Quitting fountain pens and going back to cheap ballpoint pens!

[Pterodactylus]

I would not sign this, I‘m for sure not a collector.
I‘m a user but I spent for sure a lot of money in the pen hobby.
Good quality pens cost money, vintage pens cost money, and if you have more than a couple this sums up......

For sure somebody could also be satisfied with a bunch of Chinese pens, 3.5$ each, nothing wrong with it.

But the generalization „nobody“ in your statement is for sure not true.

You are indeed a user. I have seen your work and it is beautiful. Whether you are a collector or not, I guess depends on your definition. To me, a collector is someone who has way more of something than he or she needs. Could you not enjoy writing with a fountain pen if you only had a couple good ones? I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with collecting fountain pens. They can be lovely things and a joy to own. But, if you own thousands of dollars worth, I find it difficult not to call that a collection unless it's just a couple thousand dollar pens. Which I suppose is possible.

Thanks a lot

True, I can’t say that your definition of a collector is wrong.
In that sense I‘m a collector as I have way more pens than somebody reasonably can argue.

Regarding inks it is even worth, I own more inks than I can use up in several life times, but I enjoy using them.


My personal definition is a bit different, for me a collector is somebody who gains his enjoyment and satisfaction by just owning things (rating them for different aspects like value, completeness, brands, time periods,....).

In that definition I‘m not a collector, I enjoy high quality tools and really use them, not just looking at them, they are tools for me.
Imho a tool which is not used is not worth owning it. (And here a collector in my definition would strongly disagree).

For sure I could also be satisfied with less pens.
They just grew over time.
In the beginning I was also not sure what I like and what to buy (especially vintage), so I just acquired pens which looked interesting to me or which had an aspect that I not already had.

If I would start buying pens from scratch I would for sure end up with a much smaller amount of pens, because I know now what I like and what not.
But I‘m like a black hole, what I acquired once usually stays with me unless it is a complete lemon (and there are a few pens I dislike and I still own (others I gifted (those which I have not a bad feeling gifting it to somebody I like) to get rid of them), I just tossed them in a drawer where they rest (for years), .... I know this is against what I claimed above but try to sell them is kind of too much action for me).

Years ago I stopped buying (ok with some exceptions) pens as I had the feeling I already have all kind of pens/nibs/filling systems and I do not miss anything unique.
Just a fancy new design does not trigger the „want immediately“ feeling for me.

[silverlifter]

Wait! jace, have I got a ballpoint for you!

bic.jpg

[Parsimonious]

I think true collectors are born that way. One of my sons is one. He has a wall full of signed baseballs, a pile of hockey sticks, a cabinet full of Beatles stuff, etc. etc. He just enjoys having them, and there are worse hobbies. I mentioned in a prior post that I have over 30 airbrushes. But, there is a reason. I have a website that reviews them and most were donated for that purpose. I only keep them all because sometimes I hear from people with a question about one, and it's nice to have a sample. I only use two of them and the rest are in a box for my heirs to worry about.

The reason I have a dozen fountain pens is that I wanted to find what I like, and there is much to choose from. And, it has been educational. Three or four feel really good to me. and the rest will sit unused. I'm sure there are more expensive pens that write better than mine, but luckily I'm easily pleased and nothing I put on paper is really worth the extra cost.

[Detman101]

Yes, it is true. I've finally given up on fountain pens. Maybe this is just a temporary break, maybe it is permanent...

I don't know why I thought I would love fountain pens. Maybe I thought it would be more comfortable to use and that longer term it is cheaper to use fountain pens because you can just refill the ink instead of buying a new ballpoint pen every time it's finished - yeah no, neither of these points turned out to be true.

After spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on fountain pens, occasionally going to nibmeisters to "fix" some unruly nibs, the frustration of trying to make fountain pens work for me has led me to a breaking point.

Honestly, the best writing experience I have ever had with fountain pens was the Pilot Metropolitan M. Right out of the box, it worked. Every other fountain pen was a "forcing myself to love this pen because of general consensus high opinions of the pen". I feel like a big part of it is marketing and sunk cost fallacy.

I should just knock my head on the wall and induce a revelation... there is a reason why fountain pens are no longer popular in the general population and most people use computers and ballpoints now. No, fountain pens will not make you connect with God, no, it will not connect you with "history" or some other bullshit reason that makes fountain pens superior.

What my FP journey has done however, was it allowed me to try all different types of paper. And yes the paper is important. And I have found a paper that makes ballpoint pens just as good a writing experience as fountain pens. My handwriting looks more legible, there is zero frustration, zero distraction, pure writing my thoughts down unlike that I have with fountain pens.

