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Thread: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

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    Default Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Somebody finally did the analysis, debunking the “courts have decided” myth


    The claim often repeated by the mainstream media, social-media content moderators, and fact-checkers that lawsuits filed by President Donald Trump’s campaign and Republicans were universally dismissed by the courts is untrue, according to a new analysis.

    The findings do not necessarily suggest that if the lawsuits had all been decided before Joe Biden was certified as the official winner of the presidential election by Congress on Jan. 7 that former President Trump would have won the hotly contested election.

    Nor would they necessarily have affected many of the Electoral College votes won by Biden in the disputed battleground states. Some of the legal victories took place in states like Colorado and Iowa where the popular vote counts for the respective winners of those states –Biden in Colorado and Trump in Iowa— were not close.

    Of the 22 cases that have been heard by the courts and decided on their merits, Trump and Republicans have prevailed in 15, according to citizen journalist John Droz Jr., a physicist and environmental advocate in Morehead City, N.C.

    This means Trump has won two-thirds of the cases fully adjudicated by the courts.


    Droz and a team of volunteers dug through court filings and legal minutiae to track down 81 lawsuits that were filed in connection with the Nov. 3, 2020 presidential election. The lawsuits were tracked on Droz’s publicly available spreadsheet that was current as of Feb. 6.

    Of the 81 cases, 11 were withdrawn or consolidated and 23 were dismissed for lack of standing or on other grounds. Both the cohort of 11 and of 23 should not be considered “wins or losses for either side,” Droz says, because they “have nothing to do with the merits of the case.”

    This leaves 47 cases. Of those 47, 22 have been finalized after the court heard arguments, considered evidence, and then issued a ruling.

    Of those 22, Trump or Republicans won 15 and lost 7, according to the analysis.

    This leaves 25 lawsuits that have yet to be finally disposed of.

    This means Trump and Republicans “have WON the majority of 2020 election cases fully heard, and then decided on the merits!” Droz said in a statement. “Is that what the mainstream media is reporting?”

    Among the legal victories for Republicans were:

    RNC v. Miller, in the Iowa courts, a lawsuit in which the Republican National Committee won an injunction over absentee ballot applications.

    RNC v. Gill, in the Iowa courts, in which the Trump campaign won an injunction preventing a county official from distributing and accepting signed forms containing preprinted information.

    Trump for President v. Boockvar, in the Pennsylvania courts, in which the Trump campaign was granted an injunction against the counting of mail-in and absentee ballots where voters were allowed to provide proof of identity days after Election Day.

    Droz noted that only three lawsuits addressed voting machine inaccuracies.

    “One of these was dismissed (due to jurisdiction), one was ruled against (although no discovery was granted), and one is still open (discovery was granted).”

    “The likely explanation for so few cases in these two areas is that legally proving fraud or voting machine manipulations are very time-consuming processes, that require substantial investigative work and documentation. There simply wasn’t enough time to do this prior to key points in the process (like the Electoral College).”

    “Our view is that the public needs to be much better educated regarding the election integrity issue—and having a more accurate understanding of the lawsuit component is a key part of that,” Droz wrote, explaining the purpose of his report.
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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Absentee ballot rules illegal: " thumb on the scale"
    Full opinion in article
    https://www.breitbart.com/2020-elect...itbart+News%29


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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    He lost and so did Kansas City, as did the Rays...get over it.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    ...get over it.
    If you can "get over" illegal conduct, regardless if it's your side or the other, you have not moral compass adn really should abstain from commenting on issues of law.

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    dneal (March 19th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    ...get over it.
    If you can "get over" illegal conduct, regardless if it's your side or the other, you have not moral compass adn really should abstain from commenting on issues of law.
    The article is illogical. Yes, it makes foolish Trump True-Believers feel a tiny bit happier, but the article is preposterous. When, for instance, Rudy Giuliani admitted that he had no evidence of fraud, and then his case was dismissed, that was a Trump loss on the contents of the case. That's just one case, although Giuliani made it famous.

    I read though the case a couple months ago, and no one claimed that the Trump campaign had shaken any of the vote counts.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    No comment on the full court opinion from Michigan? The opinion with the "thumb on the scale" analogy? The opinion that held the absentee ballot rules were illegal?

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    O, Kazooskins.

    (1) The original post does not provide any data the researchers claim to have found. Think back: whoever defines the buckets and puts the iterations into the buckets defines the results. We don't know that the researchers read every court case and we don't know how they decided which cases were decided on "procedural" grounds.

    (2) Their explanations of "merits" or content are silly. They mention the Pennsylvania case in which the elections officials were told to separate late-arriving mailed ballots. They did. Amounted to a couple thousand.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by welch View Post
    O, Kazooskins.

