I just bought my grail pen... a beautiful big red Parker Senior Duofold.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

That seller has a well-known model of putting up items for sale at vastly inflated prices and then re-listing them as auctions with low starting prices. The ones in the images above are a current sale, not sold.

[proteus]

Empty_of_Clouds,

Many thanks for your comments.

I looked at his auction about 8 weeks ago, he had a bidder.
I thought it was sold.

Have seen Gold & Silver versions, never a red.

Would you agree this red set's value is about £500 ( if near mint )

[Jon Szanto]

That seller has a well-known model of putting up items for sale at vastly inflated prices and then re-listing them as auctions with low starting prices. The one's in the images above are a current sale, not sold.

Indeed. Pens that get relisted month after month at prices no sane person would pay. I'm grateful for that same, pinkish-striped background as I scroll right past them.

[Jon Szanto]

Would you agree this red set's value is about £500 ( if near mint )

I think that is still a bit high, though possible if mint. The main point, which I tried to underline, is that the seller you are using as an example is an outlier, and not representative of prices in general.

The whole point of pricing in a fluctuating market (as pens are likely to do) is that you need to get as large a sample set as possible and gauge the median that way. It becomes very difficult on rare items, and then you can't limit yourself to one place like eBay, but include auctions (as in private/public true auctions) and pen sales and shows. And you can only include prices of items that have been sold, definitely NOT going by asking prices.

[proteus]

Jon Szanto,

Many thanks for taking the time to add your observations and comments.

[Ron Z]

And you can only include prices of items that have been sold, definitely NOT going by asking prices.

i.e. fact VS fantasy.

[proteus]

On the topic of value and price asked, if I may please.

Saw this Pen, possibly the best looking P61 prototype that I have ever seen.



I wondered what is it really worth.

The price asked is £539.13

( DS recently sold a different and very boring one for £310 on UK ebay )

[Jon Szanto]

You do keep asking the same somewhat-unanswerable question: what is something worth? At the end of the day, any object is worth - for sale - what a person is willing to pay for it. If a pen is said to be worth $500 and it never sells, it that truly what it is worth? There are so many things that go into making such difficult demarcations.

It is at times like these that I dearly with Paul Erano's book, "Fountain Pens: Past and Present" was in print and widely available. There are so many similar basic topics of pens and pen collecting that he touches on, to the point but well-phrased (and, yes, I've bent his arm on numerous occasions about trying to get a 4th edition out the door, but no luck so far). Here is his opening paragraph on a two-page article about determining the value of a pen:

"It would be difficult to imagine how any one price quoted for a particular pen could accurately reflect its value under all circumstances. There are just too many variables that affect price. In truth, it is often one's ability to negotiate a mutually agreeable price that dictates a pen's worth in dollars as much as anything else. In the real world, such negotiations often occur with people from all walks of life - from friends and family who would like you to have a pen, free of charge, as a keepsake' to the antique dealer who values your business and wants to offer the pen at a fair price' to the pen dealer who guarantees his product and sells to a very select market."

To that statement now add the playing field of online auction and sales sites, where you find a mix of knowledgable pen people and complete morons, all selling pens at the price they have somehow determined it will go for. As Mr. Erano says, the variables are endless. It takes many years, maybe a lifetime, to gain a hold of the ever-shifting values that a particular object holds.

A final question: the pen you ask about is obviously a model of pen you have considered in the past. Given your understanding of the model and the condition this pen is in, what would you pay for the pen? If another, identical pen later sold for less, would you still feel comfortable with your purchase? If 3 pens like this sell for $100 and another then sells for $500, does that make all the pens worth that much, or did someone overpay? Or did they just really want it?

By asking and answering these type of questions, you will gain an understanding of what the pen is worth to you.






Then again, someone on the forum may actually know what these are going for.

[Farmboy]

That pen is not a prototype it is a production pen that was marketed and withdrawn and replaced with the Parker 71 as renamed the 61.

There was an article in Pen World a few years ago about these.

[proteus]

Jon Szanto,

Sir,

A great many thanks for your further comments.

They are greatly appreciated.


Here to learn from the very best.

Am in your debt