Vaccine question

[TSherbs]

Adhoc, I am not engaging in a debate on this. I simply posted an update. You can argue with someone else about it.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chuck Naill]

Same here.

[dneal]

Sorry for the perceived snarkness, it was not intended as such.

It wasn’t snarky. When a person attacks your parenting because they cannot stand data that raises doubt about the opinions they’ve intrenched themselves in… well, I wouldn’t be too worried about what they perceive.

[Chuck Naill]

For more completeness and hopefully dneal will give a thank you.

word

<rollseyes>

So you'd agree to use a vaccine on a group of people, to whom it is 400% more likely to harm than the illness itself? The study isn't peer reviewed yet, sure, but if it's true, that would be lunacy. I have noticed the other person is functionally and mathematically completely illiterate, as well as hysterical, but I am disappointed to see it coming from you. I really hope I misunderstood you.

Sorry for the perceived snarkness, it was not intended as such.

You've found Googled and found one, as you say, not peer reviewed and then ask me to agree. What sort of argument is that? You've not addressed the spread of the varient amoung children in the US. So, hell no I don't agree. Just a little more effort on your part would have prevented the necessity of this post.

The data from which the study cited is from the VAERS database. Are you familar? The study has been critized for data mining this source. Basically 162 cases per million were reported 12-15 year old boys.


“Indeed, the CDC explicitly states that VAERS cannot be used in isolation to infer the existence, frequency, or rates of vaccine complications.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2251.short

I don't mind you being snarky necessarily. It seems your pissed off at me for providing more completeness as you called it. Apparenlty unlike in your country, the ICU beds here are full and staff is having to raton care. The Delta varent has also resulted in pediatric beds in the ICU to be little or not available requiring patents to be sent elsewhere.

[dneal]

Perhaps neither side can simply post a link, let out a mighty *harrumph*, and think the issue settled. Perhaps it explains the continued bewilderment that the other isn't convinced.

[Chuck Naill]

I’m not attempting to convince. Perhaps that’s your misunderstanding.

[Chuck Naill]

Man I. Tennessee hospitalization lasted 77 days. Asking for lung transplant

[adhoc]

“Indeed, the CDC explicitly states that VAERS cannot be used in isolation to infer the existence, frequency, or rates of vaccine complications.”

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2251.short

Thanks for the link, I didn't know that the study is based on a self reporting system. Then the whole thing is bullshit anyway. I am aware how ungrateful it is to draw conclusions from a single study anyway, but it all starts somewhere, so might as well have been this one.

Without any sarcasm now, I thank you, you actually added value to this conversation.

[dneal]

I’m not attempting to convince. Perhaps that’s your misunderstanding.

No misunderstanding on my part.

[dneal]

Teacher Who Received 3 Pfizer Shots, Required Masks in Classroom Hospitalized From COVID

Harrumph, right?

[Chuck Naill]

"A kidney transplant 10 years ago left Hartley immunocompromised, which resulted in him taking extra precautions in regards to the coronavirus since studies have shown that COVID-19 poses a higher risk for people with compromised immune systems."

[dneal]

Thanks for clearly demonstrating my point.

[Chuck Naill]

If you can live with your nonsense, so can I.

[TFarnon]

Very true. There are communications holdouts like me who would have otherwise participated in the VAERS project. I don't have a smartphone, only a land line and a very basic flipphone/stupidphone. I do have a computer with high-speed internet, but after seeing no information on any way to use VAERS without the smartphone, I lost interest. I would have been a data point in the "no significant side effects" column. I had a sore arm, more sore after the second shot, but that was compounded by my cat, doing as cats Must Do, and standing right on the injection site with all the weight of universe pushing down through his front two paws. What part of the arm pain was purely the result of the second shot, I had no way to determine. Nor did it help data collection that I scheduled my shot for early on one of my days off, then came home and went (back) to sleep for about 8 hours. If I felt ill or weak during that time, I didn't notice it because...I was asleep.

My personal take was that the Shingrix series was worse. Those were painful enough to cause a unique side effect: indignation. I was indignant that my arm hurt after each shot because I wasn't expecting it, and with the exception of typhoid shots, nothing has ever really hurt, much less hurt for more than 5 minutes after injection. I mean, the Shingrix shots hurt for 24 hours! What the....???

[TFarnon]

Exactly. Without the shot, he might have become even more severely ill. Chances are, at least he won't die from this. It also illustrates the importance of T-cell function in preventing symptomatic COVID and/or reducing COVID symptoms. T-cell function is suppressed by medications in organ transplant patients so that the patients don't reject the organ(s).

It also illustrates that protection from the vaccine is not 100%. But then, does anyone really expect all vaccines to be 100% effective? That's not a reasonable expectation, and this guy is one of the reasons why it's not a reasonable expectation.

[adhoc]

Apart from the days long painful shoulder, I also had severe trouble sleeping for a week ("dancing" feet) and a burning sensation in my upper back. The latter persisted for several weeks. My doctor told me it's a known side effect and it will go away.

I didn't know what VAERS is beforehand. I would suspect this is done to lessen fraudulent data points?

[Chuck Naill]

I used to have to show this to parents who refused to vaccinate against pertussis.
https://youtu.be/S3oZrMGDMMw

Our pre mature twins had the vaccine yet contracted anyway. No vaccine is 100 percent.

[TSherbs]

Without any sarcasm now, I thank you, you actually added value to this conversation.

Even in this attempt (I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt) to compliment, you include a sneer. You're kind of a piece of work, adhoc. No one adds any more or less to the conversation than you do.

[TSherbs]

Exactly. Without the shot, he might have become even more severely ill. Chances are, at least he won't die from this. It also illustrates the importance of T-cell function in preventing symptomatic COVID and/or reducing COVID symptoms. T-cell function is suppressed by medications in organ transplant patients so that the patients don't reject the organ(s).

It also illustrates that protection from the vaccine is not 100%. But then, does anyone really expect all vaccines to be 100% effective? That's not a reasonable expectation, and this guy is one of the reasons why it's not a reasonable expectation.

No one reasonably expects 100% protection, but some use the notion (rendered in the absolute) in order to build a strawman to argue against vaccination. For example, this: "Are you telling me that I should get the vaccine, with known possible side effects and risks, even when I am in a low-risk group and you admit that the vaccine does not protect everyone from the virus?" There is an implied expectation in this that the vaccine provide 100% protection or its risks become suspect.

But, likely, no medicine of any kind works like this.

So, yes, unfortunately some people do expect complete protection, in a way.

[TSherbs]

I'm signing up for my flu shot next week. It's a little early from when I usually get it, but I want to get it done while the pharmacies are not over-run with other vax requests.