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    Default Vaccine question

    It's a very hot topic and I am just interested to hear (read) your thoughts. Are you getting a vaccine? Why or Why not? Which one will you take, one of the two shot ones or the Johnson & Johnson one shot?

    Since it would be rude to ask questions and not answer myself, here are my answers: No, at least not yet. I was given so many vaccines in the military that were trials, or new and there was never any solid data on long term issues (or how they interacted with all of the other vaccines we were given) which has made me skeptical. I also have reservations about taking vaccines for illnesses with a survival rate of over 99.9%.

    No judgement, no politics, I'm just interested in what other people think.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    My grandmother is still on the wait list at age 91, though my parents (each around 70) have gotten the first dose and are awaiting the second. I am not eligible yet but eventually, I'll probably decide in favor of the one-dose Johnson & Johnson. Being toward the back of the line, I've just been in the "wait and see" what turns up mode.

    I am indeed concerned about short-term and long-term side effects. My firm works in an "essential" field and we deal with people on a regular basis because must come to our office to handle personal and confidential matters. So I suppose I have some risk of getting sick if someone comes in with COVID without knowing it, and then I guess if I got it, it might be possible to give it to others I have to meet with subsequently. Part of our practice involves working with the elderly and some people who are ill already, so I'd rather not put them at risk either. I'm sure many of them are vaccinated, but some probably are not, for varying reasons. If people suddenly start getting sick or dying from the vaccine, then I would hold off. The Astra vaccine has had issues, but the Johnson & Johnson seems to be better. I know of quite a few people who have been vaccinated and are doing quite well.

    Given the balance of facts, I'll get the vaccine. I'm not good with needles, so the one dose is more appealing to me than having to do it twice. It's a "balance of the risks" for me.
    Last edited by Ray-VIgo; March 17th, 2021 at 03:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    The VA has called me twice offering the vaccine. Both times I told them I see lots of old guys in the hospital and clinic, and I'm sure one of them needs it more than me.

    Like the OP, I'm a little gun-shy; particularly after the anthrax vaccine we all had to get. In that case, if you missed the window for the next round (in my case because the Army screwed up and didn't have it on hand); you got to start it over. I think I've had 5 anthrax shots (instead of the required 3).

    I'm a little hesitant also because of how this vaccine works. In most cases, you get a dead or weakened version of a virus and your body develops the antibody "recipe" should you ever encounter the real thing. You stay immunized for 5 years to life, depending on the vaccine.

    In the case of the COVID vaccine (the J&J is a little different), you are injected with mRNA (which is essentially an instruction set for DNA) and cells start making the "spikes" of the corona-attribute of the virus. Your body learns the antibody recipe, and you remain immunized for nobody knows how long. J&J genetically altered the adenovirus to do essentially the same thing, which is why it doesn't have such strict storage issues.

    mRNA vaccines are not new, but also not proven. The fast-tracking to get it to market bypassed a lot of bureaucratic hurdles, but also a lot of safety protocols. COVID is far less lethal than the media would have people believe. The risk-reward calculus doesn't pass muster with me at this point.
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    The VA has called me twice offering the vaccine. Both times I told them I see lots of old guys in the hospital and clinic, and I'm sure one of them needs it more than me.

    Like the OP, I'm a little gun-shy; particularly after the anthrax vaccine we all had to get. In that case, if you missed the window for the next round (in my case because the Army screwed up and didn't have it on hand); you got to start it over. I think I've had 5 anthrax shots (instead of the required 3).

    I'm a little hesitant also because of how this vaccine works. In most cases, you get a dead or weakened version of a virus and your body develops the antibody "recipe" should you ever encounter the real thing. You stay immunized for 5 years to life, depending on the vaccine.

    In the case of the COVID vaccine (the J&J is a little different), you are injected with mRNA (which is essentially an instruction set for DNA) and cells start making the "spikes" of the corona-attribute of the virus. Your body learns the antibody recipe, and you remain immunized for nobody knows how long. J&J genetically altered the adenovirus to do essentially the same thing, which is why it doesn't have such strict storage issues.

    mRNA vaccines are not new, but also not proven. The fast-tracking to get it to market bypassed a lot of bureaucratic hurdles, but also a lot of safety protocols. COVID is far less lethal than the media would have people believe. The risk-reward calculus doesn't pass muster with me at this point.
    The Anthrax shots with boosters, Gulf War pills, along with the rabies and plague shots make me gun shy.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    The VA has called me twice offering the vaccine. Both times I told them I see lots of old guys in the hospital and clinic, and I'm sure one of them needs it more than me.

    Like the OP, I'm a little gun-shy; particularly after the anthrax vaccine we all had to get. In that case, if you missed the window for the next round (in my case because the Army screwed up and didn't have it on hand); you got to start it over. I think I've had 5 anthrax shots (instead of the required 3).

    I'm a little hesitant also because of how this vaccine works. In most cases, you get a dead or weakened version of a virus and your body develops the antibody "recipe" should you ever encounter the real thing. You stay immunized for 5 years to life, depending on the vaccine.

