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Thread: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Although I have already shown this photograph in another topic, I think it should have its own thread for ease of finding and to serve as a reference.

    Pelikan Füllhalter 1929-1965 by C.M.Z, auf Flickr

    C.

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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Which of these accept the same nibs as each other? I'm guessing all the 100s are the same plus all the 400s?

    And it would be churlish not to say what a gorgeous photo and what a great collection.

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    That's correct.

    unique nib collar - Pelikan 1929
    same nib collar - Pelikan100 1931-44
    unique nib collar - Pelikan 100N
    same nib collar - Pelikan 140, 300, 400, 400N and 400NN (but Pelikan 140 nibs and feeder are shorter)

    Thank you.
    C.
    Last edited by christof; February 9th, 2021 at 04:06 AM.

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    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Lovely photo Christof. Do any of them have flexible nibs?

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Yes, a few have.

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    ...for example this:



    It's a quite uncommon Pelikan 100N nib, probably prewar and maybe of italian origin. The material is super thin and the nib quite flexible because of that.

    Usually, the prewar nibs are more flexible than the 1950's nibs. But only a few are really flexible in terms of Waterman's, Swan, Conklin etc...



    Most of the Pelikan nibs are just semi-flex.

    C.
    Last edited by christof; February 10th, 2021 at 12:43 AM.

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    Senior Member Yazeh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Thank you so much. I was considering a Pelikan but as I love super flex nibs, I will focus on other brands

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    Senior Member mizgeorge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    I keep coming back to look at this - they just make me happy.

    I know it's chronological, but I wish the 140 and 300 were before the 400s just for the look - in fact I'd probably flip the last five completely.

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    Smile Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Quote:
    “It's a quite uncommon Pelikan 100N nib, probably prewar and maybe of italian origin. ”
    According to this site:
    https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com...ibs/index.html

    your nib must have been of swiss origin. Exactly this logo is said to have been the Pelikan trademark in Switzerland back then.

    It looks wonderfully preserved and writes outstandingly. The most fascinating is that it can bear such long time lasting pressure control without occasionally behaving erratically (too wet, too dry).


    Hope this can help.

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Thank you for your comment. Of course I know Dominics site.
    (Maybe you noticed, I support his site with many of my photos...and in fact, the nib with the "P" logo which is shown there is my nib )

    But may I ask you, where exactly you found the informations about swiss origin and Pelikan trademark for Switzerland? I couldn't find it...
    Thanks again.

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    Smile Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Quote Originally Posted by christof View Post
    But may I ask you, where exactly you found the informations about swiss origin and Pelikan trademark for Switzerland? I couldn't find it...
    Thanks again.
    Thanks for your question. I found it here, under section “Special nib embossings” - hope I got it right:

    https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com...929/index.html

    I am just quoting and (hopefully correctly) interpreting what I found there. I have no personal experience and did no individual research in swiss made or marketed vintage Pelikan pens.
    Hope this can either help or become a reason for further research.
    Last edited by stoen; February 12th, 2021 at 01:37 AM.

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Thank you for the clarification.

    Actually, the english translation differ a littel bit of the original German text. As far as I understand it, the statement is the following:

    The meaning of a single "P" cannot be assigned more precisely, as well as nibs with a double border around the Pelikan lettering.
    The "P" was registered as a Swiss responsibility mark by Pelikan in December 1957.

    I understand the second sentence as a note or remark without any claim to probative value in context of the origin of these nibs. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not claiming one thing or the other, but I am sticking to the facts, which are described as follows; The meaning of a single "P" cannot be assigned more precisely

    I know of a few products that Pelikan produced in Switzerland, such as ink or Pelikanol. There is evidence of this. However, I am not aware of any production of nibs.

    From this point of view, your statement: "...your nib must have been of swiss origin. Exactly this logo is said to have been the Pelikan trademark in Switzerland back then." is more of an assumption, right?

