Speaking of conspiracy theories...

[TSherbs]

There were other reasons to think Trump and his father were racist. It is a matter of history and not my personal bias. He's said and done plently for those that would look.

Yes, I have pointed these out on other threads (going back long before the big orange racist baby ran for president.) The feds, for example, charged both men in the 1970s with racially discriminatory business practices. The central Park five affair was in late 80s-early 90s. The birther bullshit came in 2008, but simply continued the pattern of racism and race-baiting

Whatever.



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dneal, this was in response to your erroneous claim that accusations of Trump's racism came after he ran for president. You did not specify which time he ran for president, but you are wrong no matter which presidential contest Trump ran in: the accusations of racism and racist practice go back long before he ran for president.

Why should Chuck or anyone else engage with you when you are wrong, you make claims regardless of the truth (and couch them in terms that make you *sound* like you know what you are talking about), and then you denigrate a poster for actually responding to your request for engagement?

You even made the racist argument of noting that Trump's alleged racism is controverted by the fact that he held an Oval Office ceremony honoring legislation for HBCUs. You do not even understand that that kind of "evidence" does nothing to controvert the charge that he has been racist *at other times.* Misogynists can be married to women and have daughters and still practice misogyny.

That Jefferson fathered children via Sally Hemmings (a slave) does not mean that Jefferson was not an evil, racist slave holder. It most likely means that he was a racist slave holder and a rapist, actually.

Criminals cannot escape the charge of criminality simply because they spend some of their days committing no crimes.

And, by the way, it is not an *anger* management issue to call someone a dick. I just can't find more fitting language for the behavior that you repeat on these back threads. You strike me as addicted to conflict and debate, since you denigrate any conversations that do not fit this style. You call me angry because I use vulgar language, but in that you are mistaken: I just don't think that your behavior back here deserves better. You troll for conflict under the guise of "discussion," but then you denigrate the one or two persons who have the gumption to actually answer your posts with your jaw sticking out in challenge and your faux-humility about your own self-education.

[Chuck Naill]

I would like for @dneal to comment on Jefferson’s rape of Sally Hemings. Some see this as part of the woke movement, and the truth behind the Alamo and Texas independence as the same. So, if you haven’t considered either, how do you decide what’s true? Read a book, perhaps. Or, stay believing she liked having sex with the President and having seven children. Or, thinking Texas is about cowboys.

[dneal]

I would like for @dneal to comment on Jefferson’s rape of Sally Hemings. Some see this as part of the woke movement, and the truth behind the Alamo and Texas independence as the same. So, if you haven’t considered either, how do you decide what’s true? Read a book, perhaps. Or, stay believing she liked having sex with the President and having seven children. Or, thinking Texas is about cowboys.

Why? You haven’t addressed anything specifically so far, and now you want to introduce Jefferson and Sally Hemmings?

[dneal]

There were other reasons to think Trump and his father were racist. It is a matter of history and not my personal bias. He's said and done plently for those that would look.

Yes, I have pointed these out on other threads (going back long before the big orange racist baby ran for president.) The feds, for example, charged both men in the 1970s with racially discriminatory business practices. The central Park five affair was in late 80s-early 90s. The birther bullshit came in 2008, but simply continued the pattern of racism and race-baiting

Whatever.



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dneal, this was in response to your erroneous claim that accusations of Trump's racism came after he ran for president. You did not specify which time he ran for president, but you are wrong no matter which presidential contest Trump ran in: the accusations of racism and racist practice go back long before he ran for president.

Why should Chuck or anyone else engage with you when you are wrong, you make claims regardless of the truth (and couch them in terms that make you *sound* like you know what you are talking about), and then you denigrate a poster for actually responding to your request for engagement?

You even made the racist argument of noting that Trump's alleged racism is controverted by the fact that he held an Oval Office ceremony honoring legislation for HBCUs. You do not even understand that that kind of "evidence" does nothing to controvert the charge that he has been racist *at other times.* Misogynists can be married to women and have daughters and still practice misogyny.

That Jefferson fathered children via Sally Hemmings (a slave) does not mean that Jefferson was not an evil, racist slave holder. It most likely means that he was a racist slave holder and a rapist, actually.

Criminals cannot escape the charge of criminality simply because they spend some of their days committing no crimes.

And, by the way, it is not an *anger* management issue to call someone a dick. I just can't find more fitting language for the behavior that you repeat on these back threads. You strike me as addicted to conflict and debate, since you denigrate any conversations that do not fit this style. You call me angry because I use vulgar language, but in that you are mistaken: I just don't think that your behavior back here deserves better. You troll for conflict under the guise of "discussion," but then you denigrate the one or two persons who have the gumption to actually answer your posts with your jaw sticking out in challenge and your faux-humility about your own self-education.

You're hilarious. Sorry buddy, we've seen your nature. No need to don the NPR tone. Just look at the preceding page. Bannon posted? Your response is "what an a-hole troll", "the douchebag", etc... The way you treated adhoc in the virus thread. You couldn't even resist the "Trump was right" / troll-bait - and we both know you knew what that thread was.