Whenever I write with fountain pens, I always get distracted by the small imperfections like pooling of ink, feathering, the smoothness not to my tastes because of my peculiarity of writing; do I really like this writing experience? Is it me or is it the pen?. None of these distractions ever occur when I write with a ballpoint - it is simply click write click write - no bullshit.

So yes... I cannot believe it, and while I have enjoyed parts of my FP journey, it has led me back right back to where I started - using ballpoints. [Cheap ballpoints 0.7mm from Muji, if you really want to know.] But now I use found a good paper for them, so at least something good came out of using FPs.

[The usual YMMV/this is only my current opinion disclaimer]

I know EXACTLY how you feel.
I'm midway through this journey and only ~$500 in the hole so far. But I've gotten to the point of just wanting to box up everything and mail it off to someone and going back to ballpoints.
I've come to the point of accepting the fact that there are many variables to this fountain pen journey. Even the weather now affects how well my Fountain pen writes. And paper...lol...paper.
I think that the only resolution that I've found in avoiding many of the pitfalls of fountain pen life....for me...is setting up my pen nib and feed as dry as I can possibly take it.
I have my 355 nib set as dry as possible and the ebonite feed set with only one breather channel open.
That way I get all the shading and line variation when I flex, without ink dumping onto the page. If I need more ink for something like large flexy cursive, I can pump the shutoff valve down to flood the feed for a few words...then it goes back to normal.

I think that fountain pens stand out from the rest of society, and that is part of what makes you feel good when using one. It is easier to write with, much more elegant, and it's....different.
A lot more in-depth than a ballpoint, but consequently, it requires more attention and maintenance.
I am not a rich guy so I had to go the hard way and learn how to do much of that stated "maintenance" myself.
I've punched things, broken pens, broken me, cried, raged, been depressed, complained here on fpgeeks and giggled like a schoolgirl when things worked out well...throughout this experience...I'm still on the fountain-pen train for the time being.
I can't quit now because I'm at the point of exploring gold flex nibs and comparing the experience to steel flex nibs.
Maybe once that is finished...I'll be able to settle down.
Maybe...
It would be nice to just have one pen...to do everything.
Yeah...sure would be nice...
EDIT: But I won't find out if I bail out early...

[TSherbs]

^^^Sounds like a summary of the trajectory of marriage lol.

[Pterodactylus]

I think true collectors are born that way. One of my sons is one. He has a wall full of signed baseballs, a pile of hockey sticks, a cabinet full of Beatles stuff, etc. etc. He just enjoys having them, and there are worse hobbies. I mentioned in a prior post that I have over 30 airbrushes. But, there is a reason. I have a website that reviews them and most were donated for that purpose. I only keep them all because sometimes I hear from people with a question about one, and it's nice to have a sample. I only use two of them and the rest are in a box for my heirs to worry about.

The reason I have a dozen fountain pens is that I wanted to find what I like, and there is much to choose from. And, it has been educational. Three or four feel really good to me. and the rest will sit unused. I'm sure there are more expensive pens that write better than mine, but luckily I'm easily pleased and nothing I put on paper is really worth the extra cost.

Thanks for your thoughtful response. 👍

And itˋs not about how expensive a pen is, the price also does not have a direct relation on how good a pen writes.

I also do not own really expensive pens (but what expensive is, is also depending on the personal perception and situation).
I donˋt think that really expensive pens write better than others.

For me a pen is not a status object, itˋs a tool.
I enjoy really good tools (and materials) but e.g. I would never buy a MB writers edition or similar or a fancy Urushi Asian pen.

Back in the days when I bought a lot of pens I seldom bought a pen for more than 250€.
And I learned fast that I enjoyed vintage nibs much more than modern ones.
I think the average pen was more about 150€.

Such really expensive devices have imho per se nothing to do with „great“ writing devices.
They are status symbols, you pay for a fancy chassis, extraordinary materials but not for writing superiority.
Most of them for sure will write good (also with exceptions), but for sure not better than much cheaper ones.
The nib is the soul of the pen and all of them for sure have not superior nibs compared to others.

Imho many vintage nibs outperform any modern available nib no matter how expensive their chassis is.

And the price is for sure no measurement how much enjoyment and satisfaction you get out of your pen.

