Vaccine question

[TSherbs]

We wish her well, Chuck, and her family.

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[adhoc]

No mask mandates and children back in school. My grand daughter tested positive this AM. Fortunately symptoms are low grade fever and headache. Looking forward to when 12 and under can receive the vaccine.

I hope for the best for your family!

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Hope all goes well, Chuck.

Here in New Zealand the government has just announced that if any cases of the delta variant are discovered we will go into an immediate total lockdown. This thing ain't over but I sure wish it was.

[Chuck Naill]

All appears to be well with her. Thank you to all for your well wishes . Just a very sore throat.

[HerrFlik]

@Chuck - glad to hear she is doing ok and that she recovers fully soon.

To answer the main questions on the thread. I got the vaccine because I saw what it did to someone I work with. He went into intensive care for 4 months initially in a coma and it has taken almost 9 months for him to be completely rehabilitated (physiotherapy to walk again, breathing exercises because it killed his lung function to the point he could not do one flight of stares or speak without running out of breath etc, etc).

I do have worries about side effects long term. My family have had bad reactions to the different 'brands' of vaccine which almost put me off getting it (including a rush to hospital). I have suffered some really nasty side effects and still have some lethargy which is just not going away like I need it to. It bothers me but seeing what can happen without something to prevent or mitigate the effects of full blown COVID its a small price to pay to have my main health intact.

I do have a concern that the virus became opportunity that handed the powers that be of all persuasions an almost free ticket to assume more control than would have normally been allowed. And I genuinely don't believe they want to give that up.

[TSherbs]

@Chuck - glad to hear she is doing ok and that she recovers fully soon.

To answer the main questions on the thread. I got the vaccine because I saw what it did to someone I work with. He went into intensive care for 4 months initially in a coma and it has taken almost 9 months for him to be completely rehabilitated (physiotherapy to walk again, breathing exercises because it killed his lung function to the point he could not do one flight of stares or speak without running out of breath etc, etc).

I do have worries about side effects long term. My family have had bad reactions to the different 'brands' of vaccine which almost put me off getting it (including a rush to hospital). I have suffered some really nasty side effects and still have some lethargy which is just not going away like I need it to. It bothers me but seeing what can happen without something to prevent or mitigate the effects of full blown COVID its a small price to pay to have my main health intact.

I do have a concern that the virus became opportunity that handed the powers that be of all persuasions an almost free ticket to assume more control than would have normally been allowed. And I genuinely don't believe they want to give that up.

I hope that you and your close ones are well, and stay that way.

I don't think that your worries about "control" are justified, however. I don't know where you live, but here in the US children have been required for decades to have certain vaccinations in order to attend public schools (...in several states, but not all. Here in the US we have many laws that are different in each state). The requirement has been for public health and the *freedom from* illness and suffering, to themselves and to others, that mass vaccination brings to a population, both local and national. Vaccination acceptance increases the *freedom* to mingle, travel, and live a life free of the burden of both pandemic and acute illness.

I'm not sure what other "control" that you could be referring to. Perhaps you might explain.

[Chuck Naill]

Perhaps the "control" is to make people stay away from each other, prevent families from being with their dying, to force mask wearing, and now to get a vaccine.

Someone told me once that it was constitutional to require seat belts because it protected the US citizen. It also prevented someone from becoming a projectile to kill another. I am sure is language to justify somewhere, but I have not done the research.

I will say the school where my grand daughter attends has decided after two weeks to require masks. I find it unthinkable that anyone would not do everything possible to protect a child who is not cleared to receive a vaccine while at the same time requireing a yearly flu vaccine and a record for all childhood vaccines.

For me the pandemic has demonstrated just how susceptible we are to what we hear and choose to believe. If anything, we should strive in some way to guard ourselves and only believe the truth while yet not allowing ourselves to become angry and bitter when others refuse to do the same. Not that we have to all agree. It is just that to be guilty of repeating information we have not yet vetted is a sin, or should be.

[TSherbs]

...Not that we have to all agree. It is just that to be guilty of repeating information we have not yet vetted is a sin, or should be.

But there goes all chat during darts and beer.



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[Chuck Naill]

Would to God that it was just a “chat”.😞

[Chuck Naill]

US citizens are, in some places, ignoring the politicians and wearing masks on their own. I sure am and I am noticing this time that some of us are probably thinking if you have a problem with masks, it's your problem not ours. It is time to end this pandemic one way or another. Perhaps the pandemic will prove Darwin's idea of Natural Selection correct.

[kazoolaw]

Here in New Zealand the government has just announced that if any cases of the delta variant are discovered we will go into an immediate total lockdown. This thing ain't over but I sure wish it was.

