Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 112

Thread: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

  1. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    There are plenty of Republicans that are anti-Trump. Not all are as obvious as Romney is or McCain was. Raffensberger would have been all over an investigation if he were a ‘Trumpist’, or an opportunist like Lindsay Graham...
    This isn't a meaningful statement. Your reasoning posits only this: one is a "Trumpist" or one is "hostile."

    I asked you why you used the word "hostile." Like, if I object to my employer cutting my wages, and he calls my position "hostile." The term seems neither fair nor credible. dneal, you have your own forms of slander built into your language, your own forms of biased, limited reasoning that reveal themselves in these sentences. Here, you try to limit the possible motivations for Raffensberger's refusal to agree and/or consent to only two, but that is a fallacy of logic (false dilemma) used mainly to manipulate and obfuscate (to hide other possible motivations for non-compliance that do not serve your purpose).

    Again, it is not "hostile" to defend the accuracy and certitude and procedures of the Georgia vote, particularly in light of the extremely high likelihood of another Biden win if another recount were done (after three have already been completed). It's being professional and showing integrity. "Hostile" is a biased and demeaning word for this situation. It is not "hostile," even, to tell the POTUS to bugger-off from legal business that is not his to command, rule, influence, or otherwise leverage. Raffensberger's words are incredibly measured and non-hostile for the position that this POTUS snakoid was putting him in. He simply stood his ground. When a jackass bully is trying to lean on a target, it is not "hostile" to resist. It is brave and principled, especially when done in level-headed language.

    Despite your statements to the contrary, you seem a Trumper to me. I respect my family members and neighbors who voted for Trump. But this post-election wrangle is a morally craven grab for power and disrespect of the will of a clear majority. Trump has lost two national popular votes in a row; the only difference is that this time around it was by a wider margin. He needs to pack his bags and get the hell out of the WH. And desist from this cynical, craven attack on certain states and the votes of their citizens.
    Last edited by TSherbs; January 4th, 2021 at 02:53 PM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    cj2020 (January 7th, 2021)

  3. #22
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    503
    Thanks
    782
    Thanked 269 Times in 176 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Trump to Raffensberger:

    “That’s a criminal offense,” he said. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.”
    That is a threat. Unless Raffensberger "finds" 12,000 votes, says Trump, bad things will happen to him and to the legal council for the Georgia Secretary of State. Who has an honest defense of Trump?

    Raffensberger answered every one of Trump's increasingly hysterical -- nearly psychotic -- complaints. Trump's deranged threats fit with the attacks on a democratic system by Putin or Hitler, but look nothing like an American President. He belongs in a mental hospital. Or jail.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to welch For This Useful Post:

    cj2020 (January 7th, 2021)

  5. #23
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Trump to Raffensberger:

    “That’s a criminal offense,” he said. “And you can’t let that happen. That’s a big risk to you and to Ryan, your lawyer.”
    That is a threat. Unless Raffensberger "finds" 12,000 votes, says Trump, bad things will happen to him and to the legal council for the Georgia Secretary of State. Who has an honest defense of Trump?

    Raffensberger answered every one of Trump's increasingly hysterical -- nearly psychotic -- complaints. Trump's deranged threats fit with the attacks on a democratic system by Putin or Hitler, but look nothing like an American President. He belongs in a mental hospital. Or jail.
    That's a threat? How exactly is a President with less than two weeks in office is going to carry out this "threat"?

    And you think the Trumpists are "delusional"...

    Keep grasping.

  6. #24
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    There are plenty of Republicans that are anti-Trump. Not all are as obvious as Romney is or McCain was. Raffensberger would have been all over an investigation if he were a ‘Trumpist’, or an opportunist like Lindsay Graham...
    This isn't a meaningful statement. Your reasoning posits only this: one is a "Trumpist" or one is "hostile."

    I asked you why you used the word "hostile." Like, if I object to my employer cutting my wages, and he calls my position "hostile." The term seems neither fair nor credible. dneal, you have your own forms of slander built into your language, your own forms of biased, limited reasoning that reveal themselves in these sentences. Here, you try to limit the possible motivations for Raffensberger's refusal to agree and/or consent to only two, but that is a fallacy of logic (false dilemma) used mainly to manipulate and obfuscate (to hide other possible motivations for non-compliance that do not serve your purpose).

