How can Trump-believers be persuaded that he lost an honest election?

[kazoolaw]

There is enough to connect the dots without any outside smear attempt .

And here I thought the outside smear was was the dots.

[Chuck Naill]

Cute, Kaz 😂

[dneal]

Do you think Pence didn’t contact Quale?

Never gave it any thought. Maybe, but Pence was going to do what he did anyway; which I think was the right thing.

Trump availed himself of the law, criticisms in the article notwithstanding (and an indicator of how kooky the author is…). It didn’t work out for Trump, but that’s why the courts are there. The “coup” conspiracy theory is ridiculous.

Perhaps another question is: “How can the Trump-haters be convinced that he is not a danger to democracy?”

[Chuck Naill]

According to Woodward, Pence toyed with the idea of giving Trump a win. That’s why he called the only living ex VP.

[Chuck Naill]

I guess if you could cause them to loose their memory it might help convince .

[TSherbs]

Well, there ya have it. A worthless review process costing millions of dollars all to avail us of nothing we had not already had confirmed for us.

But the point, all along, has been to sow doubts in order to change procedures and limit access. It was never about changing this outcome. This has been a much more cynical, manipulative move toward the gullible and suspicious among us, and to provide cover for cynical changes to voting procedures.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...421f6871b4f74e

[TSherbs]

Doubts and suspicions are like dust in the air, hampering vision and breathing. The key for cynical efforts to spread this pollutant is to periodically stir it back up and get it in the air in order to give energy and acceptance to the idea that additional protective and restrictive measures need to be implemented (to guard against what isn't actually happening--fraud, that is). I think that we will see a string of states each taking their turn initiating these bogus and frivolous "audits," keeping the foul dust of suspicion in the news, on social media, and in the minds and strategies of state legislatures.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[welch]

Hand count in audit affirms Biden beat Trump, as Maricopa County said in November

Jen Fifield
Robert Anglen
Arizona Republic

A monthslong hand recount of Maricopa County’s 2020 vote confirmed that President Joe Biden won and the election was not “stolen” from former President Donald Trump, according to early versions of a report prepared for the Arizona Senate.

The three-volume report by the Cyber Ninjas, the Senate’s lead contractor, includes results that show Trump lost by a wider margin than the county’s official election results. The data in the report also confirms that U.S. Sen. Mark Kelly won in the county.

The official results are set to be presented to the Senate at 1 p.m. Friday. Several versions of the draft report, titled “Maricopa County Forensic Audit” by Cyber Ninjas, circulated prematurely on Wednesday and Thursday. Multiple versions were obtained by The Arizona Republic.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...Ml2psOz6bX4bmE

[welch]

1:45 p.m.: Virginia, Georgia Republicans on hand for report

Several members of the national “Election Integrity Caucus” flew to Phoenix for Friday’s review of the state Senate’s election audit, hoping to gather information they’ll use for election reviews in their own states.


Arizona state Sen. Wendy Rogers, R-Flagstaff, was a founding member of the group and traveled to Virginia last month to push for an Arizona-style audit there. Rogers said at the time that the group reminded her of the Continental Congress. She told conservative media it would be used to start audits like Arizona’s in every state.

Virginia state Sen. Amanda Chase, a Republican who traveled to Phoenix to see the ballot review this summer, said the group was in the Senate gallery on Friday to “hear for ourselves what the Arizona brave legislators are going to show us today.”

She said she didn’t want the information “filtered through the fake media.”

The group expects to put out a press release this week after getting a briefing from the group’s Arizona delegation. Even if the final report is similar to draft reports that show Biden still won, “there are concerns that are out there in Virginia,” she said.

“We said that no matter what the results were, we can do better,” she said. “I’ve been committed to fully finding out what happened so it never happens again.”

YG Nyghtstorm, a Republican candidate for Congress in Georgia, is also part of the group. He said that when a large number of voters don’t trust the system, “you owe it to the electorate to some kind of investigation.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ty/5673563001/

[TSherbs]

Welch, I find this line most telling: “I’ve been committed to fully finding out what happened so it never happens again.”

What happened? Nada. But by God, she's gonna say it as if something did "so it never happens again." And what is that "it"? Some bogus idea of fraud that never actually happened, anywhere!

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chuck Naill]

Apparently Quale said he lived in Arizona and that there was nothing out here or something similar.

Pretty obvious Pence was willing to circumvent

[TSherbs]

Apparently Quale said he lived in Arizona and that there was nothing out here or something similar.