    BTW: I find discussions like this interesting. Thank you.
    C.
    Last edited by christof; February 12th, 2021 at 02:31 AM.

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    Smile Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Quote Originally Posted by christof View Post
    However, I am not aware of any production of nibs.

    From this point of view, your statement: "...your nib must have been of swiss origin. Exactly this logo is said to have been the Pelikan trademark in Switzerland back then." is more of an assumption, right?

    BTW: I find discussions like this interesting. Thank you.
    C.
    Thank you, Christof. It’s more of an “educated guess”. Perhaps I should have written “of swiss market share” instead of “swiss origin” to be exact and more correct - thanks for reminding me of the power of words. AFAIK, the Pelikan nibs have been mostly officially forged in-house, at the Hannover Factory beyond 1934. (On another forum I’ve opened a thread about the origin of their nibs 1929-33).
    Pelikan has nevertheless been one of the companies who found its pen-market niche thanks to the ingenious engineering, modular design, high tollerance parts manufacturing and cleverly outsourcing some segments of the production back then, so I wouldn’t be that surprised at all to learn they might have also established a nib production facility in the “world hub of precious metals”, which was and still is Switzerland.

    As for the aforementioned nib, what evidence do you have of its possible italian origins? Is there a consistent evidence on the nib itself that may determine any particular Pelikan nib origin?

    I also like such discussions and find them good for sharing knowledge.
    Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by stoen; February 12th, 2021 at 08:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    ....so I wouldn’t be that surprised at all to learn they might have also established a nib production facility in the “world hub of precious metals”, which was and still is Switzerland.
    To me this would be more than surprising. I am doing research about pen industry in CH sind more than 10 years and hav not found the smallest hint of a Pelikan nib manufacture. Even pen manufactures were only few and small ones here in Switzerland.
    (Please do not forget that a gold refinery has nothing to do with a spring manufactory. The comparison is somewhat similar between a steel mill and a car factory)

    As for the aforementioned nib, what evidence do you have of its possible italian origins? Is there a consistent evidence on the nib itself that may determine any particular Pelikan nib origin?
    well... only three things:

    1. Extremely flexible nibs like these were rather atypical for the Swiss market at that time. One of the most important pen brand for the Swiss market (Soennecken) never offered nibs like that. Pelikan didn't as well, except this nib. But in Italy, flexible nibs were very sought after until the 1960's.

    2. The The indication of the gold content in thousandths (585) is rather typical for the Italian, not Swiss market.

    3. Tom Westerich is sharing my opinion.

    Well, that's all. No proof, I know...just a thought.
    C.
    Last edited by christof; February 12th, 2021 at 12:01 PM.

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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    Quote Originally Posted by christof View Post

    (Please do not forget that a gold refinery has nothing to do with a spring manufactory. The comparison is somewhat similar between a steel mill and a car factory)
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Of course I know what is a nib and how it works, I wrote this with a thad of humour. Yet if there ever was a country famous for continuosly setting world standards in high quality precision mechanics, or “spring manufactory”, as you may prefer calling it for the sake of semantics, what country was it if not the Swiss Confederation?
    (:
    1.
    To go back on topic, the facts you discovered about comparative market demand sound truly interesting. Great!

    2.
    I always thought the “585” (or “750” respectively) ppt embossing was adopted by Pelikan since 1937, and stayed so as standard on about any of their nibs for any national market.

    3.
    Tom Westerich is a very credible person, with great hands-on experience IMHO.

    Seems that many attempts to “reverse engineer” parts of the pre-WWII Pelikan history, even by most expert researchers, still often have to rely on indirect or circumstancial evidence.
    (:
    Last edited by stoen; February 12th, 2021 at 01:02 PM.

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    Senior Member christof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pelikan 1929 - 1965

    2.
    I always thought the “585” (or “750” respectively) ppt embossing was adopted by Pelikan since 1937, and stayed so as standard on about any of their nibs for any national market.
    Fact. Seems that my argument on this point is weak.
    C.

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