FPG Refuges Status Area: The 2020 FPN Diaspora

[eachan]

I think they can do without mine in future.

As they could have in the past.

What are you? The appointed FPN defender? If you are they're in trouble. That was just about the most pointless response I've seen on either board.

[TSherbs]

Take a look how long this shit hangs around. Best part is that the mod (GP) wrote me privately that it wasn't really my fault...

Attachment 59277

word

That's longer than some felony charges

[kazoolaw]

I think they can do without mine in future.

As they could have in the past.

What are you? The appointed FPN defender? If you are they're in trouble. That was just about the most pointless response I've seen on either board.

E-
Regarding pointless: please reread your comment that I quoted.
Both FPG and FPN will survive without any one of us.

[Ron Z]

Jon, that the warnings are still there may be an oversite, something that got caught up in one of the upgrades. The system is supposed to clear after so many days. With over 100K registered users, nobody goes looking at all of the profiles. A note to a mod, or Wim if the moderator can't remove them, might get them removed.

[kazoolaw]

Take a look how long this shit hangs around. Best part is that the mod (GP) wrote me privately that it wasn't really my fault...

Attachment 59277

That's not so bad, I have a warning from 2009. Hasn't kept me awake nights.

[Jon Szanto]

Jon, that the warnings are still there may be an oversite, something that got caught up in one of the upgrades. The system is supposed to clear after so many days. With over 100K registered users, nobody goes looking at all of the profiles. A note to a mod, or Wim if the moderator can't remove them, might get them removed.

Thanks, Ron, but I only put it here in the thread for perspective. It doesn't bother me a bit, mostly because I know that I'm not a bad person worthy of any major admonishment. GP and I had a good discussion back-channel at the time and I never paid any attention to these warning things... until this thread reminded me of the mechanism. It's all good, and thanks.

[An old bloke]

... Then again, I feel like forums are slowly dying out in general.

If they are, then it is because participants become frustrated or disgusted by all the advertising. I know that is exactly why one website I moderated has shrunk from its former self after the owner sold it for a good price to an advert hosting firm.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

When I mentioned this a few posts back it was kind of ignored, so it is interesting to read that @adhoc noticed something similar. I am not convinced it is solely down to increased advertising, though that certainly doesn't help. Unfortunately, I am not a member of any mainstream interest groups, so my next statement is somewhat under-qualified, but this waning of engagement that I perceive seems to be more obvious on sites related to things that have developed a kind of hipster quality to them - EDC, Carryology, onebag, fountain pen sites and so on.

It's just an observation, and given my outsider status, there are probably large swathes of the picture I am not seeing.


edit: I guess I was hinting at the up and down tick that marks trends manifesting in the drop-off in forum engagement. All a bit of a guess really.

[Jon Szanto]

... Then again, I feel like forums are slowly dying out in general.

If they are, then it is because participants become frustrated or disgusted by all the advertising. I know that is exactly why one website I moderated has shrunk from its former self after the owner sold it for a good price to an advert hosting firm.

Actually, I believe adhoc has a valid point, completely aside from the monetary side of running sites/forums. There has recently been a fair amount of writing about the change in modes of communication online, and the fact that traditional forum discussion formats are seeing less and less use and traffic, as well as catering to an aging demographic. Younger audiences have gone to other modes of connection and communication, with quicker/shorter msg formats, visual media, and primarily phone-centric apps being preferred. This parallels the drop in email use for personal communication in deference to text and other messaging apps.

There are a zillion younger pen fans out there right now, and very few are interested in old-school format forums. Look at reddit, look at slack communities, YouTube channels... It isn't the ads that are causing the drop, it's a change in platforms and demographics. That said, all the ads suck, big-time.

[Chuck Naill]

I - and several others - commented in the the thread about the offensive ads. Wim "disappeared" the comments and locked the thread. That's what gets my back up with FPN. Wim's sheer bloody arrogance in daring to take down other people's comments. FPN wouldn't exist without our input! I think they can do without mine in future.

No one likes a whiner!

[kazoolaw]

Jon-
Thanks for teaching me a new thing: slack communities. As if I needed more confirmation that I'm old.
As someone who's been on slack and Reddit, how would you compare the content/style/community to forums like FPG & FPN? How about archiving info?

[eachan]

I - and several others - commented in the the thread about the offensive ads. Wim "disappeared" the comments and locked the thread. That's what gets my back up with FPN. Wim's sheer bloody arrogance in daring to take down other people's comments. FPN wouldn't exist without our input! I think they can do without mine in future.

No one likes a whiner!

Well be quiet then, Chuck, and we'll pretend you're not there.

[Jon Szanto]

Thanks for teaching me a new thing: slack communities. As if I needed more confirmation that I'm old.
As someone who's been on slack and Reddit, how would you compare the content/style/community to forums like FPG & FPN? How about archiving info?

