Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    23
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Just curious, I don't remember reading this anywhere.

    Is iron gall ink ok in lever fill/ pens with rubber sacs?

    I just got a couple bottles of ESSRI ink and am curious if this can cause me problems?

    Thanks,

    dan

  2. #2
    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    616
    Thanks
    359
    Thanked 772 Times in 355 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    When those pens were carried and used by everyone, almost all of them would have been filled with iron gall inks.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to silverlifter For This Useful Post:

    A Smug Dill (November 9th, 2020), Pterodactylus (November 8th, 2020), Sailor Kenshin (November 12th, 2020), welch (November 14th, 2020)

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    San Marino
    Posts
    100
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 30 Times in 23 Posts
    Rep Power
    6

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    imho there may be problems if you use iron gall inks with vacuum fillers (or c/c pens with agitators).

  5. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    According to this chemical resistance chart, natural rubber is okay with gallic and tannic acid, but it doesn't like hydrochloric acid.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Tweel For This Useful Post:

    A Smug Dill (November 9th, 2020)

  7. #5
    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    11,400
    Thanks
    6,872
    Thanked 10,361 Times in 3,977 Posts
    Rep Power
    24

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Smug Dill View Post
    (Ha, I see @Tweel has the same idea while I was editing the image!)
    You might be interested to learn that on FPG everyone can edit and even delete their posts forever.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

  8. #6
    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    775
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 618 Times in 344 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    This gets asked all the time. Iron gall inks are fine in lever fillers.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to guyy For This Useful Post:

    Ole Juul (November 9th, 2020), Ray-VIgo (November 12th, 2020), welch (November 14th, 2020)

  10. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    23
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 43 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Cool... I have turned a sac to goo before (don't remember what I was doing but I remember it being all slimy).

    Anyway- good to know. Thank you,

    dan

  11. #8
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Carlisle, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    4,907
    Thanks
    1,396
    Thanked 6,390 Times in 2,505 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    These questions come up again and again about dissolving sacs. For those who buy their sacs from The Pen Sac Co., you could ask Peter before your next order to placate your concerns. I expect he has answered so many times he has a fact sheet ready to go.

  12. #9
    Senior Member Ole Juul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Coalmont, BC, Canada
    Posts
    404
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 400 Times in 208 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Konrad Żurawski of KWZ inks has a page on this subject too. Fountain pens and Iron Gall inks.

    He's got quite a range or iron gall inks, by the way.

  13. #10
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    9,827
    Thanked 6,081 Times in 2,212 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Smug Dill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dankdan63 View Post
    I have turned a sac to goo before
    http://www.indy-pen-dance.com/Inks-T...-the-Ugly.html
    I believe that's partially true...Ole Juul's link (i.e.Konrad's article) is measured and explains why ink sacks might "melt".....

  14. #11
    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    8,351
    Thanks
    9,827
    Thanked 6,081 Times in 2,212 Posts
    Rep Power
    14

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by A Smug Dill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Yazeh View Post
    I believe that's partially true...
    What part of the content in the panel with the heading of “CAUTION” makes it less than wholly true? I don't doubt for a moment Richard did in fact encounter one or more Noodler's inks (which he did not name or identify specifically) that turned latex sacs to goo. I gave the link to the article to show the O.P. that, yes, I think it's entirely plausible he had turned a sac to goo by no other reason than simply using certain inks in it. However, since — as far as I'm aware — Noodler's doesn't make any iron-gall inks, and the O.P.'s question was specifically to do with using iron-gall inks in pens with rubber sacs, I don't think he should be worrying primarily about that. I wasn't trying to explore why or how specifically he managed to turn a sac to goo before, or posit how to avoid it from happening in the future generally.
    "Fountain pen before inking with Iron Gall ink have to be thoroughly washed – especially if other types of waterproof inks were used in particular pen. Similarly, if we change ink in fountain pen from Iron Gall ink to a different type of waterproof ink we should wash them thoroughly. Iron Gall inks can interact with"
    This is from Konrad's link.

    I believe what could have happened is simply not washing thoroughly a pen. And nothing is more difficult that washing a lever filler with a stubborn ink. The combination of a Noodler's ink and Sailor's could be fatal from what I understand. Or using one of Noodler's speciality inks, like Kung Te-Cheng, Whaleman's Sepia or one of the Baystate inks. Though I have (modern) pen with Baystate in it for nearly a year and I'm still waiting for it to explode....
    Also, human nature, many people don't tell the truth when they have done something they "shouldn't have" been doing... So they tell the person who repairs, I did everything the way it shouldn't have been done...it must be the ink's fault... Maybe they didn't clean properly and didn't want to berated by one of those ink hygiene gurus.....


