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Thread: Preserve, protect and defend

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    I never said Trump was a genius or a moron. He is many things that no parent would wish on their child.

    I do know who chose to deal not with American allies in place. For whatever reason. It was not done by Biden. He is many things, but he wasn’t in charge at that time .

  2. #42
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    I never said Trump was a genius or a moron.
    Curious. What did I say that prompted this response? Maybe this? "It kind of reminds me..."

    Yes, I see now that clearly is saying you said Trump was a genius (or moron)... *rolleyes*
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    How would the Trump deal have been altered? When you open the door, it’s hard to shut.
    But here's a quick lesson on international negotiations 101. When you have the world's most powerful military, you can alter any deal you want. See: Machiavelli

    The alternative, if the other side doesn't agree to the alteration of any deal, is a return to another 20 years of inconclusive conflict. That's how good the 'world's most powerful military' was in Afghanistan, to say nothing of Vietnam or Korea (to name just 2 similar conflicts).

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  5. #44
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    False dichotomy, and completely misses the point.

    We could have stayed in Afghanistan as long as we wanted. We could have killed every man, woman and child if we wanted. Guaranteed to eliminate the violence that way.

    The point though, is that the U.S. is more than capable militarily of securing things long enough to evacuate citizens first, and that isn't even counting the allies (although to be honest, the Turks are the only ones I'd want with me in a fight. The rest of you are useless.) Anyway, maybe we could even tell our allies that we're sneaking out in the middle of the night, so they aren't in the same boat with citizens scattered across the country. How exactly are NATO relations going with Biden again?

    Nice try with the baiting at the end though.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Yeah, that's why it was 20 years of inconclusive conflict.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Yeah, that's why it was 20 years of inconclusive conflict.
    Well, you're tenacious.

    Note for Tsherbs - This (EoC's posts) is trolling.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Hardly trolling, just reiterating the point that in 20 years the 'world's most powerful military' was unable to achieve any kind of significant victory.

    We could have stayed in Afghanistan as long as we wanted. We could have killed every man, woman and child if we wanted. Guaranteed to eliminate the violence that way.
    Every problem is a nail, eh?

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I never said Trump was a genius or a moron.
    Curious. What did I say that prompted this response? Maybe this? "It kind of reminds me..."

    Yes, I see now that clearly is saying you said Trump was a genius (or moron)... *rolleyes*
    " I'm not sure which is a more stupid position for you to take. It kind of reminds me of how Trump was simultaneously an evil sooper-genius and a moron (which is what you guys said about Bush, and Reagan, and... hmmm, maybe that's overused by your team.)"

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Yeah, that's why it was 20 years of inconclusive conflict.
    Well, you're tenacious.

    Note for Tsherbs - This (EoC's posts) is trolling.
    No, that is far from trolling. Whatever you think "could have" been done, EOC is simply pointing out how little was actually accomplished: 20 years of inconclusive embroilment. You pretty much said the same thing in your posts (when you were on topic and not mocking someone).

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  12. #50
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    I never said Trump was a genius or a moron.
    Curious. What did I say that prompted this response? Maybe this? "It kind of reminds me..."

    Yes, I see now that clearly is saying you said Trump was a genius (or moron)... *rolleyes*
    " I'm not sure which is a more stupid position for you to take. It kind of reminds me of how Trump was simultaneously an evil sooper-genius and a moron (which is what you guys said about Bush, and Reagan, and... hmmm, maybe that's overused by your team.)"
    I was speaking of the general “you”, but fair point.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Hardly trolling, just reiterating the point that in 20 years the 'world's most powerful military' was unable to achieve any kind of significant victory.

    Every problem is a nail, eh?
    Still won't distinguish between the 20 year campaign and the abject failure to effect an orderly withdrawal, and leave no citizen or ally behind?
    Every post a swing and amiss.

  14. #52
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Yeah, that's why it was 20 years of inconclusive conflict.
    Well, you're tenacious.

    Note for Tsherbs - This (EoC's posts) is trolling.
    No, that is far from trolling. Whatever you think "could have" been done, EOC is simply pointing out how little was actually accomplished: 20 years of inconclusive embroilment. You pretty much said the same thing in your posts (when you were on topic and not mocking someone).

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    Nope. What did he reiterate, and why?

    If you can’t see it, it’s probably why I can troll you and EoC can’t troll me.

    —edit—

    The nebulous rules are amusing though. I’m pretty sure EoC was arguing that if one misunderstood a post, the fault lied with the writer. Does that only work one way? It seems to change when he’s the writer.
    Last edited by dneal; September 2nd, 2021 at 05:51 PM.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    I’m pretty sure EoC was arguing that if one misunderstood a post, the fault lied with the writer. Does that only work one way? It seems to change when he’s the writer.
    And you are of course dead wrong. I suggested that misunderstanding may be the result of poorly written statements. It is a foolish individual indeed who believes that everything they write is without ambiguity or open to misinterpretation. Fairly sure some of what I write is interpreted by others differently than what I intended. You though are supremely confident that nothing you write could be so misinterpreted. That's a very arrogant position to take, and one not borne out by some of the responses you get here. Of course all those responses must be wrong, according to you.