So you first. What do you think of Bannon's "Economic Nationalism" idea. Pros? Cons? Want a conversation or not?

[TSherbs]

I commented directly on your claim that Trump did not face accusations of racism until he ran for president. You are exactly wrong: the accusations predate his candidacy, in the case of the court charges, by 2+ decades.

Now, you say nothing when I present you with facts that catch you in either falsehood or ignorance.

You are a poseur. Chuck has some common sense and sniffed out your hypocrisy and bullshit.

I don't give a shit about Bannon and will never comment on him, certainly not for a fake like you.

[TSherbs]

And Chuck is asking you about Texas and Hemings because he sniffs a racist lurking in you, afraid to come out and reveal itself but quietly working the levers of your comments about blacks and racism and wokism, etc. I smell it too.



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[dneal]

Two sequential posts within 6 minutes of each other. I'm a poseur, blah blah blah. Characterization and dismissal - which is exactly what you do every time you are presented with something that hasn't been approved by your Ministry of Truth.

Glass houses and all that...

[Chuck Naill]

Maybe he has never heard of Hemings or why Texas wanted independence.

[TSherbs]

I sure am characterizing you. I just want to be sure that someone is making it plain.



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[TSherbs]

Maybe he has never heard of Hemings or why Texas wanted independence.

No, he has. He's just kind of pathologically duplicitous in conversation.

[dneal]

I sure am characterizing you. I just want to be sure that someone is making it plain.



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Well, I hope it at least soothes some of your anger.

[dneal]

Maybe he has never heard of Hemings or why Texas wanted independence.

No, he has. He's just kind of pathologically duplicitous in conversation.

Posterity, and all that. Ill take projection for $600, Alex.

[Chuck Naill]

Part of the Woke Movement is to bring to the surface information that has been systematically left out of the history books and public conversations. For example, an 78 year old RN friend had never heard of Juneteeth. I never understood what Texas independance was about and why it fought with Mexico until I read the books. Even with Sally Hemings, no one talked about it until the past several years. The city grew up in drained the pools in the parks the day after Juneteenth. Little girls didn't have access to bathrooms during Jim Crow. My friend experienced this in Montgomery, Alabama. I have never heard you acknowledge any of this as true. You seem to want to pretend it never did exist, or for some still does exist.

There are families that "just don't talk about" matters that are too embarrasing or hurtful. Maybe is was sexual abuse or an affair. When I listen to some of Trump's supporters, any mention of his several failures, lies, and improprieties is met with anger and vigorus defense. Many times people will say they voted for him, but don't like him. In a way it is a self defense. I don't particularily care for Joe Biden, but his nonsense and actiing stupid is not anything I care to defend. I voted against rather than for.

Now we moved to vaccines. It is a matter of choice of course, but the same people choosing not to get a vaccine are the very same people choosing not to distance or wear a mask. It matters not that they could carry and give it to another. So, if I responded to @adhoc is a way you found objectionable, it may have been over this sort of thing. I cannot remember, honestly. That thread began in March when the vaccines were just starting to roll out and be available. I honestly was surprised so many refused and later died.

There are times when information is posted that just a bit more time evaluating would have moderated the point the poster was trying to make. Like I said, I don't watch videos, but I get that you are a video watcher. So I understand that reading books for self studying may not be your thing, but I don't see videos as a reasonable substitute.

Anyway, I am not trying to win or win you over to think as I do, just that a bit of self study might give you pause if you knew more. For example, there is much flawed about the person Martin Luther King, Jr. Nothing this does not deminish the good that he did and the price he paid for doing it. If a white person just wants to focus on the flaws in order to caste the Civil RIghts movement as illegitamate, they do themselves and their friend, family, and neighbors a disservice. Now, you might come back and say, look at all the good Trump as done. We can have that conversation.

[TSherbs]

Part of the Woke Movement is to bring to the surface information that has been systematically left out of the history books and public conversations.

Very much true. Or if not "left out," then at least "devalued and under-examined." Including our own biases, prejudices, and patterns of behavior and those which our culture and institutions promote even without our overt consent or effort. Racism can be "passive" and be just as pernicious, like an invisible toxin in the air (cf radon).





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[TSherbs]

This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021...r-to-reappear/

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[dneal]

Back on topic, which is Biden (for those whose attention span is shorter than his...).

U.S. Covid-19 Deaths for 2021 Surpass Toll From 2020

Article was from precisely one month ago. How many more deaths will he cause in the rest of NOV and DEC?

C'mon, man, I thought he had a plan!

[724Seney]

Nowhere Man.jpeg

[dneal]

Biden Speeches.jpg

[Chuck Naill]

This "theory" hit my feed today...
The Dallas Morning News: Hundreds of QAnon supporters gather at Dealey Plaza in Dallas.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2021...r-to-reappear/

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If they truly believed it, how sad.

I wanted to comment on the "woke movement". Since you have a Times subscription, David Brooks has an interesting read this weekend. And, there was an interesting exchange on PBS Newhour Friday eveing between Caphart and whoever was filling in for Brooks. Youtube has it if interested.

[Chuck Naill]

Nowhere Man.jpeg

Would it be better to have no idea or a wrong idea with power?