Look at the Serwex MB I used above, a pen with a really crappy building quality, not even a piston filler, everything on this pen is cheap and in bad quality.
Despite that facts it is the only pen I continuously have inked up since years (mostly without any maintenance or cleaning)
Ok I modified it to make it a much better writing pen than it was originally, but still it is a crappy built pen, but I love writing with it.
Itˋs my bread and butter pen, it always is on my desk, it is always inked up with an IG ink and I enjoy it.

To spend a decent amount of money helps to get good tools but itˋs not the key to everything.

Leonardo Pereznieto a really good artist I admire wrote in one of his books:
“Lack of expensive tools is no excuse for a poor work at art”

(Btw. he has also an awesome art YouTube channel)

And this statement is imho also true for pens.

Good tools definitely help (and can be enjoyed) but at the end it’s not the tool that counts, itˋs how good we master the tools.

[Ole Juul]

To my way of thinking, spending a lot of money to find a pen that writes well doesn't make any sense. Most pens write just fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them. To me it sounds like some kind of neurosis.

That said, I absolutely don't think there is anything wrong with spending money on fountain pens. I just don't think one is going to find one that is a perfect fit for an imagined goal.

[Jon Szanto]

As an aside: for the quadrillionth time, can we all stop to realize that one doesn't have to be either a collector or a user? That those are two points on a continuum, and one can easily find a sweet spot in the countless combinations between those two endeavors?

The concept of pen ownership is not a dichotomy.

[Parsimonious]

To my way of thinking, spending a lot of money to find a pen that writes well doesn't make any sense. Most pens write just fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them. To me it sounds like some kind of neurosis. .

I don't know about spending a lot of money, but even in my small batch of pens there are some real differences. They all work after some tweaking, but some better than others. And there are ergonomic factors. My JinHao X450 feels too fat. My Baoer 801, too skinny. My Baoer 388, just about right for me. The grips feel different. Some I like better than others. Wetness and smoothness can be adjusted somewhat, but the shape and weight of the pen is what it is. I have a Moonman C1 that writes really nice, but I don't like the sharp edge next to the grip.

[Jon Szanto]

I don't know about spending a lot of money, but even in my small batch of pens there are some real differences. They all work after some tweaking, but some better than others. And there are ergonomic factors. My JinHao X450 feels too fat. My Baoer 801, too skinny. My Baoer 388, just about right for me. The grips feel different. Some I like better than others. Wetness and smoothness can be adjusted somewhat, but the shape and weight of the pen is what it is. I have a Moonman C1 that writes really nice, but I don't like the sharp edge next to the grip.

Would it be safe to say that the majority of your purchases were online? Because elements like weight, balance, girth, uncomfortable grip issues (too-smooth sections, sharp steps, etc) and similar features are all things that can be ruled out while you are holding the pen that you are trying out - as in a pen shop or at a pen show. Online shopping gives us access to an unlimited amount of stock and usually includes a cost savings, but if you do like a personal connection with a writing instrument and a real sense of physical comfort. nothing beats being able to try one out before purchase.

I'm sure that, after a while, you got to where you could rule out some by looking at them, but it sounds like a fair number of purchases only showed their negative points after you had them in hand. I realize not everyone has access to either shows or stores, which is a real shame, but there is no substitute.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I've never used fountain pens just to be different-y; I was a sketcher from way back, saw a picture of a Pelikan 120 in an art book, and thought, 'Oooo, this looks so much more portable than a crow quill and a bottle of India ink.'

Naturally, by that time, you couldn't get a 120. But I bought a no-name, leaky fountain pen, moved my way up to a Rötring ArtPen and Lamy Safari, and completely fell in love. Also with inks.

Years later, a pen pal sent me a Pel 120. It's probably my most treasured pen.

[ethernautrix]

Funny. I recently wondered if I might put away all of my fountain pens and just enjoy the fuss-less Pentel EnerGel (0.4 needle tip), Pilot G-2 (0.38), and Uni-ball Signo RT1 (0.28 and 0.38). I really enjoy the lines I get from those pens, and I love the clicky-click easy-to-use, no-fuss, inexpensive, refillable pens. There's certainly a place for those in my life.

But... the Pilot PO nib really is the best writing experience for me, especially when I can write on the flat side as what I call a "faux fude' nib.

And the EF nib on the Nakaya Piccolo that just arrived? Pure joy. Yeah, better than those fuss-less clicky-clicks that I still like very much.




I like pens.

[silverlifter]

The reason I went back to using fountain pens, after being taught to write with them, was that I was sick and tired of showing up to my high school exams with a handful of ballpoints that would stutter and splooge their way through the three hour exams, leaving my hand cramped and smeared with ink.

