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Thread: Countdown until the maniac is gone

  1. #1
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    surprise, he's not going to the inauguration

    has GWB indicated whether he and Laura will go?

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    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    "Hello, world";

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-po...5th-amendment/

    Treasury Secretary Mnuchin involved in discussions about the 25th Amendment, but is unlikely to pursue Trump’s removal
    Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin testifies before a Congressional Oversight Commission hearing on Capitol Hill in Washington. (Sarah Silbiger/The Washington Post via AP)
    Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin testifies before a Congressional Oversight Commission hearing on Capitol Hill in Washington. (Sarah Silbiger/The Washington Post via AP)
    By
    Jeff Stein
    Jan. 8, 2021 at 6:18 p.m. EST
    Add to list

    Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has been personally involved in discussions about invoking the 25th Amendment to remove the president from office, but is highly unlikely to pursue that extraordinary course of action, according to three people aware of the secretary’s remarks.

    Mnuchin, who has long been one of President Trump’s most loyal Cabinet secretaries, publicly condemned the rioters for their siege of the U.S. Capitol building but refrained from openly criticizing the president. In private, however, he has fumed over Trump’s handling of the incident and has been directly critical of him, according to the people who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk freely about the private conversations.

    While Mnuchin is unlikely to pursue the option, the fact that the discussions of the 25th Amendment have reached senior Cabinet officials highlights the extraordinary fallout from the siege of the U.S. Capitol building. Mnuchin’s conversations about the subject went beyond just being asked about it by other people, one of the people said.

    A Treasury Department spokeswoman declined to comment on the matter.

    Mnuchin’s loyalty to Trump could end with painful setback as president shreds stimulus deal

    The 25th Amendment gives the vice president, plus a majority of the Cabinet, the ability to remove the president from office if they determine he “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.” Many people at the White House do not expect the effort to move forward, and Mnuchin is also not seen as likely to ultimately support such an effort.

    How the 25th Amendment works

    The 25th Amendment details the steps to fill the presidency in the event that they are "unable to discharge the powers and duties" of the office. (The Washington Post)
    The president’s encouragement of the mob that stormed the Capitol has led to several high-profile resignations, including those of Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao; Education Secretary Betsy DeVos; Mick Mulvaney, the U.S. special envoy to Northern Ireland; and Tyler Goodspeed, who was the sole member remaining of the White House Council of Economic Advisers. Other senior White House officials have also quit in recent days.

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    The 25th is not happening.

    Maybe just a House initiation of impeachment. But that is it.

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    surprise, he's not going to the inauguration

    has GWB indicated whether he and Laura will go?
    I would think this was welcomed news.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Alan Dershowitz, cancelled by the progressives for not participating in the groupthink, speaks some sense.


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    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Raging and whimpering.

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Raging and whimpering.
    A Dem specialty over the past 4 years

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Here's a peak into the insanity as it continues:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...456490?cid=apn

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    and for a comedic and entertaining twist:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT5kafhG3Qw

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Raging and whimpering.
    Dershowitz?

    He's a benchmark for true liberalism. I disagree with him as often as I agree, but I never question his motive or integrity.

    The fact that you characterize his comments as "raging and whimpering" is telling...

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    and for a comedic and entertaining twist:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT5kafhG3Qw
    Thus confirming the left can't meme.

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Raging and whimpering.
    Dershowitz?

    He's a benchmark for true liberalism. I disagree with him as often as I agree, but I never question his motive or integrity.

    The fact that you characterize his comments as "raging and whimpering" is telling...
    I don't question Dershowitz's motives, either (other than to make money). He believes what he is saying. But he is not persuasive at times. His banter here is no more persuasive than my neighbor's.

    I agree that this is not a case for the 25th.

    I disagree that this is not impeachable (inciting a violent riot on the Capitol is, I suppose, a felony).

    I agree that some Democrats have been engaging in hyperbole (welcome to Washington).

    I disagree that Pelosi and Schumer pose a threat to the Constitution (that is hyperbole, also).

    I disagree that "nobody knew" that this riot would occur. That's laughably wrong, including simply the fact that people were requesting additional security support from the DOD (or whomever it was) days and hours ahead of the "march." And on social media, monitored by many security agencies, trying to take over the Capital proceedings was being openly stated as a purpose. Persons said that they would bring guns and bombs. Which they did.

