How useful is flex in a fine nib?

[Ole Juul]

I just got a Penol Ambassador with a fine tip. It's a very different feel from any of my other pens. I enjoy different writing experiences and don't tend to think as any particular pen as being perfect. Regardless, this one has a lovely medium-flex nib, but being a fine tip, I can't really see much advantage to the flex. Being fine, if you push on the nib it digs into the paper and offers more resistance that seems workable. Perhaps using hard surfaced paper will change that, but the papers I use aren't like that. I could also polish the nib a bit, but I don't want to change anything until I've really got a feel for the pen.

I'm wondering, how do other people relate to flex in a fine nib?

[RobJohnson]

Some people calculate the flex, for example they say F to BBB.

If it is a medium flex you might reach F to B, and for me at least that would be just right for everyday use, enough to have noticeable line variation in modern style writing.

Be wary about using too much pressure, you can easily overcook matters. I look to limit the pressure so that I can go XXF to B rather than trying to push the B, if that makes sense

[eachan]

The greatest demand, on Deb's sales site at least, is for fine full flex. Ole Juul, you say that being fine it digs into the paper when pressure is applied. Put simply, that's too much pressure for the nib, perhaps trying to get full flex out of a semiflexible nib. A true fine full flex will give maximum line variation with barely perceptible pressure. Though I like feedback in firm fine nibs, I polish fine flex. You can't get optimum line variation with a nib that drags. Also, I would go so far as to say that if you have to apply noticeable pressure to obtain line variation, the nib isn't really flexible, regardless of nib width.

[wingwiper]

I just got a Penol Ambassador with a fine tip. It's a very different feel from any of my other pens. I enjoy different writing experiences and don't tend to think as any particular pen as being perfect. Regardless, this one has a lovely medium-flex nib, but being a fine tip, I can't really see much advantage to the flex. Being fine, if you push on the nib it digs into the paper and offers more resistance that seems workable. Perhaps using hard surfaced paper will change that, but the papers I use aren't like that. I could also polish the nib a bit, but I don't want to change anything until I've really got a feel for the pen.

I'm wondering, how do other people relate to flex in a fine nib?

If your pushing that hard where to find flex that is not a flex nib when it is digging into the paper. A real and usually vintage flex nib people like a fine it should go from fine to BBB/+-. Some of the modern so called flex nibs you find it hard going from fine past broad? The vintage 14k flex nibs have good metal memory and go back, snap back (the tines) where you started...........some modern flex nibs sometimes will not snap back where you might have to go back to re-align the tines?

I myself pefer fine, if not extra-fine to needle point in a flex nib to gain more line variation. Not as much line variation in a medium or wider nib when flexing. I do have a couple broad Pelikan nibs I got back from John Mottishaw........must be 20 years now that modded a broad into a CSI with quite a bit flex that really behaves well and a double broad 800 nib he made into a flexy stub- not your everyday nib, but fun to write with.

I have a few Waterman, Warranted semi-flex that flex more than so call modern flex nibs?

So to answer your question over the many years of collecting I have found myself preferring the finer the better when it comes to real flex, albeit enjoy my medium-broad nib flex for signatures, headings and just playing around. And let me say this..........DO NO be scared of vintage pens with sacs! Use the right ink and they last a long time, especially if you flush every once in a while.

Pendleton Brown has a grind he calls his "Bad Boy with angel wings".........BLS. He did a TWSBI 580 for me and I have to admit for a steel nib it isn't bad. It is a broad and actually has deent flex. I sort of over flexed it one time where it the tines separated, however pushed them back, snapped back into place and the darn thing writes like a dream.

I find the best bang for the buck is grabbing one of Greg Minuskin's user, well used (even beater if you want to call it) flex pens. You can easily find one when he puts up anywhere from $100.00-$150.00..........which is CHEAP for a gold nibbed flex pen. Of course that is not the norm as a lot of his flex pens go over $200.00, yet still cheap compared to modern, ebay, etc.

[Ole Juul]

The greatest demand, on Deb's sales site at least, is for fine full flex. Ole Juul, you say that being fine it digs into the paper when pressure is applied. Put simply, that's too much pressure for the nib, perhaps trying to get full flex out of a semiflexible nib. A true fine full flex will give maximum line variation with barely perceptible pressure. Though I like feedback in firm fine nibs, I polish fine flex. You can't get optimum line variation with a nib that drags. Also, I would go so far as to say that if you have to apply noticeable pressure to obtain line variation, the nib isn't really flexible, regardless of nib width.

Thanks, that's useful. I'm not especially interested in flex as I don't like cursive writing, and I don't like to push on a pen at all. However a little flex feels nice and makes writing interesting. I guess this pen is not very flexible I don't yet have enough experience to judge except what others say about the pens that I have bought. One is an Esterbrook 9788 which is market for flex writing, and this one is a little less flexible.

[Pterodactylus]

Actually I also prefer fine flex nibs over broad ones.