So, when I went to uinversity, and was able to choose whatever pen I wanted (fountain pens were banned at my boarding school), I bought a Targa 1003. I would then go to lectures and exams with one pen and a bottle of Quink. No performance issues, no skipping, smearing or cramping; just the putting of words on the page as they spilled out of my head. Writing--the pyhsical apsect of it--became, as it should be, invisible as a process.

I have more pens now, but they fulfill exactly the same function: they facilitate the most efficient transfer of ideas onto paper. I recently bought a Parker 45 Flighter rollerball (and matching pencil), and while it works exceptionaly well, it is not as seamless as a nib.

The fact that most of my pens have a story attached to them that goes back between fourty and eighty-odd years adds to the enjoyment of them as things, and gives me a sense of satisfaction that my daughter will continue to use them long after I am gone. But if they weren't the best tool for me to write with, I wouldn't ink them up.

[Brilliant Bill]

Okay, you have my permission. You may go.

[arrow]

I have to admit, I would spend money on a nice pen.

This is just the basic every body knows, but still:

There can be issues with all pens. A basic ballpoint can act up with a microscopic burr to the ball, it might come around with a bit of scribbling, but after the fact it might happen again. They have a thicker, stickier ink that doesn't spread as easily on all types of paper, skipping is a common issue. If it's cold, they might not write well until they reach resonable room temperature. I have had all of these issues many times over, some within the last year. Ballpoints are generally robust, can stand in a mug for years and still write when they are picked up again. The ink is waterproof and usually doesn't smuge much if at all.

The rollerball pens have a few advantages, usually cheap, throw away pens, but with good quality ink and cartridges. They are wetter, and behave well on all writing and priting paper, less likely to skip than basic rollerpoint. They need a bit more time to dry. I place the Gelrollers in this group too since they in all regards behave in much the same way.

There are disposable, felt tip, brush tip, broad, narrow, stub, round, capiliary ink cartridges,..., all features meant to meet any purpuse and need. They are however not one pen for all needs.

There's the radiograph pens like Koh I Noor and Rotring. Faber used to have them, probably most of the large pen makers had a version of them. These days cheap disposable versions are most common, but I think the refillables are still available and opens up for a much larger ink selection.

The basic fountain pen can of course have issues, the expensive ones seem to be affected by the same as less, but good brands will sort out the problem for the buyer and should in theory be subject to better quality testing. The basic Lamy Safari or Pelikan schoolpen is quite good; the cartridge replacements are neat and easy and they are very dependable straight out of the package. I would say they are not prone to any more hickups than other types of pens; they need a flush out now and then, but even with a bit of neglect they behave well. They should behave well for years before they need replacement, even if they are not made to last as long as a more expensive pen. It's surprising you have problems with nice pens.

It's when you get very particular with nibs, tips, ink capacity, airplane safety, etc. things get more complicated. Drawing, caligraphy, fancy writing often needs specific nibs, may be demaning on ink feed. It should be easy to meet the needs of basic writing.

[Parsimonious]

Would it be safe to say that the majority of your purchases were online? Because elements like weight, balance, girth, uncomfortable grip issues (too-smooth sections, sharp steps, etc) and similar features are all things that can be ruled out while you are holding the pen that you are trying out - as in a pen shop or at a pen show. Online shopping gives us access to an unlimited amount of stock and usually includes a cost savings, but if you do like a personal connection with a writing instrument and a real sense of physical comfort. nothing beats being able to try one out before purchase.

I'm sure that, after a while, you got to where you could rule out some by looking at them, but it sounds like a fair number of purchases only showed their negative points after you had them in hand. I realize not everyone has access to either shows or stores, which is a real shame, but there is no substitute.

You are absolutely correct. I really had no choice. There was a time when we had independent stationery stores that really sold stationery supplies. The ones that remain around here are a joke, more like gift shops with mugs and stuffed toys. There are Staples and Office Depots, but their selection is very limited. They're great if you want a digital camera or office chair, not so much for pens and inks. At least my pen education was cheap.

It's a tough time for independent stores of any type. Try finding a good hobby shop.

[Freddie]

Yes, it is true. I've finally given up on fountain pens. Maybe this is just a temporary break, maybe it is permanent...

I don't know why I thought I would love fountain pens. Maybe I thought it would be more comfortable to use and that longer term it is cheaper to use fountain pens because you can just refill the ink instead of buying a new ballpoint pen every time it's finished - yeah no, neither of these points turned out to be true.

After spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on fountain pens, occasionally going to nibmeisters to "fix" some unruly nibs, the frustration of trying to make fountain pens work for me has led me to a breaking point.

Honestly, the best writing experience I have ever had with fountain pens was the Pilot Metropolitan M. Right out of the box, it worked. Every other fountain pen was a "forcing myself to love this pen because of general consensus high opinions of the pen". I feel like a big part of it is marketing and sunk cost fallacy.

I should just knock my head on the wall and induce a revelation... there is a reason why fountain pens are no longer popular in the general population and most people use computers and ballpoints now. No, fountain pens will not make you connect with God, no, it will not connect you with "history" or some other bullshit reason that makes fountain pens superior.

What my FP journey has done however, was it allowed me to try all different types of paper. And yes the paper is important. And I have found a paper that makes ballpoint pens just as good a writing experience as fountain pens. My handwriting looks more legible, there is zero frustration, zero distraction, pure writing my thoughts down unlike that I have with fountain pens.

Whenever I write with fountain pens, I always get distracted by the small imperfections like pooling of ink, feathering, the smoothness not to my tastes because of my peculiarity of writing; do I really like this writing experience? Is it me or is it the pen?. None of these distractions ever occur when I write with a ballpoint - it is simply click write click write - no bullshit.

So yes... I cannot believe it, and while I have enjoyed parts of my FP journey, it has led me back right back to where I started - using ballpoints. [Cheap ballpoints 0.7mm from Muji, if you really want to know.] But now I use found a good paper for them, so at least something good came out of using FPs.

[The usual YMMV/this is only my current opinion disclaimer]

Interesting story. Good move. Take care.

Fred
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.
IIRC ... 'Twas Hubert H. H.

[amk]

I have a lot of fountain pens. Into the 100's.

Some are cheapies. Some are vintage lovelies but I got them cheap at sales and flea markets. Some I paid up for (my modern Pelikans, Paltinums and Edisons). Some are inexpensive Indian pens that give me a lot of joy.

And sometimes I think crikey, WHY do I need that many pens? I feel I've fallen into a money spending habit that isn't delivering. I think back to the days when I had a sturdy Waterman Laureat in blue marbled lacquer and it was all I needed.

There are ways to deal with that feeling.
- I realise that I've learned how to repair fountain pens. I have rescued vintage pens that had crunkled up nibs, hardened rubber sacs, wonky clips, little cracks. I have repaired a few modern pens too.
- I've learned how to tweak a nib to make it write a bit wetter, broader, give me a bit of line variation. I've learned how to swap nibs so my favourite pen gets my favourite nib, too :-)
- I've enjoyed the beautiful colours of inks I can get, swapped with a few friends, had fun at pen shows.
- I've put a few pens up for sale or to swap that just don't work for me (too heavy, don't balance right in my hands) or that I've repaired but would like to pass on now they're working.
- I've built nicer pen storage cases so I can see more of my pretties.

I think we all from time to time get that feeling of having wasted a lot of our time going down a rabbit hole. I know I do, not just with fountain pens.

But I don't think I'm ever going Back to Bic. :-)

[Chuck Naill]

I honestly hate ball point pens, the finer the better, but my handwriting it better and more ledgeable with gel roller ball especially Pilot Precise V5 or a FP. For that reason alone, I am staying with a hobby that is both fun/enjoyable and useful.

I've enjoyed using old dip pen nibs and using them to write family letters. Now that I am more settled from selling one house and moving to another, I hope to resume my letter writing.

Over the years I have noticed that if I am carrying a good pen rather than one my company give away ball points, I always have a pen ready when needed, since I tend to give the advertising pens away.

Like I've said before, I have no regrets. I have several tools that I do not use everyday, but it is good to have them when needed. I do not see having a well thought out pen collection any differently.

[TFarnon]

On this cold, gray Sunday morning, I'm thinking of ceasing to buy fountain pens. I have enough of them, I think. But that is today, that is this morning, and I know that by evening I will be happily viewing pen porn on the internet again. My best guess is that I'll slow down a bit, because I pretty much have every pen I would ever want. There are a couple of limited and special editions I might like to have, or at least see with purchasing in mind, but my wishlist is no longer "One of everything, please". The pleasures of writing aside, I like pretending I'm a dragon and surveying my hoard. All my pens are in zippered Girologio pen cases, 12 or 24 pens per case, all black velvet lined. I open up the cases and bask in the glow of my pens against the dark velvet. At least I don't sleep on my pens.