    It has now been reported from more than one source that at least a few persons stated that they were there to kidnap Mike Pence and execute them (they apparently had zip ties on them). Dershowitz wrongly suggests that none of this was planned or was foreseen, in an effort to downplay its seriousness relative to other disruptive events. One woman on camera said that she was maced in the face as she joined the crowd entering the building, trying to attempt "the revolution." Now to me, she was stupid and delusional (that has repeatedly been my point), but she seemed very sincere that that was what she thought was happening, and her delusion--and that of thousands of others--does not excuse her culpability in the act and does not mitigate the seriousness of the crime, and it certainly does not mean that "nobody saw this coming." That is either just lazy stupidness on Dershowitz's part, or a bold lie.

    Dershowitz usually likes to defend the Constitution and read it narrowly. Fine. I sometimes do, too. But let's also remember that Clinton was impeached because he committed perjury about an affair. What's more of a "threat to the Constitution"? Really neither, right? I don't think that it is too political of me to say that I find inciting protesters who are carrying guns, bombs, and other weapons, and--at least in part--a plan to disrupt the counting of the EC votes, to kidnap the Vice President, to march on the Capital and "show strength" and "take back our country" is a graver threat to the country than lying about an affair.

    So, Dershowitz is only partly right. He gets the big picture wrong because he is not informed enough about what actually happened, what was actually planned by some of the people, and what other people were clearly anticipating and worried about before it happened.

    Is it worth impeaching at this late date? Probably not. But is the idea of impeachment for this valid? Yes. Is it a "threat to the Constitution" like Dershowitz says? Godsakes no. That's just dramatic bombast for viewer ratings.

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    I know I give you a hard time, but I appreciate that post even if I don't agree with every point.

    The main point I agree with is the danger of "weaponizing" the Constitution. Every time someone sets a new precedent it blows up in everybody's face. It's a partisan example, but the "nuclear option" is a good example. Harry Reid started it, and it was used against Democrats with the appointment of 3 SC justices. Impeaching Clinton is a decent example of Republicans setting a bad precedent.

    I wholeheartedly agree that it's no surprise the protest on the 6th turned into what it did, and I've said more than a few times that Trump bears blame. I don't believe he specifically incited violence, and I don't think you could prove it in an actual criminal court with a jury. Impeachment proceedings are a completely different thing - being a political rather than legal proceeding.

    Everything is so volatile right now, I think it would just foment even more unrest. I was reading an argument that you often don't know when you've reached a tipping point until after the fact. I'm worried that we're dangerously close. If we're going to heal, it's best to let Trump mope about the whitehouse for the next 10 days or so. No one in the bureaucracy is going to let him do anything stupid, like start a war or launch a nuke (and honestly I think that kind of rhetoric is irresponsible). I think it was Giuliani, who was advocating Trump to "declassify everything", as a more likely example of "doing something stupid". Even if he did, the bureaucracy would just drag their feet until he is gone.

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I know I give you a hard time, but I appreciate that post even if I don't agree with every point.

    The main point I agree with is the danger of "weaponizing" the Constitution. Every time someone sets a new precedent it blows up in everybody's face. It's a partisan example, but the "nuclear option" is a good example. Harry Reid started it, and it was used against Democrats with the appointment of 3 SC justices. Impeaching Clinton is a decent example of Republicans setting a bad precedent.

    I wholeheartedly agree that it's no surprise the protest on the 6th turned into what it did, and I've said more than a few times that Trump bears blame. I don't believe he specifically incited violence, and I don't think you could prove it in an actual criminal court with a jury. Impeachment proceedings are a completely different thing - being a political rather than legal proceeding.

    Everything is so volatile right now, I think it would just foment even more unrest. I was reading an argument that you often don't know when you've reached a tipping point until after the fact. I'm worried that we're dangerously close. If we're going to heal, it's best to let Trump mope about the whitehouse for the next 10 days or so. No one in the bureaucracy is going to let him do anything stupid, like start a war or launch a nuke (and honestly I think that kind of rhetoric is irresponsible). I think it was Giuliani, who was advocating Trump to "declassify everything", as a more likely example of "doing something stupid". Even if he did, the bureaucracy would just drag their feet until he is gone.
    I agree with every point here.