Pretty obvious Pence was willing to circumvent

I don't mind that Pence made the call. He needed ammo to say no to the Great Orange Child. But he still didn't have the guts to call Trump and tell him to his face: he had a letter sent as he was going to the chamber.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[welch]

Welch, I find this line most telling: “I’ve been committed to fully finding out what happened so it never happens again.”

What happened? Nada. But by God, she's gonna say it as if something did "so it never happens again." And what is that "it"? Some bogus idea of fraud that never actually happened, anywhere!

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

We know Amanda Chase means "Don't allow a free election again. Make the USA just like Hungary". She calls herself "Trump in heels". The far-right-winger who convinced the Virginia Republican Party that she would sink them if she ran for Governor, so the Party leaders convened to choose a more moderate candidate. She's a nut.

[dneal]

Well, there ya have it. A worthless review process costing millions of dollars all to avail us of nothing we had not already had confirmed for us.

But the point, all along, has been to sow doubts in order to change procedures and limit access. It was never about changing this outcome. This has been a much more cynical, manipulative move toward the gullible and suspicious among us, and to provide cover for cynical changes to voting procedures.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-tr...421f6871b4f74e

Kind of like “Russian Collusion”.

[dneal]

According to Woodward, Pence toyed with the idea of giving Trump a win. That’s why he called the only living ex VP.

Woodward and his “unnamed sources” have been wrong on pretty much everything after Watergate. Rumor substituted for fact, which no one ever corroborates. Talk about conspiracy theories…

[TSherbs]

Damn right:

POLITICO: ‘You’ve disgraced this country’: Judge rips Capitol riot defendant.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...fendant-514136

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chuck Naill]

According to Woodward, Pence toyed with the idea of giving Trump a win. That’s why he called the only living ex VP.

Woodward and his “unnamed sources” have been wrong on pretty much everything after Watergate. Rumor substituted for fact, which no one ever corroborates. Talk about conspiracy theories…

Show proof, or otherwise you're shooting blanks.

[TSherbs]

Doubts and suspicions are like dust in the air, hampering vision and breathing. The key for cynical efforts to spread this pollutant is to periodically stir it back up and get it in the air in order to give energy and acceptance to the idea that additional protective and restrictive measures need to be implemented (to guard against what isn't actually happening--fraud, that is). I think that we will see a string of states each taking their turn initiating these bogus and frivolous "audits," keeping the foul dust of suspicion in the news, on social media, and in the minds and strategies of state legislatures.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Oh look, here comes Texas, apparently doing Trump's bidding:

CNN: County officials in Texas say they are in the dark following 'audit' announcement.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/24/polit...als/index.html

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[dneal]

According to Woodward, Pence toyed with the idea of giving Trump a win. That’s why he called the only living ex VP.

Woodward and his “unnamed sources” have been wrong on pretty much everything after Watergate. Rumor substituted for fact, which no one ever corroborates. Talk about conspiracy theories…

Show proof, or otherwise you're shooting blanks.

I just complained that the problem with Woodward is that he doesn't show proof, and you want me to show proof of that? He's always citing Schroedinger's Cat (i.e.: his "unnamed sources"). One of his Trump claims originated from someone who multiple sources said wasn't even in the room. Maybe he just listens to bullshit gossip...

Or you want me to show proof of Woodward's history of sketchiness? Ok, that's as obvious as Paul Krugman is wrong, but here's one of many. Politico is pretty neutral.

BANG!

[Chuck Naill]

According to Woodward, Pence toyed with the idea of giving Trump a win. That’s why he called the only living ex VP.

Woodward and his “unnamed sources” have been wrong on pretty much everything after Watergate. Rumor substituted for fact, which no one ever corroborates. Talk about conspiracy theories…

Show proof, or otherwise you're shooting blanks.

I just complained that the problem with Woodward is that he doesn't show proof, and you want me to show proof of that? He's always citing Schroedinger's Cat (i.e.: his "unnamed sources"). One of his Trump claims originated from someone who multiple sources said wasn't even in the room. Maybe he just listens to bullshit gossip...

Or you want me to show proof of Woodward's history of sketchiness? Ok, that's as obvious as Paul Krugman is wrong, but here's one of many. Politico is pretty neutral.

BANG!

That's a whataboutthis argument. I understand that Woodward has been criticized, but you are using it to discredit his and Costa's work on the latest book. I've paid attenion to Robert Costa for years. He is a serious, well educated (Cambridge), elite journalist with a lot of experience both domestic and abroad to be only 35. Lying would seriously derail a career.