning of interest in vintage pens at the same time that a new crowd of people is joining into the FP world, lots of them amassing collections of contemporary pens and cheap Asian fountain pens. There are good discussions there about a lot of this - not something I happen to be completely into, but it ends up making sense with the change in the public at large.

At the end of the day, all groups of people change over time. It is inevitable. I miss people who used to post here, too, but I understand that it happens. I also realize that *I* am changing, in my interests and my need for information, so my own interactions with forums have altered over time.

[An old bloke]

Regarding FPN, I find it funny and not funny for 'old guys' to say that they never noticed the 'old guy' vibe of a place.

While there are a handful of exceptions, in terms of both posting number, depth of involvement and even mod status, there is still far, far smaller activity from women at FPN than men. This is common across the pen hobby but is changing in most recent years. You can see the change quite well if you go onto the venues that a much younger audience tends to use: reddit, slack, social network groups and live chat / discord areas. In those places, there is a much more balanced group.

Chuck is right in one important, and common, point: YMMV. Everyone's experience is bound to be different but a lot of it stems from the overall social nature of the venue. I can't make a broad claim about FPN being insular or welcoming, as I think it is how you tend to approach it. I joined over 10 years ago and it took almost a year to get any traction. I read for months and then only occasionally posted. If your post doesn't get a response, it is precisely like being at a party where you walk around and absolutely no one talks to you or even looks at you.

Sometimes the experience might include finding questions that interest the people you are asking, which maybe seems odd, but it does catch their attention. Many people hate the aspect of reddit where the n00bs ask the exact same question, often daily, that you have seen hundreds of times before. On FPN, it took me almost a year to find a way into discussions and get to know some of the characters, who knew their stuff, who were blowhards just showing off, etc. The key was 2 or 3 people answering in depth a question that really needed help. All of those very helpful people are still friends, still people I rely upon for pen knowledge and, best of all, people I have now met in real life and consider personal friends. It isn't like that on every forum, but your initial interactsions and how you may try to 'grow' a relationship with a community are likely to be a different experience for each person.

I can easily see how people can be turned off or felt welcomed by almost every platform I engage on. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I agree that every platform has its strengths and weaknesses, and I'll even add, a personality. It is undeniable that any group function develops a personality from the character of its members and the purpose it serves, and that the dynamics of the group is a result of its personality. This is true whether the group is a club, a professional association, a work place, or an internet chat group. The differences and parallels between this group and FPN offers proof.

With no intention of sexism, one could wonder if the prevalence of more males on internet discussion sites because men and women tend to socialise differently. One could also wonder if the ratio is an aspect of the group's personality. I don't know. I do know that there are several women who are frequent participants, and long established members of FPN as there are here.

Having been the 'new boy' at school and later in the workplace too frequently, I learned to acceptance and recognition take time. Is that unwelcoming or is a feature of being a new, unknown personality? Again, I don't know. I do suggest that how one perceives it depends upon one's perspective, and possibly how one derives his or her sense of self-worth.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

On the sex difference: it seems that the majority of show-and-tell videos for fountain pens on YouTube are by males, but the majority of videos about how the pens are used in daily life, and the paraphernalia associated with such endeavours are by females.

At least that is what I get when I am searching for specific aspects - like setting up a bullet journal for example.

As for FPN, it feels a bit sterile now compared with, say, 5 years ago. No doubt partly this is due to the leaching away of certain characters and experts, and perhaps partly is a function of the exceptionally restrictive rules of the site which practically deny the possibility of having anything resembling a normal human conversation.

[An old bloke]

'... the site which practically deny the possibility of having anything resembling a normal human conversation.'

That is regrettable. After all, one of the functions of any common interest group should be to promote discussion, and conversation is a intregal part of discussion.

[RobJohnson]

On the sex difference: it seems that the majority of show-and-tell videos for fountain pens on YouTube are by males, but the majority of videos about how the pens are used in daily life, and the paraphernalia associated with such endeavours are by females.

At least that is what I get when I am searching for specific aspects - like setting up a bullet journal for example.

As for FPN, it feels a bit sterile now compared with, say, 5 years ago. No doubt partly this is due to the leaching away of certain characters and experts, and perhaps partly is a function of the exceptionally restrictive rules of the site which practically deny the possibility of having anything resembling a normal human conversation.

It all depends on what people want from their choice of pen sites, personally I would prefer an atmosphere of shared knowledge and the minimum of confrontation. There are people who want to make themselves look taller by walking on the backs of those beneath them, happens here, FPN and other places.

We have all seen some really poor examples of how to treat another human being in the past 12 months.