    But if Trump does one more crazy thing, I say tie him to a chair. Maybe literally.

    And if Maga marches on Washington (or any other capital) again with any signs of hostile intent, bring out the troops. I have never disagreed with troops to "police" demonstrations and keep them to their proscribed borders in their permits.

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    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I know I give you a hard time, but I appreciate that post even if I don't agree with every point.

    The main point I agree with is the danger of "weaponizing" the Constitution. Every time someone sets a new precedent it blows up in everybody's face. It's a partisan example, but the "nuclear option" is a good example. Harry Reid started it, and it was used against Democrats with the appointment of 3 SC justices. Impeaching Clinton is a decent example of Republicans setting a bad precedent.

    I wholeheartedly agree that it's no surprise the protest on the 6th turned into what it did, and I've said more than a few times that Trump bears blame. I don't believe he specifically incited violence, and I don't think you could prove it in an actual criminal court with a jury. Impeachment proceedings are a completely different thing - being a political rather than legal proceeding.

    Everything is so volatile right now, I think it would just foment even more unrest. I was reading an argument that you often don't know when you've reached a tipping point until after the fact. I'm worried that we're dangerously close. If we're going to heal, it's best to let Trump mope about the whitehouse for the next 10 days or so. No one in the bureaucracy is going to let him do anything stupid, like start a war or launch a nuke (and honestly I think that kind of rhetoric is irresponsible). I think it was Giuliani, who was advocating Trump to "declassify everything", as a more likely example of "doing something stupid". Even if he did, the bureaucracy would just drag their feet until he is gone.
    I agree with every point here.

    But if Trump does one more crazy thing, I say tie him to a chair. Maybe literally.

    And if Maga marches on Washington (or any other capital) again with any signs of hostile intent, bring out the troops. I have never disagreed with troops to "police" demonstrations and keep them to their proscribed borders in their permits.
    Tying Trump top a chair...

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi told her House colleagues Friday that she had spoken to the Pentagon’s top general about keeping an “unstable president” from accessing the nuclear codes, as Democrats openly considered impeaching the commander in chief for the second time in just over a year.

    The discussion with Army Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, came after President Trump directed thousands of angry supporters to the Capitol on Wednesday as he refused to concede his election defeat. The crowds broke into the building in an insurrection now linked to the deaths of five people, including a Capitol police officer.

    “The situation of this unhinged President could not be more dangerous, and we must do everything that we can to protect the American people from his unbalanced assault on our country and our democracy,” Pelosi (D-Calif.) wrote in a letter, in which she renewed the threat of impeaching Trump if Vice President Pence did not initiate proceedings for the Cabinet to remove the president under the 25th Amendment.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...555_story.html

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    11 days....

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    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Here are the people who took the Capitol this week, and why. They believe every lie that the Trump Media -- he calls them that -- have spit into cyber-space. They have no grip on reality, on logic, on evidence. They are oblivious. This guy is the retired airforce officer who went into the Capitol with a fist-full of nylon handcuffs. Did he intend to kidnap a senator or representative?

    Tell me again how we can cure psychosis by explaining reality to them?

    Come on dneal. Explain again why they are "middle america" but I am not?

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...NpmgYlkWyP7c6s

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    Here are the people who took the Capitol this week, and why. They believe every lie that the Trump Media -- he calls them that -- have spit into cyber-space. They have no grip on reality, on logic, on evidence. They are oblivious. This guy is the retired airforce officer who went into the Capitol with a fist-full of nylon handcuffs. Did he intend to kidnap a senator or representative?

    Tell me again how we can cure psychosis by explaining reality to them?

    Come on dneal. Explain again why they are "middle america" but I am not?

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-...NpmgYlkWyP7c6s
    You aren't interested in an explanation, and would ignore any given; so why should I bother?

    What's really funny is that a New Yorker wants a middle American to explain why a New Yorker is not a middle American. So let me just turn that around. Please explain why I'm not a New Yorker just because I live in middle America?

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    Default Re: Countdown until the maniac is gone

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    them?

    Come on dneal. Explain again why they are "middle america" but I am not?
    This actually has very little relevance to the discussion, nor could dneal or I have any real understanding of what "class" you are from, nor does the term even have any agreed upon meaning.

    Never mind that.

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