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Thread: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    [snip]

    Again, I may be mistaken, but I would like to see any actual proof or documentation that tracking on an item is enough to absolve the seller of any delivery responsibility.

    ETA: I did my due diligence with eBay and it does appear that proof of delivery, via tracking, will usually absolve seller of any further liability in the case that item is claimed to be not received. While I would still consider insuring parcels I send of any significant value, it appears tracking is an effective minimum option.

    TIL.
    ebay and PayPal don't mind whether a seller has insurance or not, but they do require a tracking number and proof of delivery from the seller in the event of a buyer claim for non-receipt.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by linkoiram View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    Seems like the way these things go is that in the case of the buyer electing for cheaper shipping uninsured it is their fault in most cases, sad that eBay and PayPal do not see it that way.
    As a buyer, until the pen has definitely been delivered to my possession, it remains the seller's responsibility. Insurance and tracking are there for that protection. It has nothing to do with what the buyer wants. If they ask for insurance/tracking free postage, then they are effectively saying the seller assumes ALL the risk, and I (the buyer) get a discount as well. That's a deal anyone should walk away from.
    This is not true. Per eBays guarantee policy, if the seller can prove that they in fact shipped the item then they are not responsible. A new policy (as of the past few months) states that any purchase over $700 must be insured because of this.
    The reason that eBay is saying that I canít appeal the buyers refund is because I apparently had only 3 days to enter the tracking info again after the buyer filed his dispute. If I donít provide the tracking info within those three days, then they charge me.

    HOWEVER!, I went all lawyer on their ass and studied their Money Back Guarantee Policy thoroughly and found what is most likely my silver bullet; within the policy, it states that if the package is not delivered according to the latest postage estimated delivery date, the buyer has up to 30 days after that estimated date to file a claim. The latest delivery date was November 23 2020 and he just filed this claim on February 2 2021. So after patronizing eBay on their own policy, my case has now been moved up to a higher ranking supervisor (his name is Mark) who said the money is now in some sort of escrow and I will receive it either once the postal service delivers it or it is returned. (This will most likely not happen)

    I went to the post office and talked to a supervisor there and they gave me some information, but the tracking seems to die once it gets to the post office over in Korea. So idk...


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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    This^^^^

    For what it's worth, if I didn't receive an item and contacted the seller to give him this information I would "get pissed" if the seller responded "well that's unfortunate. I can't do anything about it" I would immediately file a case of non-receipt with ebay. The ebay mantra is: You get what you paid for or your money back. Sellers ARE responsible for items lost in shipping. That's why they take out insurance.

    Firstly: When a buyer buys an item from a seller on ebay then it's up to the seller to ensure that he gets that item to the buyer. Whether the buyer wants insurance or not is irrelevant. The seller needs to ensure he protects himself in the way that ebay and PayPal prescribe. If it was an ebay item paid for by PayPal then it needs mailing out within a week and it needs a valid tracking number. Those are the requirements.
    Secondly: If the buyer makes a claim of non-receipt then ebay contacts you immediately with the case details and the time scale for your actions.
    If you mailed it out with a valid tracking number then you provide proof of delivery to ebay, via the case, within the prescribed period required.
    If you don't have a valid tracking number or you didn't take the required action within the prescribed time then you are unlikely to win the case.

    Ebay has had to decide the case on all of the details they have within the required time. Did you respond to the case with the valid tracking number confirming delivery within the timescale they gave you? If so then you need to email the CEO and tell him they got this wrong.
    If you have a valid tracking number confirming delivery but didn't respond to the case in time then you need to contact the CEO and tell him why you didn't provide that within the timescale and hope for the best.
    I can't see where ebay has "screwed you." They seem to have followed their standard practice.
    This is not true. As a seller on eBay Iím not responsible for shipping problems. Thatís one reason why eBay only allows sellers to ship using their certified shipping methods. Iíve been on the phone with eBay support all week and the buyer is not responsible for the product once they have shipped and proven shipment. So yea, thereís nothing I can do at that point that the buyer canít do themselves.


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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 724Seney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ASoultos View Post

    What is really annoying is that when you file a claim paypal doesn't even have the decency to assign it to a single employee to see it through to its resolution. 10 email exchanges with them 10 different guys signing on behalf of paypal.
    Agree 100%. For both eBay and PayPal it is very hard to reach someone and when you do it is always someone different and you have to begin from the beginning with the story. None of them ever look at any of the (supposed) documentation left following prior calls or e-mails. Although all of the employees do try to be helpful, language is a severe impediment far more often than it should be.......... Far too many of them make promises that do not get kept ("You are right, we will get this resolved for you") and never trust them when they tell you that you will get a call back.

    It is unclear to me whether the OP had a tracking number when he made the shipment. If not, that's just a stupid mistake.

    USPS International does include a tracking number for packages sent via their First Class international service (or whatever they call it). The problem is that if there was a tracking number, the shipment may have been tracked only as far as its point of departure from the USA. However, I have had instances where, for some countries, the package actually did get tracked once in the country to which it has been sent.