    It was more of a, “Don't worry, you can turn a sac to goo without using iron-gall inks, you won't be the first to do so, and in all likelihood using iron-gall inks won't turn a sac to goo, according to the rubber chemical resistance information we found.”
    Fair enough.....

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Yazeh For This Useful Post:

    Ole Juul (November 12th, 2020)

  16. #12
    Member Turquoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    82
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 48 Times in 28 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

    Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

  17. #13
    Senior Member OCArt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    205
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 89 Times in 59 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    But if you read the entire article you'll see he says: " you can use iron gall inks such as Montblanc Blue-Black and Diamine Registrar’s ink with impunity."

    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

    Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to OCArt For This Useful Post:

    silverlifter (November 12th, 2020)

  19. #14
    Senior Member Ole Juul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Coalmont, BC, Canada
    Posts
    404
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 400 Times in 208 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

    Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.
    I know you're trying to be helpful, and I thank you for that.

    But that article is quoted every time iron gall is mentioned and it gets a bit tiresome. Many think that it is overstated and questionable. The fact is that modern iron gall inks are not like that and many of us use then with impunity.

    A more reasonable report by a chemist and manufacturer of iron gall inks can be found here. (That's the same I mentioned in post #11.)

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Ole Juul For This Useful Post:

    Yazeh (November 13th, 2020)

  21. #15
    Senior Member FredRydr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Carlisle, Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    4,907
    Thanks
    1,396
    Thanked 6,390 Times in 2,505 Posts
    Rep Power
    18

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Confirmation bias is a real bitch at times.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FredRydr For This Useful Post:

    Ole Juul (November 12th, 2020), Yazeh (November 13th, 2020)

  23. #16
    Senior Member guyy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Brooklyn NY
    Posts
    775
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 618 Times in 344 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

    Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.
    Not gold.

    So ig ink is PERFECTLY FINE for gold nib pens where the only metal in contact with the ink is gold, such as lever fillers & piston fillers.

  24. #17
    Senior Member Ole Juul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Location
    Coalmont, BC, Canada
    Posts
    404
    Thanks
    561
    Thanked 400 Times in 208 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

    Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.
    Not gold.

    So ig ink is PERFECTLY FINE for gold nib pens where the only metal in contact with the ink is gold, such as lever fillers & piston fillers.
    That's the information I'm working on as being the way to go with my vintage pens.

    However, I do believe that modern steel nibs are also resistant, at least to modern iron gall inks.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Ole Juul For This Useful Post:

    Yazeh (November 13th, 2020)

  26. #18
    Senior Member Pterodactylus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    3,885
    Thanks
    2,412
    Thanked 4,804 Times in 1,697 Posts
    Rep Power
    15

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Juul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Turquoise View Post
    See this article by Richard Binder: http://www.richardspens.com/ref/care/inks.htm

    Iron gall inks are highly acidic and can eat any metal parts they come in contact with.
    Not gold.

    So ig ink is PERFECTLY FINE for gold nib pens where the only metal in contact with the ink is gold, such as lever fillers & piston fillers.
    That's the information I'm working on as being the way to go with my vintage pens.

    However, I do believe that modern steel nibs are also resistant, at least to modern iron gall inks.
    True, also cheap modern stainless steel can usually withstand easily modern IG inks.
    My opinion is based on personal experience not hearsay.

    E.G.
    One particular cheap Serwex MB (even with a EMF modified FPrevolution flex nib where I changed the nib geometry (filed)) was continuously filled with ESSRI for several years.
    Without cleaning, without flushing, dried up several time, just refilled it again and again and again.....
    It was long time my favorite sketching pen.
    The cheap steel nib show no damage at all, not even on the edges where I changed the nib geometry.

    I don’t say that a reaction is impossible (what is really impossible? also a nib steel could be faulty) I claim that it is very very unlikely that a modern nib/pen is negatively affected by a IG ink.

    Also think about product liability laws (especially here in Europe), the ink manufacturers are responsible for damages their products causing.
    Do you really think they would sell pen eating inks?
    That would not be a profitable business, and also in general very bad for their reputation.

    Don’t let horror stories/rumors which circulates since many years prevent you from using/trying these awesome inks.

  27. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Pterodactylus For This Useful Post:

    Ole Juul (November 13th, 2020), silverlifter (November 13th, 2020), Yazeh (November 13th, 2020)

  28. #19
    Member Turquoise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    82
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 48 Times in 28 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Iron gall ink and ink sacs?

    That was my point -- only mentioning it from the perspective of effect on metal while considering use of iron gall inks in FPs.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Turquoise For This Useful Post:

    Yazeh (November 17th, 2020)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •