How can Trump-believers be persuaded that he lost an honest election?

[dneal]

How can Trump-believers be persuaded that he lost an honest election? It is not possible to persuade them of such.

Kinda like Hillary and the dems not only believing in the Russian Hoax Hillary paid for, but also that "the Russians" are going to do it again in 2024.

The answer for all those folks remains to adopt the provisions outlined by the Carter-Baker commission.

[kazoolaw]

How can Trump-believers be persuaded that he lost an honest election? It is not possible to persuade them of such.

Saving you a click or two:

https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...l=1#post417210

(Tip o’ the hat to dneal)

[Warbler]

How can Trump-believers be persuaded that he lost an honest election? It is not possible to persuade them of such.

Saving you a click or two:

huh?

https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...l=1#post417210

(Tip o’ the hat to dneal)

yeah right I am sure the entire election was rigged. Why can't you maga people see how silly and stupid this all is? Why is it so hard for you to believe Trump could lose an election? TWS indeed.

[dneal]

...you maga people...

Like I said, TDS - now clearly revealed.

Since over 300,000 missing ballot images can't be explained by Warbler, let alone the Fulton County election rep; maybe we'll make it easier with something you can see. A picture is worth a thousand words, and all that.

When has this ever happened prior to 2020, and why is it unreasonable to have questions about a novel event?

DNC Logo.jpeg

[724Seney]

...you maga people...

Like I said, TDS - now clearly revealed.

Since over 300,000 missing ballot images can't be explained by Warbler, let alone the Fulton County election rep; maybe we'll make it easier with something you can see. A picture is worth a thousand words, and all that.

When has this ever happened prior to 2020, and why is it unreasonable to have questions about a novel event?

DNC Logo.jpeg

He really did "out" himself as the fourth Stooge.
What incredibly stupid timing to make that remark, given the concurrent breaking news from Georgia.

[kazoolaw]

yeah right I am sure the entire election was rigged. Why can't you maga people see how silly and stupid this all is? Why is it so hard for you to believe Trump could lose an election? TWS indeed.

You people? "You maga people?" How very playground.

First off, you missed the question, ignoring "...an honest election...."

Second, you rephrase the question, using "entire election," presumably to argue that not every vote in every state was dishonest.
Yet you fail totally fail to address the video.

Third, you either don't see or ignore the issues in the video: Why would 300,000 ballot images go missing in an honest election? Without anyone noticing? What's the point if their candidate would win without cheating?

Fourth, find somewhere I said Biden isn't President. I won't wait, you won't find it.

[kazoolaw]

There’s more-

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/statu...om%2F646799%2F

[Chuck Naill]

We know who three here are listening to. 😂😂

[dneal]

We know who three here are listening to. 😂😂

Doubtful.

[Warbler]

yeah right I am sure the entire election was rigged. Why can't you maga people see how silly and stupid this all is? Why is it so hard for you to believe Trump could lose an election? TWS indeed.

You people? "You maga people?" How very playground.

You don't like being referred to as maga? stop kissing Trump's rear end. Maybe for once look at him with a critical eye. And that goes for more than just you.

First off, you missed the question, ignoring "...an honest election...."

okay I left out a word. shoot me. But yes, I meant an honest election and I am pretty sure the 2020 election was mostly honest. There is no such thing a 100% honest election. There are always going to be some problems.

Second, you rephrase the question, using "entire election," presumably to argue that not every vote in every state was dishonest.
Yet you fail totally fail to address the video.

You're right I didn't address the video. I have enough info to address it. Also as with anything, sometimes videos can be deceiving. In any case, my point it, was their enough fraud in the entire election to change result of the electoral college? No.

Third, you either don't see or ignore the issues in the video: Why would 300,000 ballot images go missing in an honest election? Without anyone noticing? What's the point if their candidate would win without cheating?

Again I don't have enough info to talk about these ballots. I just know it won't have changed the outcome of the electoral college.

Fourth, find somewhere I said Biden isn't President. I won't wait, you won't find it.

