Vaccine question

[Chuck Naill]

You are left without anything to add, yet you do….lol!

[adhoc]

In my country, vector based vaccines are now officially (as per state health authority, NIJZ) more deadly than COVID itself for young women (aged 41 and lower), as per our national statistic.

https://www.rtvslo.si/zdravje/novi-k...pljenju/595562

You can use Google Translate to read the article. This is an article from our national media. A 20 year old is clinically dead 2 weeks after being vaccinated with J&J. Our state vaccination programme lead said she is considering banning J&J vaccine as well now.

[Chuck Naill]

Just got the flu vaccine. Publix pharmacist said they would have the Moderna if approved for 3rd dose.

[Chip]

Three graphs, very simple and clear, from the NY Times.









Since I live in Wyoming, the information shown above is of immediate interest.

I leave the interpretation to you.

[TFarnon]

I have a lot of questions, but I understand that you (and many others) won't be able to answer them.

I read in the article you linked that the young woman died of a stroke. That risk has been known for at least a few months now. I don't have to ask you about the pathology of the vaccine-induced stroke, because I understand that pathology more or less. However the age of the young woman leads me to ask: did the young woman have a genetic disorder like Leiden Factor V, or Von Willebrand's Disease? Was she on progesterone-only birth control? Did she have a high or low platelet count prior to the vaccination? Did she have hyperfibrinogenemia prior to the vaccination? Did the young woman have hereditary hemochromatosis? All of those can cause coagulopathies, which might be exacerbated by the vaccine.

The other thing I'd like to mention is that COVID infection itself can cause strokes because of hypercoagulability. I assume your national health agency has obtained more information about the patient and is taking that information into consideration.

[dneal]

RE: Pathology of the vaccine induced stroke...

My understanding is that the spikes are cytotoxic, and the strategy with the vaccine is to introduce the spike messenger alone (either encased in lipids or a genetically modified adenovirus). The spikes work like other viruses' spikes, in that they're designed to lacerate or penetrate other cells' structure - and then the rest of the viral process takes over. As an aside, the way the spikes work and the way the virus unfolds and refolds to hijack the victim cell is fascinating.

With this strain of virus in particular, it appears that the lacerations/penetrations usually happen in the lungs; creating the pneumonia problem (and there is a strong argument why forced ventilation compounds rather than corrects, but that's another topic...). Rarely, but commonly enough for us to notice, the virus affects other parts of the body; mainly the brain. The loss of taste and smell, and other sensory oddities are well documented. They're looking now at brain function, decrease in tissue (prefrontal cortex mainly), etc... There will surely be lots of studies on lots of things as time goes on, and we'll see.

Even more rarely, but again common enough for us to notice; is the fatality rate of the vaccine. Statistically insignificant, really; but not if you're the one who dies (or the loved one of one who dies). Generalities don't apply to the specific, oftentimes. This isn't new either. The rollout of the polio vaccine was met with live virus in the vaccine. It was literally paralyzing and killing children. Imagine being a parent then. Vaccine or don't? They of course figured out the problem, corrected it, and then had to earn trust again.

As more data is collected and looked at, the current virus has an infection fatality rate of less than one percent. It's certainly here to stay. It's in animal reservoirs now. We can't socially distance our way to anything. We can face risk and adversity presented by this just like we have other things in human history. This and other threats to humanity certainly aren't going to stop just because we called a time out and took a nap in a safe space.

It grabs at the most primal human (and maybe animal) emotion - fear. Again, think of being a parent when the miraculous polio vaccine came out. The time for imprudent fear of this virus to end is upon us. You know what? It's kinda like the flu. A viral threat that tends to eat away at the edges of our herd. The sick, old, vulnerable, etc... We have a vaccine that works pretty good for that, but the virus still nibbles away. Doesn't matter what the virus' name is, or how it works; when the end is the same. That's kind of like nature. The whole globe is the "Serengeti", albeit exponentially more complex, but it's nature and struggle for life. Compete or don't.

You know there's something wrong when each side relishes a death when it proves their political point.

[Chuck Naill]

I’m old enough to have gotten the sugar cube polio vaccine. It was given at my elementary.

A friend is 70. Her father was a pediatrician. He gave his children every vaccine available.

She contracted polio and has required braces and walking sticks her entire life.

Another MD friend, a bit older than her lived in an iron lung for nearly a year.

I’ve never heard of anyone relishing death. Change the channel.

It’s not like the flu. It’s not like measles. It’s not like pertussis. It’s like the common cold on steroids if you require a similarity.

If the virus can do all that you mentioned, a rational decision would be to obtain the vaccine and if not, mask and distance. Not to support a political candidate, but for those you love, your neighbor, and yourself.

[dneal]

The daily ringings of the echo-chambers just foment fear and irrationality.

Interesting op-ed. Food for thought at any rate.

The Masked Ball of Cowardice

[Chuck Naill]

Food for nothing. Study your 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic requiring masks and distancing. People rebelled then as now.

Is 600k death in the US alone a fluke?

Good grief, what a fucking mentality.

[TSherbs]

I actually think that those younger persons who volunteer the more likely death of the elderly should first submit their own as testament of their bona fides.

From my point of view, a society that does not make all reasonable effort to reduce the unnecessary suffering and death of its elderly (or children...in other words, its most vulnerable members) has no business calling itself compassionate or even legitimate. It is moral bankruptcy of the highest order.

We get such bullshit logic and selfish thinking when other persons' lives can be tossed off as less worthy of being saved from otherwise premature or unwelcome extinction.

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chuck Naill]

I just wish there were people who would champion the unborn. And, that more avoidable adoptions were available.

And, I think reliable birth control should be free to all.

[adhoc]

I have a lot of questions, but I understand that you (and many others) won't be able to answer them.

I read in the article you linked that the young woman died of a stroke. That risk has been known for at least a few months now. I don't have to ask you about the pathology of the vaccine-induced stroke, because I understand that pathology more or less. However the age of the young woman leads me to ask: did the young woman have a genetic disorder like Leiden Factor V, or Von Willebrand's Disease? Was she on progesterone-only birth control? Did she have a high or low platelet count prior to the vaccination? Did she have hyperfibrinogenemia prior to the vaccination? Did the young woman have hereditary hemochromatosis? All of those can cause coagulopathies, which might be exacerbated by the vaccine.

The other thing I'd like to mention is that COVID infection itself can cause strokes because of hypercoagulability. I assume your national health agency has obtained more information about the patient and is taking that information into consideration.

I, of course, do not have the answers to your questions, as I did not know her. It's not yet proven to be linked to the vaccination, however our ER center said they have "very solid reasoning for suspicion", which is strongly worded, for someone who also said that the "situation is serious" when she was already clinically dead. It is also my understanding, as a complete non-expert, that a person such as she would have elevated risk, possibly much higher, from infection with COVID, than the vaccine. The girl since died, they couldn't save her.

As you said, the risk of a stroke after vaccination [with J&J / AZ) is well known for several months now. I believe I started pointing it out, purely because the numbers did not add up, in early March already. Weeks later, several countries in Europe made official statements confirming it. We should have banned those vaccines now, or at least for younger women.

The tragedy is, that we have since a couple of weeks ago "PCT" requirement, meaning only if you can prove you are either vaccinated, have natural immunity / antibodies to COVID, or a clean fresh test not older than 48 hours (this gets costly very fast), can you do pretty much anything. Be it going to the mall, for a drink, take the bus, go to work, anything really, except grocery shopping in a store that is not within a mall, go to the doctor and some other such necessary exceptions. The only reason this girl got vaccinated was because of this PCT requirement. Now the antivaxers in this country are basically making a martyr out of her and the situation here is, pardon the language, absolutely bat shit insane. I have never in my life seen this country in a state of such incredible violent outbursts and protests.

We're a small country with 5th lowest crime rate in the world, just 100 people peacefully standing in protest somewhere is news worthy. There were 100 thousand people yesterday in the capital because of this death and police had to interfere with water cannons because they blocked off the highway for major part of the country. People are fighting the police even. This is simply never before seen in this country.