    Bottom line, if shipping via the country of origin's national postal service, if there is no tracking once the parcel leaves the country of origin, do not use that level of service; but if there is tracking once in the destination country then at least one will have proof of delivery.
    I did have a tracking number.


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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    [snip]

    Again, I may be mistaken, but I would like to see any actual proof or documentation that tracking on an item is enough to absolve the seller of any delivery responsibility.

    ETA: I did my due diligence with eBay and it does appear that proof of delivery, via tracking, will usually absolve seller of any further liability in the case that item is claimed to be not received. While I would still consider insuring parcels I send of any significant value, it appears tracking is an effective minimum option.

    TIL.
    This is true. And if you consider the price of things after insured and first class international shipping, most things on eBay become more expensive then buying them from certified retailers (obviously not in the case of buying a MB 149 for $400, but you get my point). Point being, as long as you(the seller) can prove you shipped the package with tracking number, then youíre covered. My main point is that I did that and eBay still debuted my account and wouldnít even allow me to appeal it. I did my due diligence, I did my homework on what I needed to do to be covered as a seller, and I was practical in thinking eBay would honor this policy. So the lesson isnít ďalways go way above and beyondĒ itís that I canít trust eBay to honor their own constitution


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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Not related to the whole shipping/tracking/insurance discussion, but I wanted to add that if you are ever selling on anything more than a casual basis, I have been told by multiple sources that you should set up a separate bank account to link to PayPal. After you received funds, you transfer the money. It is a lot harder for them to take money that is not there and opens up an entire separate avenue to fight charges.

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    ebay and PayPal don't mind whether a seller has insurance or not, but they do require a tracking number and proof of delivery from the seller in the event of a buyer claim for non-receipt.
    I probably wasn't clear: if I put insurance on something I am selling and sending off to someone else, I'm doing it for my OWN protection. I am covered no matter what else happens if the package is lost. Best of all would also require signiture for receipt of item.

    This is also why I have rarely sold pens, even though I really do need to lower the number. I have no need for the kind of headaches described in this thread, and am grateful that my previous transactions have been drama-free.
    Last edited by Jon Szanto; February 11th, 2021 at 03:49 PM.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 724Seney View Post
    Seriously??
    I couldn't disagree more......
    If you, the seller, have a tracking number and that number documents that the package was delivered to the address provided by the buyer you, the seller, are covered against a claim of non-delivery.
    Policies aside; If you didn't sign for something there is no actual proof that you're the one that got it. Not that it caused a lot of problems in the end but I've twice had a parcel delivered to a different address than mine, and yet the tracking shows "delivered".

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    From what i have read the seller is responsible until the item reaches the buyer to include insurance which i always do. I recently looked at that because insurance costs increased. Ebay nor paypal will do squat for you. Hate that happened. Serious scombags out there looking for ways to steal from others.

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    FPG Donor ♕ Chrissy's Avatar
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by spencerwilli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    This^^^^

    For what it's worth, if I didn't receive an item and contacted the seller to give him this information I would "get pissed" if the seller responded "well that's unfortunate. I can't do anything about it" I would immediately file a case of non-receipt with ebay. The ebay mantra is: You get what you paid for or your money back. Sellers ARE responsible for items lost in shipping. That's why they take out insurance.

    Firstly: When a buyer buys an item from a seller on ebay then it's up to the seller to ensure that he gets that item to the buyer. Whether the buyer wants insurance or not is irrelevant. The seller needs to ensure he protects himself in the way that ebay and PayPal prescribe. If it was an ebay item paid for by PayPal then it needs mailing out within a week and it needs a valid tracking number. Those are the requirements.
    Secondly: If the buyer makes a claim of non-receipt then ebay contacts you immediately with the case details and the time scale for your actions.
    If you mailed it out with a valid tracking number then you provide proof of delivery to ebay, via the case, within the prescribed period required.
    If you don't have a valid tracking number or you didn't take the required action within the prescribed time then you are unlikely to win the case.

    Ebay has had to decide the case on all of the details they have within the required time. Did you respond to the case with the valid tracking number confirming delivery within the timescale they gave you? If so then you need to email the CEO and tell him they got this wrong.
    If you have a valid tracking number confirming delivery but didn't respond to the case in time then you need to contact the CEO and tell him why you didn't provide that within the timescale and hope for the best.
    I can't see where ebay has "screwed you." They seem to have followed their standard practice.
    This is not true. As a seller on eBay Iím not responsible for shipping problems. Thatís one reason why eBay only allows sellers to ship using their certified shipping methods. Iíve been on the phone with eBay support all week and the buyer is not responsible for the product once they have shipped and proven shipment. So yea, thereís nothing I can do at that point that the buyer canít do themselves.


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    Sorry but you aren't correct. As the seller you are responsible for getting the item to the buyer or refunding his money if it is not received for whatever reason. In your above post you've mixed up buyer and seller. The buyer has no responsibility at all with shipment of the product. Check out ebay selling policies.
    One thing is for sure: the buyer should not have the item and the money. If you have a tracking number that proves delivery to the buyer's confirmed address then you have no problem. You should appeal the ebay decision even if you submitted the information late for some reason.
    Last edited by Chrissy; February 12th, 2021 at 02:20 AM.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!