  16. #54
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Hardly trolling, just reiterating the point that in 20 years the 'world's most powerful military' was unable to achieve any kind of significant victory.

    Every problem is a nail, eh?
    Still won't distinguish between the 20 year campaign and the abject failure to effect an orderly withdrawal, and leave no citizen or ally behind?
    Every post a swing and amiss.
    And indeed you have swung and missed.

    I was replying to a twig of this thread where a statement was made about the apparent power of the US military to get any outcome it desired - which is evidentially not the case. In no manner was I addressing the current withdrawal thing in those responses. My apologies if you found that unclear.

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Yeah, that's why it was 20 years of inconclusive conflict.
    Well, you're tenacious.

    Note for Tsherbs - This (EoC's posts) is trolling.
    No, that is far from trolling. Whatever you think "could have" been done, EOC is simply pointing out how little was actually accomplished: 20 years of inconclusive embroilment. You pretty much said the same thing in your posts (when you were on topic and not mocking someone).

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    Nope. What did he reiterate, and why?

    If you can’t see it, it’s probably why I can troll you and EoC can’t troll me.

    —edit—

    The nebulous rules are amusing though. I’m pretty sure EoC was arguing that if one misunderstood a post, the fault lied with the writer. Does that only work one way? It seems to change when he’s the writer.
    You "can troll" people here because there is no moderation to ban you. You do it because you like it and you've found a place where you can pick on a few targets with moderation impunity. It would be an act of hubris to suggest any other motive or dynamic.

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  19. #56
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    I’m pretty sure EoC was arguing that if one misunderstood a post, the fault lied with the writer. Does that only work one way? It seems to change when he’s the writer.
    And you are of course dead wrong. I suggested that misunderstanding may be the result of poorly written statements. It is a foolish individual indeed who believes that everything they write is without ambiguity or open to misinterpretation. Fairly sure some of what I write is interpreted by others differently than what I intended. You though are supremely confident that nothing you write could be so misinterpreted. That's a very arrogant position to take, and one not borne out by some of the responses you get here. Of course all those responses must be wrong, according to you.

    You suggested it when kazoolaw cornered you, for your benefit. You aren’t fooling anyone. I’ve been here through many of your name (and personality?) changes over the years. You are just in your high and mighty mode now. That’ll change.

    I am as consistent as ever. Wanna be a dick? Let’s go. Want to have a reasonable discussion? Cool.

    I have tried many times with you, only to be disappointed. Stop pretending.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  20. #57
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    I’m pretty sure EoC was arguing that if one misunderstood a post, the fault lied with the writer. Does that only work one way? It seems to change when he’s the writer.
    And you are of course dead wrong. I suggested that misunderstanding may be the result of poorly written statements. It is a foolish individual indeed who believes that everything they write is without ambiguity or open to misinterpretation. Fairly sure some of what I write is interpreted by others differently than what I intended. You though are supremely confident that nothing you write could be so misinterpreted. That's a very arrogant position to take, and one not borne out by some of the responses you get here. Of course all those responses must be wrong, according to you.

    You suggested it when kazoolaw cornered you, for your benefit. You aren’t fooling anyone. I’ve been here through many of your name (and personality?) changes over the years. You are just in your high and mighty mode now. That’ll change.

    I am as consistent as ever. Wanna be a dick? Let’s go. Want to have a reasonable discussion? Cool.

    I have tried many times with you, only to be disappointed. Stop pretending.
    Always the dick yourself, though. It's kind of sick what you do. You mistreat them verbally, then suggest to them that they can have your nice side if they treat you right and play by your rules. It's a pattern of abuse. It's why I tell you to fuck off. You mistreat people here, and you get pleasure from it. You even brag about it. You even use it to threaten people with your dickishness. Well, so EOC doesn't "fool you". Well you don't fool me.



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  21. #58
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    You guys can’t stay on topic to save your lives.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Wouldn't worry about it too much, TSherbs. Look at the type of language is being used. Confrontational, appeals for personal approval, insults direct and indirect, attempts to intimidate, threats. It piles on in almost every post, and serves no purpose in moving discussion forward. I guess that's not the purpose though. Even when I say I honestly didn't get the intent of a statement I've just read, I get beaten with that. Any opportunity to attack, no effort made to build bridges to mutual understanding.

    Being a dick appears to be his core characteristic.


    So, in the spirit of trying to understand, dneal what exactly do you think I'm pretending to be? I'll wait.

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  24. #60
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Wouldn't worry about it too much, TSherbs. Look at the type of language is being used. Confrontational, appeals for personal approval, insults direct and indirect, attempts to intimidate, threats. It piles on in almost every post, and serves no purpose in moving discussion forward. I guess that's not the purpose though. Even when I say I honestly didn't get the intent of a statement I've just read, I get beaten with that. Any opportunity to attack, no effort made to build bridges to mutual understanding.

    Being a dick appears to be his core characteristic.


    So, in the spirit of trying to understand, dneal what exactly do you think I'm pretending to be? I'll wait.
    Hello pot, I’m kettle.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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