    In the case of the COVID vaccine (the J&J is a little different), you are injected with mRNA (which is essentially an instruction set for DNA) and cells start making the "spikes" of the corona-attribute of the virus. Your body learns the antibody recipe, and you remain immunized for nobody knows how long. J&J genetically altered the adenovirus to do essentially the same thing, which is why it doesn't have such strict storage issues.

    mRNA vaccines are not new, but also not proven. The fast-tracking to get it to market bypassed a lot of bureaucratic hurdles, but also a lot of safety protocols. COVID is far less lethal than the media would have people believe. The risk-reward calculus doesn't pass muster with me at this point.
    Oh, the point should be tired by now but apparently isn't: its not JUST about lethality. Long-term effects of infection are not rare, and should factor into everyone's personal risk assessment.

    mRNA vaccines seem no riskier at this point, and there's no evidence suggesting they're less effective long term than traditional designs.
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    My wife got Astra Zeneca jab and she's currently in emergency hospital because of lung issues, 3 days after. The issues began 1 day after vaccination.

    Before this I was all for it (the vaccine), now I wouldn't take it, nor do I want her to get the second dose. I just hope she gets out of this well.

    She's in early 30s, we already had covid, and covid put none of us in emergency room, it wasn't even bad at all. I seriously hope she'll be fine, we have a year and a half old to take care of...

    This is not political, this is not to convince anyone into anything, if you have a political or whatever opinion on this I don't care and I'm not here to argue. I'm here because I'm fucking panicing right now, as she was admitted to ER in the middle of work and I don't know what will happen to her. This is my honest, personal experience with both the vaccine and covid. I don't care about statistics, I'm well aware of all of them, but when it happens to you, the statistics are not a consolation.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    My wife got Astra Zeneca jab and she's currently in emergency hospital because of lung issues, 3 days after. The issues began 1 day after vaccination.

    Before this I was all for it (the vaccine), now I wouldn't take it, nor do I want her to get the second dose. I just hope she gets out of this well.

    She's in early 30s, we already had covid, and covid put none of us in emergency room, it wasn't even bad at all. I seriously hope she'll be fine, we have a year and a half old to take care of...

    This is not political, this is not to convince anyone into anything, if you have a political or whatever opinion on this I don't care and I'm not here to argue. I'm here because I'm fucking panicing right now, as she was admitted to ER in the middle of work and I don't know what will happen to her. This is my honest, personal experience with both the vaccine and covid. I don't care about statistics, I'm well aware of all of them, but when it happens to you, the statistics are not a consolation.
    That sounds terrifying. I wish her a quick recovery, whatever the cause.
    Will
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    My wife got Astra Zeneca jab and she's currently in emergency hospital because of lung issues, 3 days after. The issues began 1 day after vaccination.

    Before this I was all for it (the vaccine), now I wouldn't take it, nor do I want her to get the second dose. I just hope she gets out of this well.

    She's in early 30s, we already had covid, and covid put none of us in emergency room, it wasn't even bad at all. I seriously hope she'll be fine, we have a year and a half old to take care of...

    This is not political, this is not to convince anyone into anything, if you have a political or whatever opinion on this I don't care and I'm not here to argue. I'm here because I'm fucking panicing right now, as she was admitted to ER in the middle of work and I don't know what will happen to her. This is my honest, personal experience with both the vaccine and covid. I don't care about statistics, I'm well aware of all of them, but when it happens to you, the statistics are not a consolation.
    I hope and pray your wife gets better.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    She's been discharged and told she's just imagining the pain in chest. This whole thing really opened my eyes - nobody really knows anything, everyone claims it's fine and safe, but when it comes to taking responsibility you get silence.

    If I did my job this way as an engineer, I'd be fired within a week.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    She's been discharged and told she's just imagining the pain in chest. This whole thing really opened my eyes - nobody really knows anything, everyone claims it's fine and safe, but when it comes to taking responsibility you get silence.

    If I did my job this way as an engineer, I'd be fired within a week.
    I'm glad to hear that, although I doubt she's just imagining the pain and hope it resolves. Not sure how recently you and your wife had the disease itself, but chest pain w/ no easy medical explanation is something often associated with "long COVID" (post-acute symptoms). Perhaps the vaccination was related to the onset of this symptom....of course I'm just throwing out ideas here. Note that post-acute symptoms can arise even in people whose acute illness was very mild or nonexistent.

    Regardless, I don't think this should lead you or others to be vaccine-skeptical. They were already tested rigorously before emergency approval, but with something like 80 million doses in this country alone and no reports of issues (past the excruciatingly rare possible platelet disorder, and a minute number of very old, sick and frail people passing from side effects), they are far safer than most things in life. We should feel lucky they are as safe and effective as they are, because they are really the only tool we have at this point to get through this pandemic ethically.
    Last edited by fountainpenkid; March 18th, 2021 at 03:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    My wife got Astra Zeneca jab and she's currently in emergency hospital because of lung issues, 3 days after. The issues began 1 day after vaccination.