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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!




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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
    Not related to the whole shipping/tracking/insurance discussion, but I wanted to add that if you are ever selling on anything more than a casual basis, I have been told by multiple sources that you should set up a separate bank account to link to PayPal. After you received funds, you transfer the money. It is a lot harder for them to take money that is not there and opens up an entire separate avenue to fight charges.
    This is precisely what I do with my paypal account.
    It is linked to an account that I transfer the EXACT amount needed into.
    Then after the transaction there's nothing to take until I deposit for the next transaction.

    Just like with any other "auto-debit" type of account...only keep in there exactly what's needed.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    This why we have a posted policy that says that we ship priority mail, or priority international with insurance and signature confirmation. Period. The only exception is for orders for "stuff" under $50. Signature confirmation became a hard and fast rule when the PO delivered to the wrong street address. When the carrier went back, the residents denied receiving the package, or any knowledge of anything being delivered. Carriers who have signed without permission, or for the "convenience" of the recipient, usually get roasted by said person at the local post office.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Because of the deadly virus of death, at least here in California where the lockdown is the new religion, NOBODY is getting signatures even when the shipper pays for signature confirmation. I just bought a new computer for $2500 that was shipped insured and with signature confirmation, and the delivery person (UPS) just left it on the porch without even ringing the doorbell. If a porch pirate had nabbed it, I would be SOL.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    At least half a million Americans have died from Covid ó and thatís only the ones we know about. 0 Americans died from shoe or underwear bombing , and yet decades later, people are religiously removing their shoes and going through machines that look under their clothes. Maybe fewer would have died from Covid if Americans had taken it as seriously.

    Anyway, Signature Confirmation has always been a joke in New York. Either they just give you the salmon card without attempting a delivery, forcing you to go to the post office, or they simply throw the parcel in with the rest and ignore that it needs a signature.

    My carrier once blew off the signature requirement and left a parcel containing an MB 149 with the rest of the mail for the building. He never scanned it delivered either, so i kept waiting for it, not expecting it to be delivered on a holiday. Meanwhile one of my neighbors made off with the parcel.

    Iíve had other sign-for parcels go AWOL. Sometimes i think the Signature Confirmation label is a steal-me sticker.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    You should come to my post office. They know me by name, I have a PO Box and they ask to see my drivers license when I sign for a package, which is every package I get with or without signature required.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    That, and one must never forget the hobbyist's maxim: He (or she) who dies with the most pens (ink/paper/model airplanes/fabric/whatever) wins!

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    Default SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by guyy View Post
    At least half a million Americans have died from Covid ó and thatís only the ones we know about. 0 Americans died from shoe or underwear bombing , and yet decades later, people are religiously removing their shoes and going through machines that look under their clothes. Maybe fewer would have died from Covid if Americans had taken it as seriously.

    Anyway, Signature Confirmation has always been a joke in New York. Either they just give you the salmon card without attempting a delivery, forcing you to go to the post office, or they simply throw the parcel in with the rest and ignore that it needs a signature.

    My carrier once blew off the signature requirement and left a parcel containing an MB 149 with the rest of the mail for the building. He never scanned it delivered either, so i kept waiting for it, not expecting it to be delivered on a holiday. Meanwhile one of my neighbors made off with the parcel.

    Iíve had other sign-for parcels go AWOL. Sometimes i think the Signature Confirmation label is a steal-me sticker.
    This doesnít make much sense...
    The reason we have security checks at airports and other major public venues is because the potential for one person to harm many people all at once. Examples like the Boston bombing, what happened in Vegas, Orlando, 9/11, etc show how vulnerable the public can be to the ill will of one person or a small few people. We have technologies that are easily accessible which, in the wrong hands, can be and are used against us. Maybe the incidence isnít as high as cancer rates, but maybe we have those security checkpoints to thank for that
    So yea, thereís plenty of instances when a security check could have saved many lives. And itís not like walking through a metal detector is any form of extreme invasion of privacy.

    I dont think using raw numbers makes for a very sound argument about these things. Theyíre very convoluted and complex. You mention COVID as an example; ďhalf a million people have diedĒ juxtaposed against 0 Americans dying from ďunderwear bombingĒ as if our fallen troops in the Middle East never had to deal with suicide bombers. Those were Americans werenít they the point is, I donít think using the raw numbers to try and justify these things is a good argument. For example, if youíre under the age of 50, youíre more like to die in a car crash than you are from the virus (this is a true fact, Iíll even post the epidemiological numbers). But saying that, like saying no one has died from underwear bombings, isnít giving the whole story.

    Just for those who are interested in how I came up with that statistic:

    The total number of Americans under 50 years of age who died in a car crash in 2018 is 21,545. (This data was gather from iihs.org)

    The total number of covid American deaths of people under 50 is 20,725 between January 2020 and January 2021. (This data was gathered from covid19.who.int)


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    Last edited by spencerwilli; February 24th, 2021 at 02:31 AM.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Iím not going to debate you on Covid here. My point was that the problems with signature confirmation were there before Covid.

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