    (1) The original post does not provide any data the researchers claim to have found. Think back: whoever defines the buckets and puts the iterations into the buckets defines the results. We don't know that the researchers read every court case and we don't know how they decided which cases were decided on "procedural" grounds.

    (2) Their explanations of "merits" or content are silly. They mention the Pennsylvania case in which the elections officials were told to separate late-arriving mailed ballots. They did. Amounted to a couple thousand.
    Classic losing argument using misdirection: did YOU read Genetski vs Benson, the Michigan Court of Claims opinion contained in Scribd in the article? Oh, you did? You saw the Judge outline using COVID funds to send out absentee ballots to everyone? Are you going to continually ignore the Court's language [not mine]:

    …nowhere in this state’s election law has the Legislature indicated that signatures are to be presumed valid, nor did the Legislature require that signatures are to be accepted so long as there are any redeeming qualities in the application or return envelope as compared with the signature on file. Policy determinations like the one at issue — which places the thumb on the scale in favor of a signature’s validity — should be made pursuant to properly promulgated rules under the APA or by the Legislature.

    Focus, W, focus.


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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    "It's been decided by the courts" is a conclusive argument.

    "Trump prevailed in 2/3'ds of lawsuits where merits were considered" do not provide any data the researchers claim to have found.

    Yeah, no double standard there.
    Fighting is better than idleness
    -Kurdish proverb

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    "It's been decided by the courts" is a conclusive argument.

    "Trump prevailed in 2/3'ds of lawsuits where merits were considered" do not provide any data the researchers claim to have found.

    Yeah, no double standard there.
    How do you know that merits were considered in your article? What rule did they use?

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    "It's been decided by the courts" is a conclusive argument.

    "Trump prevailed in 2/3'ds of lawsuits where merits were considered" do not provide any data the researchers claim to have found.

    Yeah, no double standard there.
    Apparently not, but it depends on who you decide to believe.
    https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-lawsuits-whe/

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    "It's been decided by the courts" is a conclusive argument.

    "Trump prevailed in 2/3'ds of lawsuits where merits were considered" do not provide any data the researchers claim to have found.

    Yeah, no double standard there.
    Apparently not, but it depends on who you decide to believe.
    https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-lawsuits-whe/
    It depends on who repeats or changes the question much of the time:
    "Just because a case is dismissed on procedural grounds does not mean it wasn’t duly considered."
    But it does mean it wasn't considered on its merits.
    Regardless of the author, consider how the issue is stated, and whether the response "reponds" to a close, but not identical, issue.
    Also, you missed dneal's point: a conclusive assertion is enough for one side, yet the same type of reply is not. Goose meet gander.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    "It's been decided by the courts" is a conclusive argument.

    "Trump prevailed in 2/3'ds of lawsuits where merits were considered" do not provide any data the researchers claim to have found.

    Yeah, no double standard there.
    Apparently not, but it depends on who you decide to believe.
    https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...-lawsuits-whe/
    It depends on who repeats or changes the question much of the time:
    "Just because a case is dismissed on procedural grounds does not mean it wasn’t duly considered."
    But it does mean it wasn't considered on its merits.
    Regardless of the author, consider how the issue is stated, and whether the response "reponds" to a close, but not identical, issue.
    Also, you missed dneal's point: a conclusive assertion is enough for one side, yet the same type of reply is not. Goose meet gander.
    It's pointless to try to convince someone whose depth of analysis is "this link said so".

    Note how the Politifact piece (in line with their first summation) harps on the notion that there is no conclusive proof of fraud and Trump's successful cases don't mean Biden lost. It's a pseudo-argument. A red herring. Pointing out that a non-legislative entity does not constitutionally have the authority to change law, and winning that argument in court (apparently 2/3'rds of the time) isn't arguing there was fraud.

    "Fact checks" are now their own category of misinformation.
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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Guys, I'm not trying to convince anyone. Believe whatever conspiracy you choose to believe.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    A fanatic won't change their mind, and won't change the subject! Its over, it's done, its yesterdays news and the vast majority of Americans want move forward and more on!

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Brian View Post
    ... and more on!
    A misspelled self-own?
    But seriously folks, all the way from Boston to keep the thread alive.
    Thanks Brian.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Whether you like the new occupant or not, you have to admit the process appears to be run by someone that knows what they want to do and understands how to get the right people on the bus, or understands the concept of delegation.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Kazoolaw, Sorry, there I was assuming that I was entitled to express my personal opinion! Didn't realize you were really in charge of us all!

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Brian View Post
    Kazoolaw, Sorry, there I was assuming that I was entitled to express my personal opinion! Didn't realize you were really in charge of us all!
    And, having posted your opinion, we are free to comment on it, and even disagree with it.
    Once again, thanks for continuing to draw attention to the cabal.

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    Default Re: Trump Won Two-Thirds of Election Lawsuits Where Merits Considered

    Your very welcome! I am so glad to make you happy!

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