You know what I bet I also won't find? You saying that Biden won the election and that the result wasn't fraudulent. Just all the republicans whom are either Trump yes people or are afraid of his wrath. They agree Biden is President, but if you ask them if Biden won or if the results were fraudulent or something of the like, they start giving you double talk.

btw, did Trump start referring the 2020 election as "stolen" before or after the stuff in Fulton County was found out?

[724Seney]

yeah right I am sure the entire election was rigged. Why can't you maga people see how silly and stupid this all is? Why is it so hard for you to believe Trump could lose an election? TWS indeed.

You people? "You maga people?" How very playground.

You don't like being referred to as maga? stop kissing Trump's rear end. Maybe for once look at him with a critical eye. And that goes for more than just you.

First off, you missed the question, ignoring "...an honest election...."

okay I left out a word. shoot me. But yes, I meant an honest election and I am pretty sure the 2020 election was mostly honest. There is no such thing a 100% honest election. There are always going to be some problems.

Second, you rephrase the question, using "entire election," presumably to argue that not every vote in every state was dishonest.
Yet you fail totally fail to address the video.

You're right I didn't address the video. I have enough info to address it. Also as with anything, sometimes videos can be deceiving. In any case, my point it, was their enough fraud in the entire election to change result of the electoral college? No.

Third, you either don't see or ignore the issues in the video: Why would 300,000 ballot images go missing in an honest election? Without anyone noticing? What's the point if their candidate would win without cheating?

Again I don't have enough info to talk about these ballots. I just know it won't have changed the outcome of the electoral college.

Fourth, find somewhere I said Biden isn't President. I won't wait, you won't find it.

You know what I bet I also won't find? You saying that Biden won the election and that the result wasn't fraudulent. Just all the republicans whom are either Trump yes people or are afraid of his wrath. They agree Biden is President, but if you ask them if Biden won or if the results were fraudulent or something of the like, they start giving you double talk.

btw, did Trump start referring the 2020 election as "stolen" before or after the stuff in Fulton County was found out?

Mr. Tweet: It is absolutely ludicrous that you take umbrage when someone says you have TDS.
Yours is as severe a case as I have ever seen.

But, what makes your case so special is it is mixed in with a heavy portion of putrid arrogance.

In spite of what you may think Tweetle Dee, you are blinded by and driven your hate for the man.
Like it or not, he is going to be your next President. So, get used to it. You have only yourself and your fellow TDS sufferers to thank for it.

It was nice when you migrated away for a while.
Please do it more often.

[dneal]

You're right I didn't address the video. I have enough info to address it.

Pray tell what info you have about the missing 380,000 ballots that no one else (to include the Fulton County election representative) has.

[kazoolaw]

yeah right I am sure the entire election was rigged. Why can't you maga people see how silly and stupid this all is? Why is it so hard for you to believe Trump could lose an election? TWS indeed.

You people? "You maga people?" How very playground.

You don't like being referred to as maga? stop kissing Trump's rear end. Maybe for once look at him with a critical eye. And that goes for more than just you. No, I'm kind of embarrassed that's the best you could do. "Kissing Trump's rear end?" Very weak.

First off, you missed the question, ignoring "...an honest election...."

okay I left out a word. shoot me. But yes, I meant an honest election and I am pretty sure the 2020 election was mostly honest. There is no such thing a 100% honest election. There are always going to be some problems. Is that like mostly unadulterated? Or a little pregnant? Amazed you agree 2020 wasn't entirely honest. Now it's a question of how dishonest we can agree it was: 50-50? 60-40?

Second, you rephrase the question, using "entire election," presumably to argue that not every vote in every state was dishonest.
Yet you fail totally fail to address the videos.