I am so sorry, but join your wish for it to be over.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

Sorry for what? New Zealand has been a world leader in response to the pandemic, as can be seen from the statistics. We do what is necessary to contain and eliminate the threat, and mostly this has been a national movement. We also have the advantage of being geographically isolated and with a small (5 million) population - lucky us. As I see it (opinion inbound) the US (generalised) has become so preoccupied with the concept of personal freedom that far too many have lost sight of societal responsibility and obligation. We get that a bit too, but it creates far less of a problem here.

On the other hand, our vaccine rollout has been very slow compared to other countries. In part, this was a supply issue, but overall the plan was not optimal. We can argue that slow rollout is less critical as we have no community cases, but that would be just an example of spin. It is better to get majorly vaccinated as quickly as possible.

If anyone is in any doubt, I am and have always been fully behind mandatory vaccinations that can ensure the health and safety of society. In a sense, the anti-vax people are a public health risk in their own right.

[kazoolaw]

I am sorry an entire country could be shut down by a single case. Is there a repository for NZ statistics on all flus?

I am woefully ignorant about NZ in general, and how its government has handled COVID thus far. Apparently it has not squandered its credibility as has happened here. From Kamala Harris saying she wouldn't trust any vaccine initiated by Trump, to come to NYC and party, to flip-flops on masks/no masks, to putting COVID patients into nursing home while hospitals were empty, to amazing tricks with statistics, to shutting down gatherings but having 60th birthday parties with unmasked guests, and the echos of the Tuskegee experiment have created varying levels of distrust. America has a long history of conspiracy theories, which this plays into.

Hopefully you won't lock down and, if you do, it's not the Masque of the Red Death.

Be well.

[TSherbs]

If anyone is in any doubt, I am and have always been fully behind mandatory vaccinations that can ensure the health and safety of society. In a sense, the anti-vax people are a public health risk in their own right.

word


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[Empty_of_Clouds]

And just like that we are into Alert Level 4: total lockdown. Three days down here on the South Island, and seven days in the Auckland area (North Island). Eek!

[TSherbs]

And just like that we are into Alert Level 4: total lockdown. Three days down here on the South Island, and seven days in the Auckland area (North Island). Eek!

Good luck. Stay safe, and best wishes!

[Cookedj]

If you get a chance to read The Great Influenza by John Barry. Very enlightening to see what really went on during the Flu Pandemic of 1918 and how governments policies and refusal to listen helped the Flu spread.

[Chuck Naill]

Booster doses for those who received their first dose will be avaialble in September. I plan on getting a booster because my first dose was 1/6/21. Yes, the same day...LOL!!

[TSherbs]

I am sure that I will get one, too, since I am working in a school with hundreds of unvaccinated young persons.

[adhoc]

I have to say I am not sure I'll be getting a booster shot. I read (official US CDC reports) the vaccines don't do much about the spread of the virus nor about your chances of contracting it, only saving you from a trip to the hospital, and even that's debatable for at risk people. We're (my family) still quite young, young enough to not be in a risky age group yet at least and I'm not seeing what exactly the vaccines do for me. We also had COVID before the vaccines were available and while it wasn't really great, it wasn't that bad either.

The report was pretty damning, citing numbers from Israel, which currently holds a lot of precious data regarding covid immunization. I've also read that the efficacy of the vaccines isn't entirely unexpected, as they fall anyway above where a typical coronavirus vaccine would. I guess I just hoped it would at least dampen the spread and that I could protect people around me by getting vaccinated, but that doesn't seem to be the case. A shame, really.

We're also debating whether we should start living our lives again. Our kids doctor advised us to do so. Meaning the kid goes back to the kindergarden, I'm finally going back to the gym (used to go 4-5 times a week, haven't been in 2 years now and I'm missing it so much it's driving me crazy). Have another kid on the way due in January, we can't keep locking ourselves up like this indefinitely, and it looks like this thing isn't going away, it looks like it will be with us for years, if not decades.

We're still on the fence about it and a week ago we were sure we're going back into isolated and protected life again, as cases have been exploding again here, but our doctor told us we probably can't evade delta variant either way and that my 2 year olds social life is more important than the risk of getting covid in the kindergarten. And if she's going to be in close contact with 14 kids, then I can risk the not-so-close contact with 2 people at the gym.

I don't know. It's honestly a difficult time to be in charge of making decisions for others (my family) at the moment. Naturally, I want the best for them, but I don't think anyone truly knows what the best decision in this case is. Weird times. Not to come off wrong however, I am happy to take this responsibility regardless, as I pride myself on being accountable and responsible, and I shudder to think if I were in this situation as a kid with my drunkard, useless, excuse of a man, father in charge.

I'm sorry for going a bit off of the tangent here (is this the right way to use this expression?), but I'd be curious what others, most of you more experienced with life than me, think. Is there an aspect I haven't considered?