And it all could have been prevented by simply doing a bloodwork check before vaccinating or giving her Moderna / Pfizer. We have huge stockpiles of all of the vaccines and you can freely choose whichever you want. The catch? Everyone wants J&J, because you get your PCT requirements fulfilled immediately, as it's the only single shot vaccine.

[Chuck Naill]

The J&J in the US is being questioned.

[Chuck Naill]

700,000 dead in the US. A friend contracted the virus. After getting over the inital symptoms, he continues to have a cough and lethargy. I have no idea if he had the vaccine or chose to distance/mask.

[TSherbs]

48th place worldwide.

I'm embarrassed, and very saddened.

American exceptionalism meets identity politics and scientific ignorance meets internet credulity.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...-slow-pandemic

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[adhoc]

I actually think that those younger persons who volunteer the more likely death of the elderly should first submit their own as testament of their bona fides.

I don't understand how many people must fail one throughout their educational path to become so fundamentally illiterate as you, but your posts are an eyesore. Vaccines do not prevent one from getting infected and spreading COVID, you can read this fact everywhere. You and your hysterical partner-in-idiocy here are the only people on this world not understanding this fact yet.

Please leave the keyboard and start reading. Collective human knowledge is at your fingertips, yet you choose to spend your time spewing what amounts to verbal diarrhea.

[TSherbs]

I actually think that those younger persons who volunteer the more likely death of the elderly should first submit their own as testament of their bona fides.

I don't understand how many people must fail one throughout their educational path to become so fundamentally illiterate as you, but your posts are an eyesore. Vaccines do not prevent one from getting infected and spreading COVID, you can read this fact everywhere. You and your hysterical partner-in-idiocy here are the only people on this world not understanding this fact yet.

Please leave the keyboard and start reading. Collective human knowledge is at your fingertips, yet you choose to spend your time spewing what amounts to verbal diarrhea.

Congratulations on missing my point and not recalling my other posts about the vaccine and it's efficacy. You have weird days, and this appears to be one of them.

Calm the fuck down, and try reading my post again. Hint: it was an argument about making sure that the elderly get all the vaccine protection that they deserve (and also how I feel about people who callously dismiss elderly mortality).

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

[Chuck Naill]

I actually think that those younger persons who volunteer the more likely death of the elderly should first submit their own as testament of their bona fides.

I don't understand how many people must fail one throughout their educational path to become so fundamentally illiterate as you, but your posts are an eyesore. Vaccines do not prevent one from getting infected and spreading COVID, you can read this fact everywhere. You and your hysterical partner-in-idiocy here are the only people on this world not understanding this fact yet.

Please leave the keyboard and start reading. Collective human knowledge is at your fingertips, yet you choose to spend your time spewing what amounts to verbal diarrhea.

Sounds like you don’t understand how vaccines work. Disease prevention are exactly how vaccines work.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/con...vacc-work.html

The polio vaccines prevent polio, not just give you a slight limp.

The benefit of the Covid vaccine is to prevent or at least lessen the severity.

Some people are immune compromised such as the elderly and those with co morbidity.

If it makes you feel better to get personal, it’s your call, but it makes you look like you don’t know enough to form a legitimate response.

[TSherbs]

I actually think that those younger persons who volunteer the more likely death of the elderly should first submit their own as testament of their bona fides.

I don't understand how many people must fail one throughout their educational path to become so fundamentally illiterate as you, but your posts are an eyesore. Vaccines do not prevent one from getting infected and spreading COVID, you can read this fact everywhere. You and your hysterical partner-in-idiocy here are the only people on this world not understanding this fact yet.

Please leave the keyboard and start reading. Collective human knowledge is at your fingertips, yet you choose to spend your time spewing what amounts to verbal diarrhea.

Sounds like you don’t understand how vaccines work. Disease prevention are exactly how vaccines work...

He does know. He just misunderstood my post, and was triggered about something.

Or, perhaps, he doesn't care about the increased vulnerability to lethal disease among the elderly. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. For now.

He probably thought that I meant that he should get vaccinated (or boostered) to protect the elderly. That is exactly not what I said. But that may have been the lens through which he is reading this, even though we are occasionally making other points.

But he can explain, if he feels like it.

[Chuck Naill]

I can only go on what he said, otherwise, I’ll follow your lead.