You're right I didn't address the video. I have enough info to address it. Also as with anything, sometimes videos can be deceiving. In any case, my point it, was their enough fraud in the entire election to change result of the electoral college? No. [SIZE=4]You cite no info at all: did you address where the 300,000 images went? While you're there, did you address the twice-counted 3,000 ballots? Can you address the Georgia Secretary of State's finding that Fulton County's recount broke the law? No, no, and no. [SIZE]

Third, you either don't see or ignore the issues in the video: Why would 300,000 ballot images go missing in an honest election? Without anyone noticing? And the second link noted 3,000 ballots counted twice. What's the point if their candidate would win without cheating?

Again I don't have enough info to talk about these ballots. I just know it won't have changed the outcome of the electoral college. Which is it: Do you or don't you have enough info to discuss the ballots? You've said both. Words matter. What percent of election dishonesty do you assign, either in Fulton County or nationwide?

Fourth, find somewhere I said Biden isn't President. I won't wait, you won't find it.

You know what I bet I also won't find? You saying that Biden won the election and that the result wasn't fraudulent. Just all the republicans whom are either Trump yes people or are afraid of his wrath. They agree Biden is President, but if you ask them if Biden won or if the results were fraudulent or something of the like, they start giving you double talk.Biden won the election. As the video about Georgia demonstrates, new information continues to come out on the issue of fraud. Evidence , but not conclusive, election fraud. Now, go talk to HRC about continuing to claim election fraud. Remember, her campaign was fined for buying the Steele report. Seems like that's proof of election fraud; did they try harder in 2020? Motivation is always relevant.


btw, did Trump start referring the 2020 election as "stolen" before or after the stuff in Fulton County was found out?Before. You're thinking it makes him prescient, right?

Missing words in haste. Contradicting yourself by saying you do, and don't have information.
But at least you admit the election was dishonest.
The first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem.

[welch]

Go back and read from the beginning. Every presidential vote in a swing state was challenged. Every time a judge reviewed the evidence and found against the Trumpers. It is all here. dneal read it along with all the rest of us. He accepted each judge's decisions.

Trump's all-imaginary complaints have since become a bed-rock article of a religion that calls Trump a god. People were fired from the Republican National Committee for thinking maybe that he lost all those states. For doubting that, for instance, ballots were printed in China and flown to the US, or maybe sailed by submarine. A million Mexicans crossed the New Hampshire border from Canada and voted there. Trump went to sleep -- Dozy Don -- as votes were being counted and -- yipes -- he woke up to find that the vote counts had turned against him. A mathematics professor insisted that Georgians could not have changed their minds between 2016 and 2020; therefore, Trump must have won Georgia.

MAGA lunatics did "forensic audits" in Arizona, finding, oops, that the humble election clerks counted the votes honestly and accurately. Michigan has arrested a pair of Trumpist True Believers who stole voting machines and would not give them back, holding the machines for ransom, no doubt, and, no doubt demanding that the state pay in crypto currency so the ransom cannot be traced. Others rummaged through voting machines in Georgia. A law professor from California declared that states could send un-elected electors to vote in Washington, regardless of all the state laws that have passed since at least the Jackson administration ensuring that electors belong to whichever candidate wins the most votes.

A Trump's lawyer told the Supreme Court that it would be legal for a President to stage a coup, unless the House impeached that President and the Senate sustained the impeachment. As if a coup would leave the House and Senate free to meet, impeach, and enforce an impeachment; as if then, and only then, the Justice Department could arrest the President-Turned-Dictator.

And now a YouTube snip claims that 300,000 votes in Atlanta have vanished after, um, MAGA fanatics "examined" hard disk drives in voting machines. Perhaps it is time for details, such as evidence, such as reporting? Best I remember, a Republican legislature committee in Georgia "honestly" claimed that videos "proved" that election workers pulled boxes of ballots from under a table...the same boxes that the vote counters had locked and pushed under the same table when election workers took a break about 2am.

[dneal]

Go back and read from the beginning. Every presidential vote in a swing state was challenged. Every time a judge reviewed the evidence and found against the Trumpers. It is all here. dneal read it along with all the rest of us. He accepted each judge's decisions.

