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Thread: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

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    Default SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    I need some help

    So I got pretty screwed by eBay this week. In November I sold a MB 149 (I actually had it listed on here) to someone on eBay. He didn't want to pay for the insured shipping and asked specifically for USPS standard international. I thought nothing of it, however just this past week I got a notice from eBay saying that the buyer filed a claim because the pen never arrived. I reached out to him and said that's unfortunate, however I can't do anything about it. He got pissed and threw a fit and somehow managed to convince eBay to give him a refund and then they took the liberty to debit my paypal for $419...

    So my question is, does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get my money back? Sellers are not responsible for items lost in shipping, so how could they just take my money like that? Ive filed 3 appeals at this point and all have been denied because they say I uploaded the tracking information too late (which is bogus). To make things even more annoying, eBay doesnt have a customer contact phone number, you have to request them to call you and you get some shmuck on the phone. I cant even ask to speak to a supervisor.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    One time I had a package that was claimed to never arrive, and after the package was shown to be delivered ebay ruled in my favor. International shipping is a whole other affair, I hope the best of luck to you.

    I can somewhat commiserate with you, a couple of months ago I ordered a pfm on impulse (two in fact) that were way too good to be true, and to this day I still don't have my money back. Ebay will step in starting this weekend I think, although I'm almost certain with no tracking info those two orders will be refunded, but it still stings.

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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    The ONLY thing you can do is keep going back to eBay and ask for a different resolution, but this is late in the game. How much of all of this is documented? You would really have to prove that the seller requested NO insurance. Even if that were the case, if I was in this situation I would put insurance on the parcel at my expense to cover this kind of event.

    I wish you good luck, persistence, and patience. As to "I thought nothing of it..." in the future, do.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by spencerwilli View Post
    I need some help

    So I got pretty screwed by eBay this week. In November I sold a MB 149 (I actually had it listed on here) to someone on eBay. He didn't want to pay for the insured shipping and asked specifically for USPS standard international. I thought nothing of it, however just this past week I got a notice from eBay saying that the buyer filed a claim because the pen never arrived. I reached out to him and said that's unfortunate, however I can't do anything about it. He got pissed and threw a fit and somehow managed to convince eBay to give him a refund and then they took the liberty to debit my paypal for $419...

    So my question is, does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get my money back? Sellers are not responsible for items lost in shipping, so how could they just take my money like that? Ive filed 3 appeals at this point and all have been denied because they say I uploaded the tracking information too late (which is bogus). To make things even more annoying, eBay doesnt have a customer contact phone number, you have to request them to call you and you get some shmuck on the phone. I cant even ask to speak to a supervisor.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    I think what you mean to say is you got screwed by a disreputable eBay customer who knows how to manipulate the system to his/her benefit.

    I would query eBay to find out the customer's claim history and see if there is a pattern (I'm betting there is) and then challenge his/her claim. In the future use a service with tracking.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Pretty sure paypal is in the screwing as well.

    I had a similar situation with a buyer about a year ago, international registered mail (to the US from Greece in my case), I had everything documented and in a timely fashion, I even had emails from the buyer confirming he received his purchase. Paypal ruled in his favor regardless. What is really annoying is that when you file a claim paypal doesn't even have the decency to assign it to a single employee to see it through to its resolution. 10 email exchanges with them 10 different guys signing on behalf of paypal.

    Interestingly though, the fraudster came again on our website for a second purchase. I was really tempted to get his money and ship a nice box with an FU note in it!

    Decency prevailed though, we just declined his order.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    Seems like the way these things go is that in the case of the buyer electing for cheaper shipping uninsured it is their fault in most cases, sad that eBay and PayPal do not see it that way.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by linkoiram View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    Seems like the way these things go is that in the case of the buyer electing for cheaper shipping uninsured it is their fault in most cases, sad that eBay and PayPal do not see it that way.
    As a buyer, until the pen has definitely been delivered to my possession, it remains the seller's responsibility. Insurance and tracking are there for that protection. It has nothing to do with what the buyer wants. If they ask for insurance/tracking free postage, then they are effectively saying the seller assumes ALL the risk, and I (the buyer) get a discount as well. That's a deal anyone should walk away from.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Always use eBay Global Shipping. If the buyer never got the pen and is honest then blame uninsured shipping. Sucks that buyer agreed to a less reliable method and you got bit.

