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Thread: Help in Identifying this Pen

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    Default Help in Identifying this Pen

    Hello all I made my first purchase of a lot of vintage pens. Within this lot of 8, I have this beautiful pen, but cannot make out the brand. The only marking is on the side of the cap with the inscription
    “extra”.

    Let me know if anyone here ( I’m sure there will be many of you that came across this model) could chime in and point me in the right direction. Thank you all in advance for your help.


    Best Regards,

    TBSDSpaniard







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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Some additional photos of the section and the ink window.





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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Nothing on the barrel, huh?

    I'm a bit at a loss, and the only thing I can toss out is that "Extra" is a common term with Italian pens, denoting a higher-tier pen. Photo #4, with the stag against a mountain, might be the best element to help in identity. I'll ask around...
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member silverlifter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    the stag against a mountain, might be the best element to help in identity. I'll ask around...
    Jon, I'm pretty sure that is the Bock logo.
    Vintage. Cursive italic. Iron gall.

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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Thank you inquiring, yes I have identified it as a bock nib. I will look into potential Italian manufacturers.

    It’s a beautiful celluloid.


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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlifter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    the stag against a mountain, might be the best element to help in identity. I'll ask around...
    Jon, I'm pretty sure that is the Bock logo.
    That was my thought but wasn’t able to confirm. Bock is the German equivalent of “buck”, so I believe it. Could also be a replacement nib.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    What is the filling system?

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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Piston

    Here are some images of the blind cap and turn knob



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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Just found this on FPN. Where a similar enquire in 2011 I don’t think lead anywhere.

    I’m going to reach out to that OP.

    https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/f...omment-2215302

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    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Being a piston filler eliminates what I was considering and also most likely all Italian makers. Looking at the clip, body, filling system and cap shape my next speculation is one of the products of the Reform family of pens. Reform in the 1930-1950s (and maybe longer) also sold complete pens to many other makers to be relabeled. The one really remaining question involves the nib. Your example has a Bock nib but Reform owned Degussa in the 1940s and so would most likely have had a Degussa nib rather than Bock. However nibs were often changed so that is not a major concern.

    If the maker was Reform though it doesn't help on identifying the brand since Reform pens very often ended up as some other brand.

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    Senior Member carlos.q's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    The one really remaining question involves the nib. Your example has a Bock nib but Reform owned Degussa in the 1940s and so would most likely have had a Degussa nib rather than Bock. However nibs were often changed so that is not a major concern.
    Most likely the Bock 14k is an upgrade or maybe the pen is a higher grade model. If you check out the photo in the FPN thread the nib is a "14k plated" nib.

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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Being a piston filler eliminates what I was considering and also most likely all Italian makers. Looking at the clip, body, filling system and cap shape my next speculation is one of the products of the Reform family of pens. Reform in the 1930-1950s (and maybe longer) also sold complete pens to many other makers to be relabeled. The one really remaining question involves the nib. Your example has a Bock nib but Reform owned Degussa in the 1940s and so would most likely have had a Degussa nib rather than Bock. However nibs were often changed so that is not a major concern.

    If the maker was Reform though it doesn't help on identifying the brand since Reform pens very often ended up as some other brand.
    Thank you Jar. The OP in the referenced FPN thread did get back to me. Unfortunately he was unable to identify the manufacturer, but he suspects it was an Italian brand.


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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by carlos.q View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    The one really remaining question involves the nib. Your example has a Bock nib but Reform owned Degussa in the 1940s and so would most likely have had a Degussa nib rather than Bock. However nibs were often changed so that is not a major concern.
    Most likely the Bock 14k is an upgrade or maybe the pen is a higher grade model. If you check out the photo in the FPN thread the nib is a "14k plated" nib.
    Yes Carlos.q you are right. There is also a second example in that thread with a Bock Nib. Thank you for pointing that out.


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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    This thread had piqued my curiosity because I've had a small, no-name pen for a couple of years, trying to decide about restoration. There are no markings on the pen at all, it is simply that I have seen Italian pens in this material - or very close - before. Like yours, I have a hunch that the nib is one someone popped in (poorly, at least as it came to me), though it now makes me consider looking at Senator pens of the 50s (unlikely). The trim is similar, though the two tassies have black plastic jewels instead of metal like the op. Also a piston filler with the HR knob as in OP's pen.

    If anyone has any ideas on *this* pen, let me know!


    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    This thread had piqued my curiosity because I've had a small, no-name pen for a couple of years, trying to decide about restoration. There are no markings on the pen at all, it is simply that I have seen Italian pens in this material - or very close - before. Like yours, I have a hunch that the nib is one someone popped in (poorly, at least as it came to me), though it now makes me consider looking at Senator pens of the 50s (unlikely). The trim is similar, though the two tassies have black plastic jewels instead of metal like the op. Also a piston filler with the HR knob as in OP's pen.

    If anyone has any ideas on *this* pen, let me know!


    What a beauty! How does it write? My piston is done have to look for replacement parts. I dipped it and she wrote beautifully.


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    Senior Member Jon Szanto's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Quote Originally Posted by TBSDSpaniard View Post
    What a beauty! How does it write? My piston is done have to look for replacement parts. I dipped it and she wrote beautifully.
    Oh, this one is still in a bag in my "Project Pens" box, awaiting the time when I am going to tackle it. I haven't been able to pull the section with just hand pressure, so I haven't been able to knock out the feed and reset the nib, which is not set well. It looks like it will write well enough when done, but this pen is also very petite, so not a regular writer. I got it mostly for the beautiful chatoyance of the celluloid, and I'll have to think hard about full restoration depending on how difficult the piston decides to be when I get around to it.
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen



    Thanks to Carola @FPN who brought this to my attention.

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    Ole Juul (March 10th, 2021)

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    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Hungary makes far more sense than Italy. Great info.

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    Senior Member penwash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    Congrats for figuring out the pen's origins.

    I think a link to this thread or a short write up about this pen would be beneficial for all of us (and future readers) to be included in this one:

    https://fpgeeks.com/forum/showthread...u-can-think-of
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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    Default Re: Help in Identifying this Pen

    I have a few German pens with Bock music nibs, which are certaionly original to the pens, so the idea that a manufacturer might place a Bock nib in a "no-name" is not unreasonable. Would the politics of the 50s - 60s have made a German nib original to a Hungarian pen unlikely? Also, the pen in the video uses a celluloid that is seen on some Czech - made Centropen models. As is often the case, where a no-name pen is made, where its components are made, and where it is marketed are difficult to verify. Nice pen of uncertain origin is nothing to be ashamed of, as the search continues.

    Bob

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