Trump's all-imaginary complaints have since become a bed-rock article of a religion that calls Trump a god. People were fired from the Republican National Committee for thinking maybe that he lost all those states. For doubting that, for instance, ballots were printed in China and flown to the US, or maybe sailed by submarine. A million Mexicans crossed the New Hampshire border from Canada and voted there. Trump went to sleep -- Dozy Don -- as votes were being counted and -- yipes -- he woke up to find that the vote counts had turned against him. A mathematics professor insisted that Georgians could not have changed their minds between 2016 and 2020; therefore, Trump must have won Georgia.

MAGA lunatics did "forensic audits" in Arizona, finding, oops, that the humble election clerks counted the votes honestly and accurately. Michigan has arrested a pair of Trumpist True Believers who stole voting machines and would not give them back, holding the machines for ransom, no doubt, and, no doubt demanding that the state pay in crypto currency so the ransom cannot be traced. Others rummaged through voting machines in Georgia. A law professor from California declared that states could send un-elected electors to vote in Washington, regardless of all the state laws that have passed since at least the Jackson administration ensuring that electors belong to whichever candidate wins the most votes.

A Trump's lawyer told the Supreme Court that it would be legal for a President to stage a coup, unless the House impeached that President and the Senate sustained the impeachment. As if a coup would leave the House and Senate free to meet, impeach, and enforce an impeachment; as if then, and only then, the Justice Department could arrest the President-Turned-Dictator.

And now a YouTube snip claims that 300,000 votes in Atlanta have vanished after, um, MAGA fanatics "examined" hard disk drives in voting machines. Perhaps it is time for details, such as evidence, such as reporting? Best I remember, a Republican legislature committee in Georgia "honestly" claimed that videos "proved" that election workers pulled boxes of ballots from under a table...the same boxes that the vote counters had locked and pushed under the same table when election workers took a break about 2am.

This, like your OP, is your TDS talking. Don’t take my word for it though, let’s look at this post:

…the opening of this thread:
"must coddle right-wing delusion"

Opening a discussion in this manner is opening it in bad faith, a complete unwillingness to enter with an open mind and to engage the discussion on its merits. That was equally true of the title, which amounts to no more than, "How can I convince you you're wrong." You most certainly won't convince anyone of anything in this manner.

Note your completely objective characterization of an 8 hour hearing as a “YouTube snip”, and now missing ballot images which you blame on “MAGA fanatics”.

[Warbler]

yeah right I am sure the entire election was rigged. Why can't you maga people see how silly and stupid this all is? Why is it so hard for you to believe Trump could lose an election? TWS indeed.

You people? "You maga people?" How very playground.

You don't like being referred to as maga? stop kissing Trump's rear end. Maybe for once look at him with a critical eye. And that goes for more than just you.

No, I'm kind of embarrassed that's the best you could do. "Kissing Trump's rear end?" Very weak.

No, what is weak is the way you and other defend Trump.

First off, you missed the question, ignoring "...an honest election...."

okay I left out a word. shoot me. But yes, I meant an honest election and I am pretty sure the 2020 election was mostly honest. There is no such thing a 100% honest election. There are always going to be some problems.

Is that like mostly unadulterated? Or a little pregnant? Amazed you agree 2020 wasn't entirely honest. Now it's a question of how dishonest we can agree it was: 50-50? 60-40?

the dishonestly was small enough that it didn't effect the outcome of the electoral college. All I admit is that there is never an election with absolutely zero fraud. or do you want to disagree with that? Tell me, if I were to find some small amount of fraud from the 2016 election, would that mean Trump stole that election?

Second, you rephrase the question, using "entire election," presumably to argue that not every vote in every state was dishonest.
Yet you fail totally fail to address the videos.

You're right I didn't address the video. I have enough info to address it. Also as with anything, sometimes videos can be deceiving. In any case, my point iS, was there enough fraud in the entire election to change result of the electoral college? No.