I wouldn't have known except for two connections. Slack came into being primarily as a workgroup tool, and a lot of tech and other large companies use it for in-house communication, though it isn't limited to that. I only monitor 2 of these, one very large, one exceedingly small.

The large one is one that was set up by Brad Dowdy, who is the guy behind Pen Addict. Brad was already a popular person on the pen scene (and related - pencils, paper, etc) due to his blog and his reviews. He also has a very popular podcast (which is ANOTHER thing that has put forums in the dust). Anyway, at some point he decided to create a Slack group so people could discuss between each other all this stuff, a lot like being at a pen show after dark, in the bar. While they can be set up in many ways, his is common in that there are sub-sections for people to post about various topics - fountain pens, pen_sales, general, repair, etc.

However, it is very much like reddit in the non-permanence of material. It is a platform that was built for immediacy and of-the-moment. For the generation that never lets the phone leave their hand. As such, it is a terrible platform for either in-depth conversation or (especially) a historical repository of knowledge (say, for instance, like the "Repair" forum at FPN). It is not easy to search and... well, just totally different from a forum. It can be very disorienting to see all the various comments coming in as one big stream, always scrolling out of view. It can be difficult to find posts from hours or a day ago. It really can be JUST like walking into a noisy room full of people talking about a particular subject. And the PA Slack has a lot of rabid pen people, and a fair number of the 'influencers' in the newer crowd of pen peeps, so a lot goes down. They also tend to meet up at pen shows, when those happen.

Conversely, the other group I'm in maybe is about a dozen or so, all from a particular 'background' but almost like finding a little back room at a pen show and getting away from the crowd and just having an intimate group chat. Very little traffic but for some of the people, it is the only place I can see them or talk with them in a group setting.

Meh, sorry, I babbled. That should give a bit of a view to the differences between some of this and forums. BTW, I have to laugh when people talk about how big FPN is. FPN shows 117,000 members, but the reddit "fountain pens" group, only around for 10 years, is at 186,000 members, and there is a LOT of activity. Repetitious, youthful, churning activity, but activity nonetheless. That's a good thing, I think.

[kazoolaw]

Just watching the passing parade.

[adhoc]

I can say I've observed the same. Forums are in general dying out and platforms like reddit are much more popular. The reddit fountain pens is very lively, but like Jon said, it's Lamy safaris all day long (Lamy Safari being a symbol for entry level pens) with an interesting post here and there for someone more experienced. I appreciate the enthusiasm of newcomers, but I wish it had more posts about other things pens related.

The subreddit in question must have some bots that auto downvote, or so I suspect. There's also rarely a follow up if you help someone or even an answer really. I don't know, I still prefer forums for discussions.

Also, there is most definitely "hipster quality" to pens like EoC wrote. I've seen this with pens, mechanical keyboards, and headphones.

[guyy]

FPN shows no content for me now, only thread titles. I click on them , and nothing, no text, no pics, no posts.

[Ole Juul]

FPN shows no content for me now, only thread titles. I click on them , and nothing, no text, no pics, no posts.

Well it's an hour later and it's all there for me.

[penwash]

I can say I've observed the same. Forums are in general dying out and platforms like reddit are much more popular. The reddit fountain pens is very lively, but like Jon said, it's Lamy safaris all day long (Lamy Safari being a symbol for entry level pens) with an interesting post here and there for someone more experienced. I appreciate the enthusiasm of newcomers, but I wish it had more posts about other things pens related.

The subreddit in question must have some bots that auto downvote, or so I suspect. There's also rarely a follow up if you help someone or even an answer really. I don't know, I still prefer forums for discussions.

Also, there is most definitely "hipster quality" to pens like EoC wrote. I've seen this with pens, mechanical keyboards, and headphones.

I agree that the r/fountainpens subreddit is not a good place for discussions.

You can, however save a post so it's in a list that you can refer to in the future.

I think among the currently available forums, we have a good mix of content vs energy ratio.

Oh that reminds me. There are also pen-related Discord.com chat servers.

[guyy]

FPN shows no content for me now, only thread titles. I click on them , and nothing, no text, no pics, no posts.

Well it's an hour later and it's all there for me.

I am still not seeing anything. I’m on iOS & Safari

[Jon Szanto]

Oh that reminds me. There are also pen-related Discord.com chat servers.

Thanks, Will, I should have included those, even though I haven't taken part. All part of the shifting demographics.

I think one of the 'dangers' (though that is a bit strong) of the reddit model is that - as it is currently made up - the fountain pen group is all so young and so new that it becomes a self-reinforcing echo chamber. Without a broad mix of users, especially those with experience, I see a LOT of misinformation simply get amplified and made routine, with unfortunate circumstances for the future. Yes, it could likely happen anywhere, but without a convenient memory (reddit really *is* of the moment), it is really hard to counteract the herd mentality. But it is what it is. All things change.