    Again, it is not "hostile" to defend the accuracy and certitude and procedures of the Georgia vote, particularly in light of the extremely high likelihood of another Biden win if another recount were done (after three have already been completed). It's being professional and showing integrity. "Hostile" is a biased and demeaning word for this situation. It is not "hostile," even, to tell the POTUS to bugger-off from legal business that is not his to command, rule, influence, or otherwise leverage. Raffensberger's words are incredibly measured and non-hostile for the position that this POTUS snakoid was putting him in. He simply stood his ground. When a jackass bully is trying to lean on a target, it is not "hostile" to resist. It is brave and principled, especially when done in level-headed language.

    Despite your statements to the contrary, you seem a Trumper to me. I respect my family members and neighbors who voted for Trump. But this post-election wrangle is a morally craven grab for power and disrespect of the will of a clear majority. Trump has lost two national popular votes in a row; the only difference is that this time around it was by a wider margin. He needs to pack his bags and get the hell out of the WH. And desist from this cynical, craven attack on certain states and the votes of their citizens.
    How persuasive do you think I would be if I just quoted selections of your posts and said "This isn't a meaningful statement"?

    Anyway..

    Definition of hostile
    1a: of or relating to an enemy
    hostile fire
    b: marked by malevolence : having or showing unfriendly feelings
    a hostile act
    c: openly opposed or resisting
    a hostile critic
    hostile to new ideas
    d(1): not hospitable
    plants growing in a hostile environment
    (2): having an intimidating, antagonistic, or offensive nature
    a hostile workplace
    2a: of or relating to the opposing party in a legal controversy
    a hostile witness
    b: adverse to the interests of a property owner or corporation management
    a hostile takeover

    The dude taped the conversation and released it to the media. That's not a friendly party. It's a hostile one.

    p.s.: The list of things you are ignoring is steadily growing. You're certainly not obliged to address them, but the fact that you don't is telling.

    - I'll be happy to criticize the conservative side if you like. Where would you like me to start?
    - I am curious if you think there is anything about the election that could give an objective observer a modicum of a reason for suspicion?
    - Name one Trump policy you agree with, and I’ll name one (or several if you like) that I don’t.

  7. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    If you're done talking about this election, then I can stop reading your posts. I am not interested in otherwise discussing politics and policies on this thread, nor am I interested in what you think about other policies.

    I wonder if you thought that Raffensberger's fact board was a "hostile" act? It clearly refuted several claims being made about the Georgia count. I call it principled and true.

    Again, to stand up to lies about your state's election process is not a "hostile" act in any objective sense. Of course, to a narcissistic egomaniac (and his followers) it *might* seem that way.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    cj2020 (January 7th, 2021)

  9. #26
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Buddy, you’re the one that’s questioning my integrity or motive. If you want to throw that out there, let’s go there. I’m not going to give you a free pass.

    I’m just as honest about it as you are when you admit your bias (although I think you underestimate it).

  10. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    The fact board?

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    welch (January 4th, 2021)

  12. #28
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    If this were global warming data, based on models, liberals would be nodding sagely. When it’s election data taken directly from a State’s data feed, it’s a bunch of delusional conspiracy theorists. I don’t know if it’s true. It seems plausible. It deserves investigation.

    Feel free to post the court record where the judge considered this (that was just posted 3 hours ago). It takes time to do analysis. It took Mueller 3 years. But Dems say “nothing to see here”...



  13. #29
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    503
    Thanks
    782
    Thanked 269 Times in 176 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    WATCH: Georgia election officials reject Trump call to ‘find’ more votes

    Politics Updated on Jan 4, 2021 3:46 PM EST — Published on Jan 4, 2021 2:41 PM EST
    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump pressured Georgia’s Republican secretary of state to “find” enough votes to overturn Joe Biden’s win in the state’s presidential election, repeatedly citing disproven claims of fraud and raising the prospect of a “criminal offense” if officials did not change the vote count, according to a recording of the conversation.

