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Thread: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

  1. #21
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    How does someone become an
    " objective person who sees through then BS"? Is it when they agree with your BS?
    The answer is contained in what you omitted.

    Reading if fundamental.
    "if fundamental" LOL!! DA!! Perhaps writing is also fundamental.
    Chuck, may I refer you to your post 10 above?

  2. #22
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Trump wasn't a threat to democracy or any of the other nonsense the left shouted....
    Tell that to the family of Brian Sicknick. I guess those who beat him to death and then entered the Capitol were showing a kind of respect for the outcome of the vote? You know, "Yay, electoral process! Yay certification!" And Trump, too!

    You are getting weirder, dneal. Get off the internet. Get out of those dark places that the algorithms are serving up to you (or that you are hunting for). Seriously.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post

    More false equivalency.
    TS-
    You must understand that no matter how often you keep repeating a new term you've found that is doesn't apply to everything.
    If the shoe still fits....

  4. #24
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    How does someone become an
    " objective person who sees through then BS"? Is it when they agree with your BS?
    The answer is contained in what you omitted.

    Reading if fundamental.
    "if fundamental" LOL!! DA!! Perhaps writing is also fundamental.
    Just checking to see if you’re reading.

    Nice dodge though.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  5. #25
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Trump wasn't a threat to democracy or any of the other nonsense the left shouted....
    Tell that to the family of Brian Sicknick. I guess those who beat him to death and then entered the Capitol were showing a kind of respect for the outcome of the vote? You know, "Yay, electoral process! Yay certification!" And Trump, too!

    You are getting weirder, dneal. Get off the internet. Get out of those dark places that the algorithms are serving up to you (or that you are hunting for). Seriously.
    Nope, Trump isn't responsible for that nonsense either. Nice irrelevant appeal to emotion though.

    I suppose when you suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, everyone who has a different point of view seems "weird".

    Put down your kool aid.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  6. #26
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    When it's your friends gathering, it's a party; when it's your opponents, a conspiracy.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Ray-VIgo For This Useful Post:

    dneal (February 8th, 2021)

  8. #27
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Ray-Vigo: happy to party with you.

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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Tell that to the family of Brian Sicknick. I guess those who beat him to death and then entered the Capitol were showing a kind of respect for the outcome of the vote? You know, "Yay, electoral process! Yay certification!" And Trump, too!
    Donald Trump said to walk down to the Capitol and cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. Some 30,000 of them walked down to the Capitol and protested peacefully. Had the crowd actually been incited to riot, they would have overrun the entire building almost immediately.

    John Sullivan, an alt left agitator, climbed in through a broken window in the Capitol wearing a gas mask and body armor. He then said "Let's burn this shit down" and also "We accomplished this shit. We did this together. Fuck yeah! We are all a part of this history".

    Now who was inciting the crowd to riot? Hint: Their role models are the Red Guard.

    You are getting weirder, dneal.
    Pot-kettle-black.
    Last edited by Pendragon; February 10th, 2021 at 02:57 AM.

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    calamus (February 23rd, 2021)

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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon View Post
    Donald Trump said to walk down to the Capitol and cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. Some 30,000 of them walked down to the Capitol and protested peacefully. Had the crowd actually been incited to riot, they would have overrun the entire building almost immediately.

    John Sullivan, an alt left agitator, climbed in through a broken window in the Capitol wearing a gas mask and body armor. He then said "Let's burn this shit down" and also "We accomplished this shit. We did this together. Fuck yeah! We are all a part of this history".

    Now who was inciting the crowd to riot? Hint: Their role models are the Red Guard.

    You are getting weirder, dneal.
    Pot-kettle-black.
    Hint? This is insane. What do you know about the Red Guards, Pendragon?

    Hint? Did Jewish Space Lazars create all the votes that were counted to give President Biden the victory?

    Hint? When liberals and conservatives work together to make an honest election it is not a cabal except to people trying to destroy American elections forever.

    Hint? When the President of the United States demands that a state's secretary of state "recalculate" the vote-count to make him a winner, that President is trying to overthrow elections.

  12. #30
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    In wake of Trump calls to state officials, Georgia prosecutors open criminal investigation into efforts to subvert election results

    By
    Amy Gardner
    Feb. 10, 2021 at 11:09 a.m. EST

    Add to list
    An Atlanta-area prosecutor has opened a criminal investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election result in Georgia in the wake of two calls then-President Donald Trump placed to state officials, urging them to overturn Joe Biden’s victory in the state.

    In a letter Wednesday to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, Fulton County District Attorney Fani T. Willis did not mention Trump by name, but stated that her office is examining a raft of potential criminal charges related to “attempts to influence” the administration of the 2020 election in the state.

    In early January, Trump pressured Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find” enough votes to reverse Joe Biden’s victory in the state during an hour-long phone call.

    Trump also called the top elections investigator on Raffensperger’s staff shortly before Christmas, asking the person to “find the fraud” and become a “national hero.”

    Willis wrote that her office will examine whether anyone illegally solicited election fraud, made false statements to state and local government officials, made threats or participated in a criminal conspiracy. Her letter was first reported by The New York Times.

    She asked officials to preserve all records related to to the 2020 election. She said the matter is “of high priority” and will go before a grand jury as soon as March.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...bc0_story.html

  13. #31
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    It's amusing to watch the posts change to match the narrative. Georgia couldn't have possibly been "stolen", because the Governor and SecState were Republicans.

    Now, liberals and conservatives work together to "make an honest election".

    It's a cabal, until it's pointed out that cabal has negative connotations; so now it's "not a cabal".
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  14. #32
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Same story in the NY Times:

    ATLANTA — Prosecutors in Fulton County have initiated a criminal investigation into former President Donald J. Trump’s attempts to overturn Georgia’s election results, including a phone call he made to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in which Mr. Trump pressured him to “find” enough votes to help him reverse his loss.

    On Wednesday, Fani Willis, the recently elected Democratic prosecutor in Fulton County, sent a letter to numerous officials in state government, including Mr. Raffensperger, requesting that they preserve documents related to “an investigation into attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia General Election.”

    While the letter does not mention Mr. Trump by name, it is related to his intervention in Georgia’s election, according to a state official with knowledge of the matter. A copy of the letter was obtained by The New York Times.

    “This investigation includes, but is not limited to, potential violations of Georgia law prohibiting the solicitation of election fraud, the making of false statements to state and local governmental bodies, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office and any involvement in violence or threats related to the election’s administration,” the letter states.
    This investigation is by the newly-elected Fulton County prosecutor, a Democrat.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/u...nm18iaklOiD1YU
    Meanwhile, the Republican government of Georgia is opening an administrative investigation:

    Georgia Officials Review Trump Phone Call as Scrutiny Intensifies
    The office of Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, has initiated a fact-finding inquiry into Donald Trump’s January phone call to Mr. Raffensperger pressuring him to “find” votes.

    By Richard Fausset and Danny Hakim
    Feb. 8, 2021
    ATLANTA — The office of Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, on Monday started an investigation into former President Donald J. Trump’s attempts to overturn the state’s election results, including a phone call he made to Mr. Raffensperger in which Mr. Trump pressured him to “find” enough votes to reverse his loss.

    Such inquiries are “fact-finding and administrative in nature,” the secretary’s office said, and are a routine step when complaints are received about electoral matters. Findings are typically brought before the Republican-controlled state board of elections, which decides whether to refer them for prosecution to the state attorney general or another agency.

    The move comes as Fani Willis, the Democratic district attorney of Fulton County, which encompasses much of Atlanta, is weighing whether to begin a criminal inquiry of her own. A spokesman for Ms. Willis declined to comment on Monday.

    The January call was one of several attempts Mr. Trump made to try to persuade top Republican officials in the state to uncover instances of voting fraud that might change the outcome, despite the insistence of voting officials that there was no widespread fraud to be found. He also called Gov. Brian Kemp in early December and pressured him to call a special legislative session to overturn his election loss. Later that month, Mr. Trump called a state investigator and pressed the official to “find the fraud,” according to those with knowledge of the call.

    “The Secretary of State’s office investigates complaints it receives,” Walter Jones, a spokesman for the office, said in a statement on Monday. “The investigations are fact-finding and administrative in nature. Any further legal efforts will be left to the Attorney General.”

    David Worley, the sole Democrat on the state elections board, said Monday that administrative inquiries by the secretary of state’s office could result in criminal charges.

    “Any investigation of a statutory violation is a potential criminal investigation depending on the statute involved,” he said, adding that in the case of Mr. Trump, “The complaint that was received involved a criminal violation.”

    Mr. Worley said that now that an inquiry had been started by the secretary of state’s office, he would not introduce a motion at Wednesday’s state board of election meeting, as he had originally planned to do, in an effort to refer the case to the Fulton County district attorney’s office.

    Not long after the call to Mr. Raffensperger became public, several complaints were filed. One came from John F. Banzhaf III, a George Washington University law professor.

    Former prosecutors said Mr. Trump’s calls might run afoul of at least three state laws. One is criminal solicitation to commit election fraud, which can be either a felony or a misdemeanor; as a felony, it is punishable by at least a year in prison. There is also a related conspiracy charge, which can be prosecuted either as a misdemeanor or a felony. A third law, a misdemeanor offense, bars “intentional interference” with another person’s “performance of election duties.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/08/u...pgtype=Article

  15. #33
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    When liberals and conservatives work together to make an honest election it is not a cabal except to people trying to destroy American elections forever.
    Welch,

    Did you forget: It's the cabal which proudly identified itself as a cabal. I don't know why it did, but it did.
    Called itself a conspiracy as well. Don't know why it did, but it did.
    Read it in Time magazine.

    You can't walk back from that now.

  16. #34
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    When liberals and conservatives work together to make an honest election it is not a cabal except to people trying to destroy American elections forever.
    Welch,

    Did you forget: It's the cabal which proudly identified itself as a cabal. I don't know why it did, but it did.
    Called itself a conspiracy as well. Don't know why it did, but it did.
    Read it in Time magazine.

    You can't walk back from that now.
    What??? Did you even bother to read? Of course, maybe your problem is understanding what you've read, so I'll explain it. Trump spent months before the election pretending that the ONLY way he could lose re-election would be if it was stolen from him. Poor baby. So you think it was, somehow, evil that Democrats and Republicans worked to make an honest election happen. How?

    OK, if you hate to read, watch the House Impeachment Managers make the case against Trump.

    - "No violence".

    - "It's too late for that. They don't listen without violence"

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...gtype=Homepage

  17. #35
    Senior Member welch's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Kazoolaw, here you are, from commentary about the impeachment trial:

    Lisa LererHost, On Politics newsletter
    Unreality is the key word, Sabrina. The internet and some right-wing outlets created a whole fake world of election fraud, deep state, and QAnon child abuse conspiracy theories and Trump seemed to both inhabit it and stoke it.

  18. #36
    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I saw this a couple of days ago. The thing that amuses me is the writer's near perfect demonstration of Doublethink: The ability to have two completely contradictory beliefs in one's mind and believe both of them to be true.

    A conspiracy took place, but people who think a conspiracy took place are conspiracy theorists...
    Not doublethink in the slightest, because they are two entirely different conspiracies*. They do not contradict each other. The Trump-supported one alleged a defrauding of the public by rigging a certain outcome, whereas this one was about empowering the public to decide the outcome for themselves. I can't believe I had to write that.

    *The author was clearly distorting the use of "conspiracy"--which by definition is harmful--for dramatic effect. I also can't believe I had to write that.
    Last edited by fountainpenkid; February 10th, 2021 at 05:14 PM.
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  19. #37
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    I don't think you understand the definition of "conspire" or "conspiracy".

    The author asserts that there was a conspiracy to defeat Trump. Trump supporters assert there was a conspiracy to defeat Trump. Same thing. The author thinks it was good and says it was an effort to "defend democracy" or whatever, and that changing election rules and laws outside the legislature - a clearly illegal act - is ok. Trump supporters know it was illegal and suspect it led to fraudulent mail-in ballot counts. The author thinks suppressing information and lying - like calling the Biden laptop "Russian disinformation" is morally ok. Liberals love to note how much Trump "lies". Hypocrisy, but to be expected.

    I can continue, but I can't believe I have to explain it.

    See also: Russell Conjugation. The entire Time piece (and your post) is an example of it.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  20. #38
    Senior Member fountainpenkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Conspiracy to defeat Trump? That is such a willful misreading of the article. Vacating this thread too. To others--don't feed the bear with this shit.
    Will
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  21. #39
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Typical. Can't back up your argument, talk smack and run away...
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  22. #40
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    Default Re: "a conspiracy unfolding...." "...a well-funded cabal....

    Quote Originally Posted by fountainpenkid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I saw this a couple of days ago. The thing that amuses me is the writer's near perfect demonstration of Doublethink: The ability to have two completely contradictory beliefs in one's mind and believe both of them to be true.

    A conspiracy took place, but people who think a conspiracy took place are conspiracy theorists...
    Not doublethink in the slightest, because they are two entirely different conspiracies*. They do not contradict each other. The Trump-supported one alleged a defrauding of the public by rigging a certain outcome, whereas this one was about empowering the public to decide the outcome for themselves. I can't believe I had to write that.

    *The author was clearly distorting the use of "conspiracy"--which by definition is harmful--for dramatic effect. I also can't believe I had to write that.
    Oops, the cabal takes credit for rigging the election.

    Appreciate your concession that conspiracies are, by definition, harmful. And then you add cabal acting together to create a secret history.

    I believe you wrote both things, and believe neither.


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