    Block the buyer in your account. If a buyer refuses to pay the global shipping fees just let eBay know the buyer failed to complete the transaction. Also donít go outside eBay messenger if you are concerned about honesty.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    This^^^^

    For what it's worth, if I didn't receive an item and contacted the seller to give him this information I would "get pissed" if the seller responded "well that's unfortunate. I can't do anything about it" I would immediately file a case of non-receipt with ebay. The ebay mantra is: You get what you paid for or your money back. Sellers ARE responsible for items lost in shipping. That's why they take out insurance.

    Firstly: When a buyer buys an item from a seller on ebay then it's up to the seller to ensure that he gets that item to the buyer. Whether the buyer wants insurance or not is irrelevant. The seller needs to ensure he protects himself in the way that ebay and PayPal prescribe. If it was an ebay item paid for by PayPal then it needs mailing out within a week and it needs a valid tracking number. Those are the requirements.
    Secondly: If the buyer makes a claim of non-receipt then ebay contacts you immediately with the case details and the time scale for your actions.
    If you mailed it out with a valid tracking number then you provide proof of delivery to ebay, via the case, within the prescribed period required.
    If you don't have a valid tracking number or you didn't take the required action within the prescribed time then you are unlikely to win the case.

    Ebay has had to decide the case on all of the details they have within the required time. Did you respond to the case with the valid tracking number confirming delivery within the timescale they gave you? If so then you need to email the CEO and tell him they got this wrong.
    If you have a valid tracking number confirming delivery but didn't respond to the case in time then you need to contact the CEO and tell him why you didn't provide that within the timescale and hope for the best.
    I can't see where ebay has "screwed you." They seem to have followed their standard practice.
    Last edited by Chrissy; February 11th, 2021 at 03:08 AM.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Consider this a relatively cheap life lesson. It is certainly unfortunate and painful but eBay did not screw you, ignorance was the problem. Next time, no insurance, no tracking, NO SALE!

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by linkoiram View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Insurance is to protect the seller, not the buyer. In waiving that protection, you assumed responsibility. A costly lesson to learn, no doubt, but I can't see how this is ebay or paypal's fault.
    Seems like the way these things go is that in the case of the buyer electing for cheaper shipping uninsured it is their fault in most cases, sad that eBay and PayPal do not see it that way.
    As a buyer, until the pen has definitely been delivered to my possession, it remains the seller's responsibility. Insurance and tracking are there for that protection. It has nothing to do with what the buyer wants. If they ask for insurance/tracking free postage, then they are effectively saying the seller assumes ALL the risk, and I (the buyer) get a discount as well. That's a deal anyone should walk away from.
    Exactly! It's called due diligence. That money has exchanged hands means very little. Traditionally, business transactions involving goods are not completed until the goods are in the hand of the buyer.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    According to Paypal, sellers are responsible in case of non-delivery. That being the case, insurance is for the seller, not the buyer. Before i ship overseas i ask myself whether iím willing to pay the cost of the item in case it disappears. If the answer is no, i insure the parcel.

    The alternative is to not use Paypal. Paypal sucks in many ways, but then, some buyers automatically consider me a scammer if i propose anything other than Paypal. I like face to face transactions. They come with their own set of limitations, risks and costs.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ASoultos View Post

    What is really annoying is that when you file a claim paypal doesn't even have the decency to assign it to a single employee to see it through to its resolution. 10 email exchanges with them 10 different guys signing on behalf of paypal.
    Agree 100%. For both eBay and PayPal it is very hard to reach someone and when you do it is always someone different and you have to begin from the beginning with the story. None of them ever look at any of the (supposed) documentation left following prior calls or e-mails. Although all of the employees do try to be helpful, language is a severe impediment far more often than it should be.......... Far too many of them make promises that do not get kept ("You are right, we will get this resolved for you") and never trust them when they tell you that you will get a call back.

    It is unclear to me whether the OP had a tracking number when he made the shipment. If not, that's just a stupid mistake.

    USPS International does include a tracking number for packages sent via their First Class international service (or whatever they call it). The problem is that if there was a tracking number, the shipment may have been tracked only as far as its point of departure from the USA. However, I have had instances where, for some countries, the package actually did get tracked once in the country to which it has been sent.