    Watch the press conference in the player above.

    The phone call with Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger on Saturday was the latest step in an unprecedented effort by a sitting president to press a state official to reverse the outcome of a free and fair election that he lost. The Republican president, who has refused to accept his loss to Democratic President-elect Biden, repeatedly argued that Raffensperger could change the certified results.

    “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have,” Trump said. “Because we won the state.”

    Georgia counted its votes three times before certifying Biden’s win by a 11,779-vote margin, Raffensperger noted.

    “President Trump, we’ve had several lawsuits, and we’ve had to respond in court to the lawsuits and the contentions,” he said on the call. “We don’t agree that you have won.”

    Audio snippets of the conversation were first posted online by The Washington Post. The Associated Press obtained the full audio of Trump’s conversation with Georgia officials from a person on the call. The AP has a policy of not amplifying disinformation and unproven allegations. The AP plans to post the full audio as it annotates a transcript with fact check material.

    Trump’s renewed intervention and the persistent and unfounded claims of fraud came nearly two weeks before he leaves office and two days before twin runoff elections in Georgia that will determine political control of the U.S. Senate.

    It also added a level of further intrigue to Trump’s rally in Georgia on Monday night — likely the last of his term — in which he is supposed to boost the two Republican candidates. In a rage after the Raffensperger call, Trump floated the idea of pulling out of the rally, which would have potentially devastated the GOP chances in what is expected to be a pair of razor-thin races.

    But Trump was persuaded to go ahead with the rally as a stage from which to reiterate his claims of election fraud and to present, as he tweeted Monday, the “real numbers” from the race. Republicans, though, were wary as to whether Trump would focus only on himself and potentially depress turnout by undermining faith in the runoff elections and not promoting the two GOP candidates.

    The president used Saturday’s hourlong phone conversation to tick through a list of claims about the election in Georgia, including that hundreds of thousands of ballots mysteriously appeared in Fulton County, which includes Atlanta. Officials have said there is no evidence of that happening.

    The Georgia officials on the call are heard repeatedly pushing back against the president’s assertions, telling him that he’s relying on debunked theories and, in one case, selectively edited video.

    “It was pretty obvious pretty early on that we’d debunked every one of those theories early on,” Raffensperger told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Monday, “but President Trump continues to believe them.”

    Also during the conversation, Trump appeared to threaten Raffensperger and Ryan Germany, the secretary of state’s legal counsel, by suggesting both could be criminally liable if they failed to find that thousands of ballots in Fulton County had been illegally destroyed. There is no evidence to support Trump’s claim.

    “That’s a criminal offense,” Trump says. “And you can’t let that happen.”

    Others on the call included Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff, and attorneys assisting Trump, including Washington lawyer Cleta Mitchell. Trump lost the Electoral College to Biden by 74 votes, and even if Georgia, with its 16 votes, were to end up in his column, it would have no impact on the result of the election.

    The call was the first time Raffensperger and Trump spoke, though the White House had tried 18 previous times to set up a conversation, according to officials.

    Democrats and a few Republicans condemned Trump’s actions, including Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, a member of the GOP House leadership team who deemed the call “deeply troubling.” And Democratic Reps. Ted Lieu of California and Kathleen Rice of New York made a criminal referral to FBI Director Christopher Wray and called for an investigation into the president.

    Legal experts said Trump’s behavior raised questions about possible election law violations.

    Biden senior adviser Bob Bauer called the recording “irrefutable proof” of Trump threatening an official in his own party to “rescind a state’s lawful, certified vote count and fabricate another in its place.”

    “It captures the whole, disgraceful story about Donald Trump’s assault on American democracy,” Bauer said.

    Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Democrat in that chamber, said Trump’s conduct “merits nothing less than a criminal investigation.”

    Trump said in a tweet earlier Sunday that he had spoken with Raffensperger. He attacked how Raffensperger conducted Georgia’s elections, tweeting, “He has no clue!” and he said the state official “was unwilling, or unable” to answer questions.

    Raffensperger’s Twitter response: “Respectfully, President Trump: What you’re saying is not true. The truth will come out.”