You cite no info at all: did you address where the 300,000 images went? While you're there, did you address the twice-counted 3,000 ballots? Can you address the Georgia Secretary of State's finding that Fulton County's recount broke the law? No, no, and no.

I made a typo I meant to say "I don't have enough info to address it. But what I do know is that Georgia's 16 electoral votes would not have been enough to give the election to Trump.

Third, you either don't see or ignore the issues in the video: Why would 300,000 ballot images go missing in an honest election? Without anyone noticing? And the second link noted 3,000 ballots counted twice. What's the point if their candidate would win without cheating?

Again I don't have enough info to talk about these ballots. I just know it won't have changed the outcome of the electoral college.

Which is it: Do you or don't you have enough info to discuss the ballots? You've said both. Words matter. What percent of election dishonesty do you assign, either in Fulton County or nationwide?

again, I committed a typo above which caused a contradiction. I can't give you an exact percent of election dishonest(if that is what it is) what I can say is that it was not enough to change the outcome of the electoral college.

Fourth, find somewhere I said Biden isn't President. I won't wait, you won't find it.

You know what I bet I also won't find? You saying that Biden won the election and that the result wasn't fraudulent. Just all the republicans whom are either Trump yes people or are afraid of his wrath. They agree Biden is President, but if you ask them if Biden won or if the results were fraudulent or something of the like, they start giving you double talk.

Biden won the election. As the video about Georgia demonstrates, new information continues to come out on the issue of fraud. Evidence , but not conclusive, election fraud. Now, go talk to HRC about continuing to claim election fraud. Remember, her campaign was fined for buying the Steele report. Seems like that's proof of election fraud; did they try harder in 2020? Motivation is always relevant.

I am honestly surprised you say Biden won the election. You realize any republican politician saying that would get disowned by Trump, right? As for HRC, didn't she concede the election on the day after election day? didn't she attend Trump's swearing in? Instead Trump acted like a crybaby. He refused to concede, refused to come to Biden's swearing in, and caused Jan 6.

btw, did Trump start referring the 2020 election as "stolen" before or after the stuff in Fulton County was found out?

Before. You're thinking it makes him prescient, right?

No I'm thinking that makes him an idiot and crybaby for claiming fraud before he hand any evidence of it. If you want to claim fraud you have to have a good reason for doing so. That a good reason comes up after you made the claim, doesn't mean it was right to make the claim when you made it. Also he didn't just claim there was was fraud in one county in Georgia, he claimed(again without good reason) that there was enough fraud that it would change the result of the electoral college.

Missing words in haste. Contradicting yourself by saying you do, and don't have information.

I am not contradicting myself. I am typo. I don't have much info about that video regarding missing ballots from Fulton County. What do know is this: the results of the electoral college was Biden:306 Trump: 232. lets say there was enough fraud in Georgia to change the results in Georgia giving the state to Trump instead. Georgia has 16 electoral votes. That would have made the result of the electoral college Biden 290 Trump: 248. Biden would still have won.

But at least you admit the election was dishonest.
The first step to recovery is admitting there is a problem.

I admit the election had a certain amount of fraud, just like every election does, but not enough to change the results of the electoral college.

[Warbler]

2020 Electoral College results

Biden: 306 Trump: 232 A 74 vote difference. This means you would need to find 38 electoral votes that were won by Biden via fraud or mistake or etc, that should have going to Trump.

[dneal]

2020 Electoral College results

Biden: 306 Trump: 232 A 74 vote difference. This means you would need to find 38 electoral votes that were won by Biden via fraud or mistake or etc, that should have going to Trump.

You really don’t know what goes on in the world, do you?

Pennsylvania: 20
Wisconsin: 10
Michigan: 16
Georgia: 16

62 electoral votes in the 4 States with questionable results. That’s the argument from the Trump campaign.

If they went the other way, the result is Biden: 244 Trump: 294

[mhosea]

2020 Electoral College results

Biden: 306 Trump: 232 A 74 vote difference. This means you would need to find 38 electoral votes that were won by Biden via fraud or mistake or etc, that should have going to Trump.