    Bottom line, if shipping via the country of origin's national postal service, if there is no tracking once the parcel leaves the country of origin, do not use that level of service; but if there is tracking once in the destination country then at least one will have proof of delivery.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 724Seney View Post

    It is unclear to me whether the OP had a tracking number when he made the shipment. If not, that's just a stupid mistake.

    USPS International does include a tracking number for packages sent via their First Class international service (or whatever they call it). The problem is that if there was a tracking number, the shipment may have been tracked only as far as its point of departure from the USA. However, I have had instances where, for some countries, the package actually did get tracked once in the country to which it has been sent.

    Bottom line, if shipping via the country of origin's national postal service, if there is no tracking once the parcel leaves the country of origin, do not use that level of service; but if there is tracking once in the destination country then at least one will have proof of delivery.
    I'm not sure which countries have full end to end tracking. I know that when USPS first class international is used for shipping to the UK it's fully tracked all the way to delivery.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrissy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 724Seney View Post

    It is unclear to me whether the OP had a tracking number when he made the shipment. If not, that's just a stupid mistake.

    USPS International does include a tracking number for packages sent via their First Class international service (or whatever they call it). The problem is that if there was a tracking number, the shipment may have been tracked only as far as its point of departure from the USA. However, I have had instances where, for some countries, the package actually did get tracked once in the country to which it has been sent.

    Bottom line, if shipping via the country of origin's national postal service, if there is no tracking once the parcel leaves the country of origin, do not use that level of service; but if there is tracking once in the destination country then at least one will have proof of delivery.
    I'm not sure which countries have full end to end tracking. I know that when USPS first class international is used for shipping to the UK it's fully tracked all the way to delivery.
    Agree! That has been my experience, too.
    It is unclear to what country the OP shipped his pen and whether he had a tracking number. If he did have a tracking number, then there is a chance that he can obtain proof of delivery.

    Might be interesting for us to try and pull together a list of which destination countries provide tracking information for USPS International once the parcel departs the USA.
    UK is one, for sure.
    I need to go back and check but I think that Italy and France provide it, too.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    OTOH, all tracking does is show where a package allegedly is. It is a handy guide to check progress, but it offers ZERO rewards to either end beyond that. If a package gets lost in transit, your tracking number will be of little comfort. The only thing that will, if you are concerned about the value of an article, is to put insurance on it. Barring any other guarantees (from any particular shipping agents), it is your only real option for worry-free transactions.
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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    OTOH, all tracking does is show where a package allegedly is. It is a handy guide to check progress, but it offers ZERO rewards to either end beyond that. If a package gets lost in transit, your tracking number will be of little comfort. The only thing that will, if you are concerned about the value of an article, is to put insurance on it. Barring any other guarantees (from any particular shipping agents), it is your only real option for worry-free transactions.
    Seriously??
    I couldn't disagree more......
    If you, the seller, have a tracking number and that number documents that the package was delivered to the address provided by the buyer you, the seller, are covered against a claim of non-delivery.

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    [snip]

    Again, I may be mistaken, but I would like to see any actual proof or documentation that tracking on an item is enough to absolve the seller of any delivery responsibility.

    ETA: I did my due diligence with eBay and it does appear that proof of delivery, via tracking, will usually absolve seller of any further liability in the case that item is claimed to be not received. While I would still consider insuring parcels I send of any significant value, it appears tracking is an effective minimum option.

    TIL.
    Last edited by Jon Szanto; February 11th, 2021 at 01:27 PM. Reason: I learned.
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    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

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    Default Re: SCREWED by eBay!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Again, I may be mistaken, but I would like to see any actual proof or documentation that tracking on an item is enough to absolve the seller of any delivery responsibility.
    Personal experience.

    I sold an item once that was listed on eBay and paid for through PayPal and the buyer later filed a claim that he had not received the item. I had the full documentation of tracking as well as insurance and provided that to PayPal and it was sufficient. The person then filed with his credit card and again I provided the tracking as well as all the email correspondence to the credit card company and again, they found in my favor. As a final insult the idiot filed a complaint and bad report with eBay and so I sent copies of all I had as well as the results from PayPal and the credit card company and again eBay found in my favor. So the person posted nasty comments about me on a couple forums.

    Folk are often difficult.

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