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Thread: Vaccine question

  1. #21
    Senior Member Cyril's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    [QUOTE= My conclusion is that it, and the other vaccines, are very, very safe and much less risky, especially for any group of population, than not getting the vaccine, particularly as more variants spread more widely.
    Europe is having another surge,
    The surges in the US often follow those in Europe.
    We'll see if we can vaccinated enough of the population to avoid that surge come this spring and summer.

    Why do people should take preventive unknown Chemicales (medicines ) to be safe from unknown, unproven existing, so called deadly, pandemic dis-eases ??
    This is is an utterly idiotic concept. This is from the book of CROWD CONDITIONING. Wrong education done by masses.

    People are being misinformed and it is amazing how it had being done by centuries.
    According to many specialised doctors on their profession of health and Quotes- LET THE FIRST MILLION IDIOTS GET PERILED BY BEING THE GUINEA PIGS by these " EXPERIMENTING INJECTABLES ' ( THEY DON'T EVEN NAME THEM AS VACCINE) YOU JUST BE AWAY FROM THEM FOR the time being. Time will show up what is the out come and the story of the " SURGE " is.

    Whatever happening in USA, It is of course another "SURGE' IN OUR CONTINENT OF Europe. This week-end mass protets followed in UK ( Burned down a Police Station in a county UK ),France , Germany etc. Pandemic Civil War is at the Door-step.
    These doctors specialised in Virology gives a hint what is pandemic Virus is when it happened in our the written history , and How we were educated and who is behind that.
    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGIzWjjkpNk&list=PLkY39DbS3XEK1UPR_Ib0jt_w 5STtVv_xI&index=171[/url]

    German Lawyer Sues The World Over Coronavirus: Can this happen to show the nakedness in CORONA HOAX? I am very interested in knowing the answer.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpOzHHJmy7g Watch this video will blow the mind.

    And again what Vaccines do as a business than a chemical to help the human heath.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HAyH8cegHQ

    And why the hell these injectables are known as " Experiment Injectables "
    Last edited by Cyril; March 22nd, 2021 at 11:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    ^^^ "so-called deadly pandemic"?

    that's deadly idiocy, right there

  3. #23
    Senior Member azkid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I can't wait to get the vaccine (well I can and I have to like many others).

    I kind of want the J&J so I don't have to hassle with the second shot but obviously I will take whatever I can get (Pfizer or Moderns).

    All of them significantly reduce severity of infection and that's the thing that has worried me most all along.

    Unfortunately, the wait lists are long in Colorado.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I've already had both my COVID shots (Moderna). I was in the Army, and I got all kinds of shots, some of them trials.

    My military service experience merely made me extremely blase about other vaccines. I would prefer to never get the injected Typhoid vaccine ever again, because it was the worst of what I've ever had, but if Typhoid was a real concern in my life, I'd put up with it. I still want Anthrax and Rabies shots. I'd also had a lot more vaccinations than usual because my family traveled internationally when I was a child. I've come to regard vaccinations as sort of a hobby--I call it my "Human Pincushion Collection" and consider my yellow shot record booklet analogous to the little notebooks used by trainspotters.

    I also worked in research doing molecular biology for 9 years. Part of that work involved making mRNA the same way they do it for the vaccine, except on a much smaller scale. I also used a transfection reagent, Lipofectamine, that is essentially the same as the lipid delivery system used in the vaccine. And yes, I know I got that stuff on my exposed skin from time to time. I'm definitely familiar with and not afraid of the technology involved.