Pennsylvania: 20
Wisconsin: 10
Michigan: 16
Georgia: 16

62 electoral votes in the 4 States with questionable results.

If they went the other way, the result is Biden: 244 Trump: 294

I remember watching the returns come in on election night and seeing a simultaneous pause in incremental reporting from those exact states. Trump's response was unwise, though. He fell for every disinformation campaign and listened to all the wrong legal advisors. It was painful to watch, especially painful to see that they almost got a signature match audit in Georgia, but as soon as Sidney Powell started talking about the Kraken nonsense, it collapsed into a recount. Hmmm, I wonder who could have been behind the false information that Sidney Powell staked her reputation on. Who would benefit from a disinformation campaign like that? Consider that it was reasonably easy to discredit the theory with a simple recount.

[dneal]

2020 Electoral College results

Biden: 306 Trump: 232 A 74 vote difference. This means you would need to find 38 electoral votes that were won by Biden via fraud or mistake or etc, that should have going to Trump.

Pennsylvania: 20
Wisconsin: 10
Michigan: 16
Georgia: 16

62 electoral votes in the 4 States with questionable results.

If they went the other way, the result is Biden: 244 Trump: 294

I remember watching the returns come in on election night and seeing a simultaneous pause in incremental reporting from those exact states. Trump's response was pure idiocy, though. He fell for every disinformation campaign and listened to all the wrong legal advisors. It was painful to watch, especially painful to see that they almost got a signature match audit in Georgia, but as soon as Sidney Powell started running her mouth with the Kraken nonsense, it collapsed into a recount. Hmmm, I wonder who could have been behind the false information that Sidney Powell staked her reputation on. Who would benefit from a disinformation campaign like that? Consider that it was reasonably easy to discredit the theory with a simple recount.

Between this and Corniche's "I can't fathom this election" thread, I've been pretty clear on my position. That position is routinely mischaracterized by those suffering from TDS. I don't use that as a snide pejorative, but with all sincerity. Trump caused people to behave irrationally, and still does. I find it interesting from a social psychology perspective, and also simply amusing. The same is the case with the pandemic.

To reiterate: There were several anomalies in the four metro areas of the four swing states listed above. Many were found to be in violation of law, now after the fact. Pennsylvania violated their own constitution. Zuckerbucks funded drop boxes that were unmonitored. Poll watchers went home in Atlanta after being told counting was ended for the evening, and we saw the counting resume shortly after the poll watchers left.

I watched the testimony at various state congressional committees, with people ranging from credible to kooky. I saw lots of circumstantial evidence that the Trump side believed conclusive, and I saw the anti-Trump side dismiss it immediately and ridicule the notion of audits or investigation. I still see it in welch's latest post. I suppose folks who believe something vehemently can also only see things in terms of false dichotomies. Skwerlmaster's complete post I cited a portion of is spot-on.

None of that circumstantial evidence is conclusive proof. There is more than enough to at least raise eyebrows. Again, when have we ever seen data plot in the fashion depicted in the graphic above? I'd like a more thorough investigation just so the country would shut up about it, but also because I'd like to know what actually did (or didn't) happen. The Democrat Party has a long history of manipulating elections, whether through their (in)famous "machines" or through examples like the "Battle of Athens". "Russian Collusion" was a hoax they created and nearly impeached a President with. If they leveraged mail-in ballot fraud in four metro areas in four swing states to "steal" an election, I'm impressed by the brilliance of the plan.

Reasonable discourse where the Orange Man is involved has been impossible since he won in 2016. If the Trump deranged are going to vent their juvenile emotions, ad nauseam, I'm left with posting the information that contradicts their narratives and laughing at their overreactions.

I have a long list of people I'd like to see President other than Trump, but I admit there's a mischievous part of me that would like to see Trump win just because the Schadenfreude that would accompany the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I just wish they would get some new rhetoric. "Hitler", "Dictator" and "End of Democracy" has become awfully tired.