    Various election officials across the country and Trump’s former attorney general, William Barr, have said there was no widespread fraud in the election. Republican governors in Arizona and Georgia, key battleground states crucial to Biden’s victory, have also vouched for the integrity of their state elections. Nearly all the legal challenges from Trump and his allies have been dismissed by judges, including two tossed by the Supreme Court, which has three Trump-nominated justices.

    Still, Trump has publicly disparaged the election, raising concerns among Republicans that GOP voters may be discouraged from participating in Tuesday’s runoffs pitting Republican Sen. Kelly Loeffler against Democrat Raphael Warnock and Republican David Perdue against Democrat Jon Ossoff.

    Rebecca Green, who helps direct the election law program at William and Mary Law School, said that while it is appropriate for a candidate to question the outcome of an election, the processes for doing so for the presidential election have run their course. States have certified their votes.

    Green said Trump had raised “lots of questions” about whether he violated any election laws.

    Carl Tobias, a law professor at the University of Richmond, said Trump has shown “reprehensible and, possibly illegal, conduct.”

    Trump noted on the call that he intended to repeat his claims about fraud at Monday night’s rally in Dalton, a heavily Republican area in north Georgia.

    “The people of Georgia are angry. The people of the country are angry,” he says on the recording.

    Biden is also due to campaign in Georgia on Monday. Vice President-elect Kamala Harris stumped in Garden City, Georgia, on Sunday, slamming Trump for the call.

    “It was a bald, bald-faced, bold abuse of power by the president of the United States,” she said.

    Loeffler and Perdue have largely backed Trump in his attempts to overturn election results. But on Sunday, Loeffler said she hadn’t decided whether to join her Republican colleagues in challenging the legitimacy of Biden’s victory over Trump when Congress meets Wednesday to affirm Biden’s 306-232 win in the Electoral College.

    Perdue, who was quarantining after being exposed to the coronavirus, said he supports the challenge, though he will not be a sitting senator when the vote happens because his term has expired. Still, he told Fox News Channel he was encouraging his colleagues to object, saying it’s “something that the American people demand right now.”

    Amy reported from Atlanta. Lemire reported from New York. Additional reporting contributed by Associated Press writers Kate Brumback in Atlanta, Russ Bynum in Garden City, Ga., and Zeke Miller in Washington.
    Notice that Lynn Cheney called Trump's demands "deeply troubling". Seems to have borrowed that phrase from Susan Collins.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...vTNuom1Qe9LVUo

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to welch For This Useful Post:

    cj2020 (January 7th, 2021)

  15. #30
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    I’m missing why Lynn Cheney’s opinion is relevant, let alone authoritative...

    -edit-

    p.s.: Trump’s strategy is to convince legislatures, not election officials. If he does that (and I don’t think he will with 2 days left) he could still win.

    I think a rally in DC on the 6th is pointless. At best it’s an attempt to put political pressure on vulnerable Dems if there are electoral challenges (which I also think is stupid).

    From a historical and constitutional perspective, what would be really interesting is if fraud is proven after the inauguration. There’s no clear process to deal with that. You should go back and look at the shenanigans that have gone on in previous elections. 1876, for example. I think this is where Ted Cruz’s “appoint a commission to investigate” comes from. I don’t see that being successful either, but maybe that’s the reason for the rally...
    Last edited by dneal; January 4th, 2021 at 07:24 PM.

  16. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Here are the "reasons" for all of this election wrangling:

    1) Trump's ego and inability to accept this loss, and his predilection for litigation.

    2) a deep populist narrative of victim-hood in Trump world as the culture and the economy and demographics make large shifts over these last 10-20 years. This victim-hood fuels the energy of acceptance of conspiracy theories ("the greater culture is out to get us").

    3) GOP fear of Trump's populist base, and their willingness to use that energy in the base to get out the vote.

    4) a general erosion of faith in the center-right and center-left news sources as they all drift more into entertainment/media channels with target audiences.

    5) the rise of alt-right outlets and forums where the disaffected and anonymous can vent their frustrations and circulate content posing as "research" and "data" and receive its own amplification, most recently also through the president's twitter account and public remarks. Here the disempowered can feel the reward of seeing "patterns" and "knowing what is really going on."