    My main reason for getting the COVID vaccine was that I knew it could be worse than influenza. I've had influenza more than once, sometimes because the vaccine wasn't a good match to the circulating strain(s), and sometimes because it was before the era of widespread influenza vaccination. My tangles with influenza have been pretty bad, and I'll do almost anything to avoid it. So, if COVID has the potential to be worse than influenza, the only question was how many people would I knock over in my enthusiasm to be vaccinated. I want no part of feeling as ill as or worse than influenza, not now, not ever.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    My wife and I had the AZ vaccine. I was worried after all the 'hipe' on AZ's side effects. Not being able to choose I accepted it. Have we been lucky ? Probably. Side effects ? 3 days after my arm is still sore. The day after I felt completely in pieces. Took paracetamol to feel better and it worked and so did my wife. Secon shot in June. The freely available amount of misinformation today is massive. Anyone can say what they want and there is no prosecution for this. All in all you do what you think is best for you.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I would prefer to never get the injected Typhoid vaccine ever again...
    You can say that again. I've had it twice. I'm just going to assume I'm good for typhoid until my expiration date.
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    My wife and I had the AZ vaccine. I was worried after all the 'hipe' on AZ's side effects. Not being able to choose I accepted it. Have we been lucky ? Probably. Side effects ? 3 days after my arm is still sore. The day after I felt completely in pieces. Took paracetamol to feel better and it worked and so did my wife. Secon shot in June. The freely available amount of misinformation today is massive. Anyone can say what they want and there is no prosecution for this. All in all you do what you think is best for you.
    You can't judge a vaccine on a sample size of two - you and your wife. Although AZ vaccine is for sure much safer than some news headlines would lead you to believe, not everyone will have the same effects after the shot. There are definitely 2-3 per million of people with blood clots issues, especially younger people.

    I don't think you were lucky. Chances of having severe issues after the shot are extremely small. It's the other way around - you're unlucky if you get them.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    My wife and I had the AZ vaccine. I was worried after all the 'hipe' on AZ's side effects. Not being able to choose I accepted it. Have we been lucky ? Probably. Side effects ? 3 days after my arm is still sore. The day after I felt completely in pieces. Took paracetamol to feel better and it worked and so did my wife. Secon shot in June. The freely available amount of misinformation today is massive. Anyone can say what they want and there is no prosecution for this. All in all you do what you think is best for you.
    You can't judge a vaccine on a sample size of two - you and your wife. Although AZ vaccine is for sure much safer than some news headlines would lead you to believe, not everyone will have the same effects after the shot. There are definitely 2-3 per million of people with blood clots issues, especially younger people.

    I don't think you were lucky. Chances of having severe issues after the shot are extremely small. It's the other way around - you're unlucky if you get them.
    I don't think that it is clinically correct to call these rare occurrences "effects" after the shot. That word suggests causation, which has not been determined, particularly because the rates are so low (not statistically different from the general population, according to reports).

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I had a brutal chills-attack the night after getting my second shot. After shivering under extra blankets for about an hour, I took about three Alleve (Naproxen Sodium), and dropped off to sleep. Felt fine the next day, although a little sluggish.

    Atlantic Magazine explains:
    Side effects are a natural part of the vaccination process, as my colleague Sarah Zhang has written. Not everyone will experience them. But the two COVID-19 vaccines cleared for emergency use in the United States, made by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, already have reputations for raising the hackles of the immune system: In both companies’ clinical trials, at least a third of the volunteers ended up with symptoms such as headaches and fatigue; fevers like my husband’s were less common.

    Dose No. 2 is more likely to pack a punch—in large part because the effects of the second shot build iteratively on the first. My husband, who’s a neurologist at Yale New Haven Hospital, is one of many who had a worse experience with his second shot than his first.

    But much like any other learning process, in this one repetition is key. When hit with the second injection, the immune system recognizes the onslaught, and starts to take it even more seriously. The body’s encore act, uncomfortable though it might be, is evidence that the immune system is solidifying its defenses against the virus.

    “By the second vaccine, it’s already amped up and ready to go,” Jasmine Marcelin, an infectious-disease physician at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, told me. Fortunately, side effects resolve quickly, whereas COVID-19 can bring on debilitating, months-long symptoms and has killed more than 2 million people.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ffects/617892/

    As we have read, the risk of blood clots in people who receive Astra Zenica is a little lower than people in general.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    When I was 32 I contracted a form of infectious arthritis that left permanant articular damage. I finally got over it after 6 month. My primary care physician said he suspected it was from influenza, but not cause was ever determined. I've got a flu vaccine since.