    Before this I was all for it (the vaccine), now I wouldn't take it, nor do I want her to get the second dose. I just hope she gets out of this well.

    She's in early 30s, we already had covid, and covid put none of us in emergency room, it wasn't even bad at all. I seriously hope she'll be fine, we have a year and a half old to take care of...

    This is not political, this is not to convince anyone into anything, if you have a political or whatever opinion on this I don't care and I'm not here to argue. I'm here because I'm fucking panicing right now, as she was admitted to ER in the middle of work and I don't know what will happen to her. This is my honest, personal experience with both the vaccine and covid. I don't care about statistics, I'm well aware of all of them, but when it happens to you, the statistics are not a consolation.
    The Astra Zeneca seems to be having the highest number of reported side effects. Blood clotting seems to be a recurring feature among them. I'm still more likely than not to get a vaccine, but I'd pass on the Astra Zeneca at this point. Now parts of Europe are halting distribution of that vaccine as well.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Yes, I don't want to discourage anyone from getting vaccinated, ESPECIALLY older people, but Norway has found a link between AZ vaccine and blood clots. It seems women under age of 39 are especially susceptible.

    https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/...has-been-found

    We got through covid about 3 months ago.

    I honestly thought it's political, because this fallout between EU and Brexit has been childish from both sides.
    Last edited by adhoc; March 18th, 2021 at 04:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I had the opportunity in January given my professonal position. We received the Moderna mdna vaccine. No post vaccine adverse reactions. I am very happy that it's befind me. I feel that I am more able to do what I want without a mask.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    I had the first shot two weeks ago and am due the next one next week. I have never looked forward to a shot as much as this one! Even though my arm hurt the next day, it did give me a bit of an emotional boost, hoping that things will turn around soon.

    My parents had their shots the same day I did (they are 81 and 87 and had Covid in July). My mom had 2 strokes in October; seems she has Afib. But she had been having trouble breathing after Covid and even now that she has recovered from the strokes. I'm beginning to think she's a long-hauler in some respects.

    When they tested her at the hospital, they said they could tell she had had Covid because of the microclots, so I am wondering if some of the reported clots for the AstraZeneca is due to people having had Covid and not realizing it. My mom was completely asymptomatic compared to my Dad and was quite shocked when she found out she was positive.

    Since the shot (Moderna), my Dad seems to have improved some; he's not coughing nearly as much, my Mom says. I understand that this is a reported side-effect of the vaccine for some people.

    Oh, I had the Moderna vaccine, too.
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Moderna / Pfizer are the best vaccines, aren't they? Least side effects and most effective.

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Moderna / Pfizer are the best vaccines, aren't they? Least side effects and most effective.
    That answer depends on who you ask. If you don't get the 2nd shot in the prescribed time, is it effective at all? That is one of Johnson and Johnson's selling points -one shot and done. As for side effects - I have seen none to brain damage caused by the vaccine. Honestly, I just don't think we know. I'm glad your wife is doing better (at least out of the hospital)

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    We DO know about side effects: there are very, very few serious side effects, statistically. Even the reported stroke side effects of the AZ vax is less than the rate of stroke in the general population. The possibility of harm from these vaccines on the population is statistically far, far, far less than the possibility of harm on the population from not getting one. Honestly, vaccine science and widespread use is one of the miracles of modern living. I recently read that the mrna approach may now be turned to developing a malaria vaccine to fight the most deadly scourge of the world today. Please, yes!

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Quote Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
    Moderna / Pfizer are the best vaccines, aren't they? Least side effects and most effective.
    Actually the mRNA vaccines have a higher incidence of side effects than the J&J shot (not sure about others). The Moderna in particular is known for strong side effects following the 2nd shot.
    Cookedj--it seems that a single shot of Pfizer or Moderna is quite effective, but less than the ~95% efficacy 2 weeks post 2nd shot. For some people who've already had it, the second dose seems unnecessary: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/h...ronavirus.html
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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Here's what looks like a thorough history of the AZ vax situation in Europe and the controversy around it. My conclusion is that it, and the other vaccines, are very, very safe and much less risky, especially for any group of population, than not getting the vaccine, particularly as more variants spread more widely. Europe is having another surge, and they delayed vaccination for a while (different countries different lengths of time). The surges in the US often follow those in Europe. We'll see if we can vaccinated enough of the population to avoid that surge come this spring and summer.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...he-world-needs

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    Default Re: Vaccine question

    Atlantic Magazine had a useful article about the side-effects of the second vaccine shot. We had our second Moderna shot in mid-February. That night, I woke up with terrible chills. Worse than I can ever remember. Took some Alleve, drifted back to sleep, and woke up feeling OK. I was a little groggy the rest of the day, and felt fine the next day. No big deal.

    Get the vaccine.

    "Side effects are just a sign that protection is kicking in as it should": https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ffects/617892/

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