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    cj2020 (January 7th, 2021)

  18. #32
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Yeah, it couldn’t possibly be that reasonable people have reasonable suspicions. It couldn’t possibly be that 74 million voters support him. It’s curious how you can be so cocksure what Trump supporters think, when you’re not one and ignore everything they actually say. I’ve been paying attention. I suspect you didn’t have the massive Trump rallies and parades (prior to the election) up there in New England. Here in the Midwest, I saw them frequently. There is a lot of passionate support for him, uncouth behavior and all. That’s probably why you think these delusional conspiracy theorists should be ignored. You haven’t seen the crowds in person. They need to be persuaded the election was legitimate. Again, ignore them at your peril. The people Hillary thinks are a “basket of deplorables”, and (like you) treats with disdain; are generally hardworking, decent people. I trust in their decency. I fear what happens when they decide they’ve been pushed too far. We’ve had a year of COVID and lockdowns, partisan hyperbole spewed daily, and their faith in institutions damaged. Tensions are high.

    In other news, Congress Approves Rules Regulating Jan. 6 Electoral Vote Count. What’s strange (aside from the fact that they don’t get to make rules on this - the Vice President presides - is that their vote wasn’t recorded. That’s the morally craven behavior I expect from politicians.
    Last edited by dneal; January 4th, 2021 at 08:47 PM.

  19. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    I wasn't explaining why people vote for him. I was explaining why a smaller group is pushing to rescind the EC affirmed results. For example, if Trump said "I accept these results," this whole thing would end.

    Stop picking fights so often, dneal. You chirp and chirp at me and decry the superiority of others in the most superior of tones yourself. You're making my point about a sense of victim-hood. That post wasn't about you.

    If it is any interest, I know why people vote for the GOP and for Trump. That is a whole different conversation, and not what these lawsuits are about.

  20. #34
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Let me simplify.

    Here are the "reasons" for all of this election wrangling
    Yeah, it couldn’t possibly be that reasonable people have reasonable suspicions. It couldn’t possibly be that 74 million voters support him.
    Trump believes he won (right or wrong). I agree he has a thin skin.
    You talk of people believing conspiracy theories, I think they have reasonable grounds to believe (at this time).
    Trump’s base. We’re in agreement, 74 million supporters.
    Erosion in faith of center right/left media. I don’t disagree, but that’s not why there’s “election wrangling”
    Rise of alt-right outlets. I’ve said this many times. There are alt-left outlets too (although “alt” terminology is stupid).

  21. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Trumpers are not "being pushed too far." They lost an election. That is all. We've all been through this. The game is over. It was not rigged. It's time to leave the field. Yes, there will be more games, but this one is over. Accepting the loss is not "being pushed too far." All those who lose should take the loss, reflect, learn, adjust, and try to win again in the next game. Losing in the contest is not "being pushed too far" unless the players have a distorted set of expectations about how tough it is to win.

  22. #36
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    You keep asserting that. Fine. That's one point of view and there are others that believe theirs is equally compelling. That's what I've been trying to get you to understand all along. You have consistently dismissed them with derogatory, insulting language.

    I truly believe you do not understand middle America. "Trump country", as it were. I listen to them every day on local talk radio (with a Libertarian host). I hear their conversations at the grocery store and the barber shop. They've watched GOP politicians cower for decades. Think of Bob Dole - a perfect example if a milquetoast Republican. They've felt betrayed by "RINO's" like McCain and Romney (there are others). Trump comes along and he isn't afraid to scrap - and he's going to do it to their benefit. He's not an unknown. They've all watched him for decades. Affairs, bankruptcies, "you're fired" reality TV... all of it. They don't care about that.
    They're willing to overlook it (they're that desperate). They like what he says, and are more passionate in support of him than any candidate I've ever seen. Including Reagan.