    In 2015 I was bitten by a tick, had the classic bulleye rash. Had night sweats, changes in taste, fatique, and chills for two years. And, never had a positive diagnosis of Rocky Mtn or Lyme disease.

    There are people who have contracted COVID-19 who have had double lung transplant, prolonged and multiple bout of pneumonia, and other horrible symptoms, beside death.

    I think was all have to determine what is best of ourselves. Personally, I do not want anymore months or years of symptoms from an infection.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    My wife and I had the AZ vaccine. I was worried after all the 'hipe' on AZ's side effects. Not being able to choose I accepted it. Have we been lucky ? Probably. Side effects ? 3 days after my arm is still sore. The day after I felt completely in pieces. Took paracetamol to feel better and it worked and so did my wife. Secon shot in June. The freely available amount of misinformation today is massive. Anyone can say what they want and there is no prosecution for this. All in all you do what you think is best for you.
    You can't judge a vaccine on a sample size of two - you and your wife. Although AZ vaccine is for sure much safer than some news headlines would lead you to believe, not everyone will have the same effects after the shot. There are definitely 2-3 per million of people with blood clots issues, especially younger people.

    I don't think you were lucky. Chances of having severe issues after the shot are extremely small. It's the other way around - you're unlucky if you get them.
    I don't think that it is clinically correct to call these rare occurrences "effects" after the shot. That word suggests causation, which has not been determined, particularly because the rates are so low (not statistically different from the general population, according to reports).
    False. Germany and Norway have proved why, how and when they happen and also what to look out for and how to circumvent it.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/scienti...ne-11616169108

    If you don't think WSJ is a credible source you can find it in many other news outlets.

    I'm not debating against vaccines. I do want to be factual and not pull in either direction.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    My wife and I had the AZ vaccine. I was worried after all the 'hipe' on AZ's side effects. Not being able to choose I accepted it. Have we been lucky ? Probably. Side effects ? 3 days after my arm is still sore. The day after I felt completely in pieces. Took paracetamol to feel better and it worked and so did my wife. Secon shot in June. The freely available amount of misinformation today is massive. Anyone can say what they want and there is no prosecution for this. All in all you do what you think is best for you.
    You can't judge a vaccine on a sample size of two - you and your wife. Although AZ vaccine is for sure much safer than some news headlines would lead you to believe, not everyone will have the same effects after the shot. There are definitely 2-3 per million of people with blood clots issues, especially younger people.

    I don't think you were lucky. Chances of having severe issues after the shot are extremely small. It's the other way around - you're unlucky if you get them.
    I don't think that it is clinically correct to call these rare occurrences "effects" after the shot. That word suggests causation, which has not been determined, particularly because the rates are so low (not statistically different from the general population, according to reports).
    False. Germany and Norway have proved why, how and when they happen and also what to look out for and how to circumvent it.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/scienti...ne-11616169108

    If you don't think WSJ is a credible source you can find it in many other news outlets.

    I'm not debating against vaccines. I do want to be factual and not pull in either direction.
    Excellent. So I assume that you noted that the article states that the researchers say that there "could be" a linkage, however rare.

    That's different from my point about calling a blood clot an "effect". You left out all the qualification and limitations of the speculations of the research results.

    The WSJ headline is bullshit. The article (I could only read three paragraphs before I hit the pay wall) appears not to support the sensational hype of the title.

    If you could paste the whole article here, I could read it further.

    And yes, I consider the WSJ a credible publication. But that has nothing to do with what I think of headlines and their fair representation of what the reporters state in their actual writing.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    https://m.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-germ...ger/a-56925550

    They certainly did find what triggers it. If you're further interested you can search up more data yourself.

    Yes, it hasn't been published in a peer reviewed publishing yet, but discounting it as not real because of that is very dishonest, especially considering time constraints.