As far as I can see, in terms of atmosphere and being a good place to be FPN has never been better for quite some time FPG needs to recover from a damn good kicking.

[silverlifter]

As far as I can see, in terms of atmosphere and being a good place to be FPN has never been better for quite some time FPG needs to recover from a damn good kicking.

Yep. Astounding what moderation can do for any online community. Same on reddit: those subs that are actively moderated are invariably more interesting to read and participate.

[TSherbs]

Regarding FPN, I find it funny and not funny for 'old guys' to say that they never noticed the 'old guy' vibe of a place.

While there are a handful of exceptions, in terms of both posting number, depth of involvement and even mod status, there is still far, far smaller activity from women at FPN than men. This is common across the pen hobby but is changing in most recent years. You can see the change quite well if you go onto the venues that a much younger audience tends to use: reddit, slack, social network groups and live chat / discord areas. In those places, there is a much more balanced group.

Chuck is right in one important, and common, point: YMMV. Everyone's experience is bound to be different but a lot of it stems from the overall social nature of the venue. I can't make a broad claim about FPN being insular or welcoming, as I think it is how you tend to approach it. I joined over 10 years ago and it took almost a year to get any traction. I read for months and then only occasionally posted. If your post doesn't get a response, it is precisely like being at a party where you walk around and absolutely no one talks to you or even looks at you.

Sometimes the experience might include finding questions that interest the people you are asking, which maybe seems odd, but it does catch their attention. Many people hate the aspect of reddit where the n00bs ask the exact same question, often daily, that you have seen hundreds of times before. On FPN, it took me almost a year to find a way into discussions and get to know some of the characters, who knew their stuff, who were blowhards just showing off, etc. The key was 2 or 3 people answering in depth a question that really needed help. All of those very helpful people are still friends, still people I rely upon for pen knowledge and, best of all, people I have now met in real life and consider personal friends. It isn't like that on every forum, but your initial interactsions and how you may try to 'grow' a relationship with a community are likely to be a different experience for each person.

I can easily see how people can be turned off or felt welcomed by almost every platform I engage on. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

The character of FPN has changed considerably over the years in that there used to be broad range of expert knowledge with Old Griz, Isaacson, Sorowka, Binder and many others, the skillsbase is not of the same quality as it used to be. To add to that, FPN has deteriorated considerably over the past three years with far too much confrontation across the entire forum which resulted in people being kicked out and others who just gave up on the whole deal. One Mod told me that FPG was just a place for the banned or difficult exFPN people to fall back on and best avoided.

Not sure what has happened with the new arrangement, people seem to be behaving themselves or perhaps the awkward bastards have not come back to play.

In my experience over 7+ years, FPN has been a more respectful environment. I appreciate the moderation, despite it's excess at times.

[Jon Szanto]

In my experience over 7+ years, FPN has been a more respectful environment. I appreciate the moderation, despite it's excess at times.

I appreciate the moderation except it's excess at times. As for respect... enforced respect is often basic subservience. However, what you end up with (there) is a basic atmosphere that engenders better behavior in general. What might be an affect to begin with becomes a common behavior. At the end of the day, any of these places can feel comfortable if it is the atmosphere you happen to be comfortable in. I suppose that is why I frequent many different venues.

To the viewers at home, I'm not in disagreement with TSherbs, just looking at it from a different perspective.

[silverlifter]

I appreciate the moderation except it's excess at times.

Good moderation, as I have said here before, is like janitorial work. It should almost always be at the service of the community, be unobtrusive, but observant/attendant.

Our experience here over the last several months shows how quickly things can degenerate when there is neither a clear code of conduct, nor someone around to ensure that it is observed. In the case of the troll, banning them and removing all of their posts and "thanks" immediately would not, imo, have been excessive, but appropriate.

Similarly, there have been threads where someone chiming in with a gentle reminder that ad hominem comments, for example, are not constructive would have served to de-escalate tensions, especially given that all of us are struggling with so much other shit going on right now...

[Jon Szanto]

Good moderation, as I have said here before, is like janitorial work. It should almost always be at the service of the community, be unobtrusive, but observant/attendant.

Our experience here over the last several months shows how quickly things can degenerate when there is neither a clear code of conduct, nor someone around to ensure that it is observed. In the case of the troll, banning them and removing all of their posts and "thanks" immediately would not, imo, have been excessive, but appropriate.

Similarly, there have been threads where someone chiming in with a gentle reminder that ad hominem comments, for example, are not constructive would have served to de-escalate tensions, especially given that all of us are struggling with so much other shit going on right now...

Absolutely.

Hehe... maybe my tag line should be "Everything in moderation, including moderation."

[TSherbs]

I agree with each of you. Well put.