[Detman101]

I write only with Flex nibs, In cursive and block.
They are all Extra-Fine, soft, steel and gold nibs...further finished for smoothness (mandatory for good flex-writing) with one 14k Needlepoint Flex in the works.
My thinking is that if you desire line variation, starting with the smallest/thinnest line possible grants the greatest chances at variance.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

If I want to practice a flourished script I reach for my dip pens. Fountain pens don't exhibit the same ease of flexibility found in, say, an Ivison Phinney#1 nib or a Leonardt Principal nib. However, I do enjoy the bouncy ride that I get with flexible fountain pen nibs.

[Pterodactylus]

If I want to practice a flourished script I reach for my dip pens. Fountain pens don't exhibit the same ease of flexibility found in, say, an Ivison Phinney#1 nib or a Leonardt Principal nib. However, I do enjoy the bouncy ride that I get with flexible fountain pen nibs.

Yeah you are right, dip nibs are undoubted the kings of flexibility and precision.

This reminds me that we didn’t see something written from you since a long time.
Which is a pity, as your penmanship is excellent. Discreet hint to publish more written stuff again 😜

[eachan]

The greatest demand, on Deb's sales site at least, is for fine full flex. Ole Juul, you say that being fine it digs into the paper when pressure is applied. Put simply, that's too much pressure for the nib, perhaps trying to get full flex out of a semiflexible nib. A true fine full flex will give maximum line variation with barely perceptible pressure. Though I like feedback in firm fine nibs, I polish fine flex. You can't get optimum line variation with a nib that drags. Also, I would go so far as to say that if you have to apply noticeable pressure to obtain line variation, the nib isn't really flexible, regardless of nib width.

Thanks, that's useful. I'm not especially interested in flex as I don't like cursive writing, and I don't like to push on a pen at all. However a little flex feels nice and makes writing interesting. I guess this pen is not very flexible I don't yet have enough experience to judge except what others say about the pens that I have bought. One is an Esterbrook 9788 which is market for flex writing, and this one is a little less flexible.

All my own pens are firm fine but I have to be able to test flex and attempt to evaluate it.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Finding a fine/extra fine flexible nib in a fountain pen is extremely difficult these days.

[manoeuver]

Finding a fine/extra fine flexible nib in a fountain pen is extremely difficult these days.

I've found it's only as difficult as finding enough money to send to John Mottishaw!

[Skwerlmasta]

I've seen a few lately in some of the shops but the prices seem to indicate that they have become a bit more rare.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Finding a fine/extra fine flexible nib in a fountain pen is extremely difficult these days.

I've found it's only as difficult as finding enough money to send to John Mottishaw!

Not sure what this relates to, other than the so-called Spencerian grind on the Pilot FA nib. I was really thinking more about vintage availability.

[Yazeh]

It could also be your paper, Ole. Cotton paper is more toothy and catches the fine nib.

[Ole Juul]

It could also be your paper, Ole. Cotton paper is more toothy and catches the fine nib.

Yes indeed. I don't think people here understand that when I say "hard surfaced" paper (in my OP), I'm talking about the wooden stuff that most people use. I think that few people will have the same experience with a fine nib that I have.

In any case, it's all good. The nib is only minimally flexible and that's not going to show on soft paper. I'm happy with what I got, though I'll probably find a wetter ink for it.

[Ray-VIgo]

With true flex, you're not pushing the pen at all. What happens is as you write naturally, the nib flexes and creates line variations. There's nothing conscious about it - you're writing normally with light or minimal pressure or reasonable pressure, and the nib is flexing as you normally write. If you have to apply extra pressure, then it's not really a flexible nib, tough it might be soft feeling or might give you a little line variation.

I have only marginal use for full flex in my work. Most of what I'm doing is note taking or keeping up with a meeting or doing research. So I like either firm nibs, or nibs with just a little softness to them. In the latter category, I really like Sheaffer's Feathertouch, Stephens Warranted 14ct, some of the older Waterman's #2 and Pelikan soft/semi-flex nibs. Usually it's a fine/medium to start with and maybe there's a little line variation, but not enough to lose control of the line. Mainly it has a little "feel" to it, but it's not really flexible. If you're doing calligraphy or showy writing, then full flex offers you more, but it always should be natural and not something where you push down.

[Ole Juul]

With true flex, you're not pushing the pen at all. What happens is as you write naturally, the nib flexes and creates line variations. There's nothing conscious about it - you're writing normally with light or minimal pressure or reasonable pressure, and the nib is flexing as you normally write. If you have to apply extra pressure, then it's not really a flexible nib, tough it might be soft feeling or might give you a little line variation.

That's been my experience too so far. My other more flexible pens show line variation in just my normal writing. Like I say, I have zero interest in calligraphy type writing (in fact I dislike it). This pen does show a little line variation on hard wooden papers like Tamoe for example.

PS: when I say "push down" I'm talking physics, where an actual force is absolutely needed to have something happen. Nothing happens without a force. I'm so sorry I used the term because it appears that people think that I'm pushing hard on the pen but I'm not that kind of person.

[Pterodactylus]

Show_response_1927 by Ptero Ptero, auf Flickr

(Montblanc 149 - Calligraphy ..... Montblanc Midnight Blue IG)

[Skwerlmasta]

If anyone is interested in a flex nib, I found this:
https://www.protopens.com/rare-vinta...-pen-1267.html

I am not affiliated with the site nor have I experience with them. I found the site while looking through some older marketplace feedback posts. Used to be uberpens.com.