    There is no need to treat vaccines as a religion. It's not yet another us vs them topic. Vaccines absolutely have side effects and it's good we know about them, so we can make an informed decision.

    All in all, covid vaccines have been super successful in being safe and effective.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Of course vaccines have side effects. No one here has denied that. That would be silly. I don't know why you write some of the things that you do. Also, no one here is being "dishonest" about discrediting the studies about lack of peer review. I sure didn't say a single word about that.

    And who is treating vaccines as a "religion"? What are you talking about?

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    https://m.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-germ...ger/a-56925550

    They certainly did find what triggers it...
    Not in the article you quote here. That article has nothing. I clicked on one of the hyperlinks 8n the article that looked promising and saw this:

    >>>Berlit, who teaches at the University of Duisburg-Essen, also has a hard time with the authorities' decision. "At the moment, from a purely statistical point of view, there are more arguments against a connection than for a connection."<<<

    So Adhoc, this is my whole point, and nothing more: that the AZ vax "causes" thrombosis or has the "effect" of causing thrombosis has not yet been determined in any definitive way. A mechanism has been suggested for how it "could" cause thrombosis, but this is not saying the same thing. Even the one "expert" quoted in the article linked by the one you posted states that the suggestion of "linkage" is not statistically supported.

    I am not stating that the AZ vax could never have this effect, nor am I stating that it does not. I am only stating that we are in the "maybe" or "might" or "could" stage. In other words, still too early, still too speculative, and not at all definitive (and still rare incidence rate). But "incidence" is not "causation".

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I don't understand, are you not seeing the same article as I am? They found the thrombosis trigger, they know why it happens, and how to treat it.

    "Researchers at the Greifswald teaching hospital in northern Germany said on Friday that they had discovered the cause of the unusual blood clotting found in some recipients of the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, public broadcaster Norddeutscher Rundfunk (NDR) reported.
    The investigation showed how the vaccine caused rare thrombosis in the brain in a small number of patients.
    The discovery means that targeted treatment can be offered to those who suffer similar clotting, using a very common medication."

    The good news being that a) it's extremely rare (2-3 per million) and b) that it can be treated with off the shelf common meds.
    Last edited by adhoc; March 27th, 2021 at 04:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    No, I saw that. The article says nothing more, nor does it reference a paper, a report, any data, nor the mechanism referred to. I actually don't trust that summary of what the researchers "found." There is no way that the researchers found how that thrombosis was caused in those actual patients. The thrombosis could have been the result of several other natural causes, all which contribute to an incidence rate equal to that of the AZ recipient pool.

    That DW article, I suspect, is errant in its summary because it elaborates not at all and does not interview any of the researchers. So, like I said, I followed their link to get some actual data or language from any report and got nothing, except the "expert" whom I quoted above, who said to that linkage was not statistically supported.

    Again, this is all about "could" and "possibly." We are not even to "probably" yet.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Every single news outlet in Europe reported on this and you dismiss it and refuse to look it up yourself. Whatever I present, you will find some reason to dismiss it. This is religious-like following I mentioned earlier. You're exactly the same as antivaxers. Nothing that even remotely challenges your religions exists. I'm out, good luck.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Well, you can post a link to the study. Or you can go away.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I have found this, from the EU report on AZ (updated 26 March 2021...yesterday)

    >>>"Thrombocytopenia and coagulation disorders
    :

    A combination of thrombosis and thrombocytopenia, in some cases accompanied by bleeding, has
    been observed very rarely following vaccination with Vaxzevria. This includes severe cases presenting
    as venous thrombosis, including unusual sites such as cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, mesenteric
    vein thrombosis, as well as arterial thrombosis, concomitant with thrombocytopenia. The majority of
    these cases occurred within the first seven to fourteen days following vaccination and occurred in women under 55 years of age, however this may reflect the increased use of the vaccine in this population. Some cases had a fatal outcome."<<<

    from a link at the bottom of this page: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicin...ne-astrazeneca

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