    Go back and look at Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame) when he predicts Trump will win in 2016, and why. Trump was a bull in a china shop, and "Trump country" delighted in his smashing of all the things they hated. Trump wasn't just a blowhard either. He cut their taxes and increased their wages. He would have gotten them out of Obamacare, which they realized was a financial disaster, if it weren't for McCain's pettiness. They love Trump demolishing the media (and he's done that, journalist's opinions of themselves be damned).

    I fully expect that Biden will be inaugurated. You can not imagine the amount of people who still fervently believe Trump will be successful, two days before the electoral count when he essentially has no chance other than some bizarre "hail mary" event.

    Go and watch some of Doug TenNaple's videos on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/c/DougTennapel/videos The guy gets more than 500k views in 8 hours. I think he's wrong, but he's representative of what tens of millions of people still believe.

    I hope to god they go home on Jan 6th (or the 20th), with the normal dejection and bitter feelings that are associated with say, their football team losing the Superbowl. I believe they will, but I'm not 100% confident in that (and I can't believe I'm saying that).

    I've been posting their point of view not because I believe the same, but because it's important to know what they're thinking (and what they're being told). It's the same reason I check out Rachel Maddow, Keith Olberman, and other morons on the left. I want to know what the radicals are thinking, and what they're telling people. You should stop reading the Washington Post, and start listening to what Steve Bannon or Newsmax is saying, for example. The first just confirms your worldview, and is therefore unnecessary. The other tells you what the other side believes.
    Last edited by dneal; January 4th, 2021 at 10:00 PM.

  23. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    I do understand the Trump anger and discontent. I have said so repeatedly. And I live in a poor, less populous state (Maine). In my state, I am on the losing side of elections and referendums about 50% of the time. Which means that those who disagree with me are on the losing side about half the time. In this state, we all get over it and move on. We DO understand each other. And, thank God, there is very little of this conspiracy hysteria here. Yes, we have had Trump rallies here and Trump truck parades. So what? No one bothered them and I certainly didn't begrudge their interest in demonstrating their political enthusiasm for a candidate. We all should! But this election challenging in 60+ cases, these conspiracy theories, and this recent phone call is just madness, delusion, cynical cravenness. It is misguided and injurious to democracy. It's a group of discontents, led by an egomaniac, sore over losing, and desperate to hold onto power and some psychological sense of legitimacy. Our country AlWAYS swings back and forth between the rule of these two parties. In this case, with Covid and social unrest and Trump's own poor leadership style, the swing back to Dems came after one term instead of two. Big deal! It's no surprise! Trump hasn't won the popular vote either time! He was lucky that he won the EC the first time.

    There is no steal in the vote counting! Get over it, Trumpers. It's for your own good, your party's own good, and democracy's own good.

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TSherbs For This Useful Post:

    cj2020 (January 7th, 2021), welch (January 5th, 2021)

  25. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Tennessee USA
    Posts
    725
    Thanks
    253
    Thanked 428 Times in 272 Posts
    Rep Power
    2

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    While I realize the stakes are much different, imagine a baseball hitter arguing two months out that had he not been called out on strike three, he would have hit a home run, that the umpire was fraudulent and out to take away his HR or better, that he actually did hit a home run, that the fans are upset, and for the baseball commissioner to find a way to show he hit a home run.

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Chuck Naill For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (January 5th, 2021), welch (January 5th, 2021)

  27. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    1,348
    Thanks
    781
    Thanked 977 Times in 544 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    While I realize the stakes are much different, imagine a baseball hitter arguing two months out that had he not been called out on strike three, he would have hit a home run, that the umpire was fraudulent and out to take away his HR or better, that he actually did hit a home run, that the fans are upset, and for the baseball commissioner to find a way to show he hit a home run.
    word

  28. #40
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    990
    Thanks
    468
    Thanked 715 Times in 352 Posts
    Rep Power
    7

    Default Re: Trump demands that Georgia Secretary of State change votes so he wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    While I realize the stakes are much different, imagine a baseball hitter arguing two months out that had he not been called out on strike three, he would have hit a home run, that the umpire was fraudulent and out to take away his HR or better, that he actually did hit a home run, that the fans are upset, and for the baseball commissioner to find a way to show he hit a home run.
    Not a bad analogy, but it could be argued that we’re still in extra innings.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •