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Thread: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

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    Default Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    I've got this pen and unfortunately I don't know how to restore it. I assume it a leverless of some description.

    First off are these pens pull section or screw?

    I tried unscrewing it and I hear a crunchy noise I assume from the sac maybe pressure bar. Do force it past this point or is there a different method. I'd rather restore it myself then pay someone else to do it. Any guidance would be appreciated.

    DSC_3195.JPG

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    It's a curious filling system, and only works well with the right sac. Here's some great advice:

    https://goodwriterspens.com/2019/09/...wan-leverless/

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    eachan (February 6th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Thank you, mizgeorge. That saves me going through it all again on Deb's behalf. It's really quite a straightforward repair once you take on board that it is different from a lever fill or button fill pen.

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    I've gotten up to this stage.

    IMG_0213.JPG

    The pressure bar looks a bit sprung. Shall I replace it? Would a size appropriate button fill bar be suitable?

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    Yazeh (February 7th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Yes, you might have to do a bit of trimming to make it all fit though! Don't forget to use a nice big necked sac!

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Thanks for the picture. The above instructions don't apply to this pen which is the later version of the Leverless. It's known as a button bar Leverless.

    I quote from Marshall and Oldfield Pen Repair: "When the sac has been fitted, insert the pressure bar (with the button screwed in) and make sure it is located properly and responsive to button movement. It is important that the bar is exactly the right length - the top must be flush with the end of the barrel. Now screw the button out to the stop (about a half turn) and locate the end of the bar into the slot in the side of the section. Now screw the section on a bit, and then screw the button in a bit. Repeat until the button is all the way in and the section is all the way on."

    The only thing I would add is that a very large sac is not used with these pens. A 17 or 18 should fit well. The pressure bar you have should be fine once it is cleaned up and the rust removed.

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    da vinci (February 9th, 2021), Nethermark (February 8th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Apologies! I didn't even see the picture until this morning (tablet not loading properly). Eachan is, of course, completely right!!

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Apologies! I didn't even see the picture until this morning (tablet not loading properly). Eachan is, of course, completely right!!
    I was misled too, mizgeorge. Leverlesses can be quite confusing. As an aside, I find that later version quite difficult and I'm not fond of servicing them.

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by eachan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Apologies! I didn't even see the picture until this morning (tablet not loading properly). Eachan is, of course, completely right!!
    I was misled too, mizgeorge. Leverlesses can be quite confusing. As an aside, I find that later version quite difficult and I'm not fond of servicing them.
    I've only ever done one of the button bar variety, and found it much less straightforward. Wasn't that happy with the fill either, but that could have been me. It's a pen I've kept, because I like its nib, but I can see a bit of a switcharound in its future.

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    I constantly think that there must be a better way of servicing those pens but I fear there isn't. They must have worked splendidly before the first service, when they had been assembled by workers who did that all the time. It has got to the point with me that I'm very careful about buying the torpedo-shaped post-war Swans. Really don't want them if they're button-bar but I especially do if they're the paddle type. The only clue is if there is a photo with the turn-button fully screwed out. If you see the gleam of aluminium (aluminum) that's the pen to let someone else buy.

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    da vinci (February 9th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    I've got a Caligraph that I was having problems with a while back which I gave up on I may dust it out and ask for some guidance on that next.

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Calligraphs are usually button-bar fillers, the same as the pen above, so the same instructions will apply.

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    Nethermark (February 8th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Thank you very much for this information!

    I have recently bought a similar Swan Leverless, which also was my first Leverless. The pressure bar was missing, and I was under the impression that there was only one type of Leverless, so I was a bit at a loss at how to repair it, as I didn't have a pressure bar for a first type Leverless. Marshall and Oldfield do not mention this second type under the heading Leverless, but under 'Button bar', as I found out now. Now at least I can repair it!

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    da vinci (February 9th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Yes, you might have to do a bit of trimming to make it all fit though! Don't forget to use a nice big necked sac!
    Not for this pen, the necked sac is required for the fixed bar Leverless, not for this type with a button fill type pressure bar.
    These pens are a bit more awkward to re-assemble once re-sac'd. The sac well talc'd and with pressure bar in section slot careful threading back in of section, the turning button for the pressure bar depth has to be adjusted while doing so.
    So easy to twist the sac, or for the pressure bar to move out of the
    section slot, any resistance felt in screwing section back in, means something is out of place, make sure barrel and section threads are scrupulously clean.
    et
    Last edited by eckiethump; February 9th, 2021 at 02:43 AM. Reason: Sorry, I hafdn't seen teh previous posts, hopefully extra information will be useful.

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    I have only done a few of these, and a Calligraph or two. I would add that making sure that the pressure bar assy rotates freely in the cup prior to assembly can make a difference. Get rid of any burrs on end of bar, and make sure cup is clean of debris and corrosion. I smooth the end of the spring-bar end a bit, and put a little graphite in the cup for good measure. I then do a no-sack dry fit of spring/section to test resistance as things screw into place. I then cycle the filling knob a few times to check for smooth action. Once these pens are together, they can be pretty nice, but truly a lot of gimmickry to do what a push button had been doing pretty well for several decades. All this to use a sprung bar to carry on the "Leverless" name and to externally look like piston fillers, I guess.

    Bob

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by eckiethump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Yes, you might have to do a bit of trimming to make it all fit though! Don't forget to use a nice big necked sac!
    Not for this pen, the necked sac is required for the fixed bar Leverless, not for this type with a button fill type pressure bar.
    These pens are a bit more awkward to re-assemble once re-sac'd. The sac well talc'd and with pressure bar in section slot careful threading back in of section, the turning button for the pressure bar depth has to be adjusted while doing so.
    So easy to twist the sac, or for the pressure bar to move out of the
    section slot, any resistance felt in screwing section back in, means something is out of place, make sure barrel and section threads are scrupulously clean.
    et
    Can we replace the baby talc powder to normal chalk talc to talc a pen Sac??

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by eckiethump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Yes, you might have to do a bit of trimming to make it all fit though! Don't forget to use a nice big necked sac!
    Not for this pen, the necked sac is required for the fixed bar Leverless, not for this type with a button fill type pressure bar.
    These pens are a bit more awkward to re-assemble once re-sac'd. The sac well talc'd and with pressure bar in section slot careful threading back in of section, the turning button for the pressure bar depth has to be adjusted while doing so.
    So easy to twist the sac, or for the pressure bar to move out of the
    section slot, any resistance felt in screwing section back in, means something is out of place, make sure barrel and section threads are scrupulously clean.
    et
    Can we replace the baby talc powder to normal chalk talc to talc a pen Sac??
    I am not sure what you refer to as "chalk talc" Chalk and talc are two different things. Chalk can actually increase friction, where talc is used to reduce friction (and adhesion of the sac to barrel walls and levers). In billiards, talc goes on the shaft and guiding hand to smooth the stroke, while chalk goes on the tip to give some "grip". I got my talc powder from a local ceramic supplier. Pure and cheap. Few bucks for a 1 lb bag.


    Bob

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Seattleite View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by eckiethump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Yes, you might have to do a bit of trimming to make it all fit though! Don't forget to use a nice big necked sac!
    Not for this pen, the necked sac is required for the fixed bar Leverless, not for this type with a button fill type pressure bar.
    These pens are a bit more awkward to re-assemble once re-sac'd. The sac well talc'd and with pressure bar in section slot careful threading back in of section, the turning button for the pressure bar depth has to be adjusted while doing so.
    So easy to twist the sac, or for the pressure bar to move out of the
    section slot, any resistance felt in screwing section back in, means something is out of place, make sure barrel and section threads are scrupulously clean.
    et
    Can we replace the baby talc powder to normal chalk talc to talc a pen Sac??
    I am not sure what you refer to as "chalk talc" Chalk and talc are two different things. Chalk can actually increase friction, where talc is used to reduce friction (and adhesion of the sac to barrel walls and levers). In billiards, talc goes on the shaft and guiding hand to smooth the stroke, while chalk goes on the tip to give some "grip". I got my talc powder from a local ceramic supplier. Pure and cheap. Few bucks for a 1 lb bag.


    Bob
    I think there is only one "talcum" and that is the same formula that is available at the ceramic supplier. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talc ) it comes from a mineral and that is why called it chalk.
    Sorry for putting the question wrongly.
    I put it again
    Could we use the BABY TALCUM (Johnson & Johnson ---- which is again a formula of carcinogen contaminant) instead of the other talk? I even believe baby talc has corn flour mix to it.

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    Default Re: Swan Leaver -less Restoration Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Seattleite View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by eckiethump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mizgeorge View Post
    Yes, you might have to do a bit of trimming to make it all fit though! Don't forget to use a nice big necked sac!
    Not for this pen, the necked sac is required for the fixed bar Leverless, not for this type with a button fill type pressure bar.
    These pens are a bit more awkward to re-assemble once re-sac'd. The sac well talc'd and with pressure bar in section slot careful threading back in of section, the turning button for the pressure bar depth has to be adjusted while doing so.
    So easy to twist the sac, or for the pressure bar to move out of the
    section slot, any resistance felt in screwing section back in, means something is out of place, make sure barrel and section threads are scrupulously clean.
    et
    Can we replace the baby talc powder to normal chalk talc to talc a pen Sac??
    I am not sure what you refer to as "chalk talc" Chalk and talc are two different things. Chalk can actually increase friction, where talc is used to reduce friction (and adhesion of the sac to barrel walls and levers). In billiards, talc goes on the shaft and guiding hand to smooth the stroke, while chalk goes on the tip to give some "grip". I got my talc powder from a local ceramic supplier. Pure and cheap. Few bucks for a 1 lb bag.


    Bob
    I think there is only one "talcum" and that is the same formula that is available at the ceramic supplier. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talc ) it comes from a mineral and that is why called it chalk.
    Sorry for putting the question wrongly.
    I put it again
    Could we use the BABY TALCUM (Johnson & Johnson ---- which is again a formula of carcinogen contaminant) instead of the other talk? I even believe baby talc has corn flour mix to it.
    No, there are additives which can degrade latex sacs, pure talc is the ONLY talc that should be used. My supply is that used by scuba divers putting their suits on, where any person may have a reaction to the additives in perfume or baby talc.
    Back to the original question, If the pen is still complete, careful and patient reassembly after service sac'ing is possible. If you have to re-assemble and fit the original filling/operating mechanism, it requires bespoke tools is complicated, hit and miss, and not easy.
    eckiethump

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