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Thread: Preserve, protect and defend

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    "If they’ll not help — if these governors won’t help us beat the pandemic, I’ll use my power as President to get them out of the way. " (emphasis added)
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...19-pandemic-3/
    Given his attitude toward the Constitution what form will getting them out of the way take?
    You’re using a straw man approach by claiming you know his attitude toward the Constitution. What is he doing that former presidents haven’t also done?

    Consider Lincoln’s emancipation proclamation for slaves in 7 Confederate States?

  2. #82
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Pssst, Chuck…

    that’s not a straw man.
    Be your own tenth man.

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Sure it is my good friend….😅😂

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    No Chuck, seriously. It's not.

    You identified the right thing, the implication of attitude; but that's an assumption (inductive logic). Prove the assumption false, and it doesn't matter what follows from it. There's maybe a hint of ad hominem sprinkled on there that can be inferred.

    Anyway, a straw man is when one characterizes another's argument, and then attacks the characterization they've constructed. Your post is closer to that than Kazoolaw's.
    Be your own tenth man.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    "The Constitution does not say that the President shall execute the laws, but that “he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed,”

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitu...s-law-enforcer

    This teaches me that when someone says Joe Biden is going against the Constitution, he may not necessarily be. His justice department is going against the state of Texas on their abortion ruling. In light of the above concept, he is simply making sure the laws are faithfully executed give that abortion is legal in the US.

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Since we are discussing the Constitution...
    "Mr. Pence told him that the president was convinced that Mr. Pence could throw out the election results in order to keep himself in power.

    “Mike, you have no flexibility on this,” Mr. Quayle told Mr. Pence. “None. Zero. Forget it. Put it away.”

    “I know, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell Trump,” Mr. Pence said. “But he really thinks he can. And there are other guys in there saying I’ve got this power.”

    Mr. Pence then echoed Mr. Trump’s false claims of election fraud. “Well, there’s some stuff out in Arizona,” Mr. Pence said.

    “Mike, I live in Arizona,” Mr. Quayle said. “There’s nothing out here.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/14/u...ook-trump.html

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    nevermind
    Last edited by TSherbs; September 15th, 2021 at 11:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    You’re not the only one unless you’re not reading my posts, my learned friend.

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    You’re not the only one unless you’re not reading my posts, my learned friend.
    so noted

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    "If they’ll not help — if these governors won’t help us beat the pandemic, I’ll use my power as President to get them out of the way. " (emphasis added)
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...19-pandemic-3/
    Given his attitude toward the Constitution what form will getting them out of the way take?
    You’re using a straw man approach by claiming you know his attitude toward the Constitution. What is he doing that former presidents haven’t also done?
    Not a strawman argument. Heaven knows I've built one or two in the past.

    I've given you Biden's exact words, in quotations. He said he would "get them out of the way." What constitutional method does he contemplate using? And no, I don't think Joe will go Tony Soprano on the guvs.

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    "If they’ll not help — if these governors won’t help us beat the pandemic, I’ll use my power as President to get them out of the way. " (emphasis added)
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...19-pandemic-3/
    Given his attitude toward the Constitution what form will getting them out of the way take?
    You’re using a straw man approach by claiming you know his attitude toward the Constitution. What is he doing that former presidents haven’t also done?
    Not a strawman argument. Heaven knows I've built one or two in the past.

    I've given you Biden's exact words, in quotations. He said he would "get them out of the way." What constitutional method does he contemplate using? And no, I don't think Joe will go Tony Soprano on the guvs.
    He is not acting against the Constitution in both incidents you’ve posted. As President he has powers that allow him to act to preserve and protect.

    Where were you when Trumps was sending his poor mindless minions to the capital?

  12. #92
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Whataboutism?
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    You’re no better at that definition than you were with straw man .

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Nah, go ahead, ignore the stay based on "grave statutory and constitutional concerns."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/06/w...e-blocked.html

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Mandate exceeds government's authority, most likely violates principle of separation of powers, causes irreparable harm to individuals: Fifth Circuit Court Opinion staying vaccine mandate. Another failure to preserve, protect, and defend.

    "First, the Mandate likely exceeds the federal government’s authority
    under the Commerce Clause because it regulates noneconomic inactivity that
    falls squarely within the States’ police power. A person’s choice to remain
    unvaccinated and forgo regular testing is noneconomic inactivity."
    ***
    "Second, concerns over separation of powers principles cast doubt over
    the Mandate’s assertion of virtually unlimited power to control individual
    conduct under the guise of a workplace regulation."
    ***
    "It is clear that a denial of the petitioners’ proposed stay would do them
    irreparable harm. For one, the Mandate threatens to substantially burden the
    liberty interests of reluctant individual recipients put to a choice between
    their job(s) and their jab(s). For the individual petitioners, the loss of
    constitutional freedoms “for even minimal periods of
    time . . . unquestionably constitutes irreparable injury.”
    BST Holdings vs OHSA
    https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinion...-60845-CV0.pdf



  16. The Following User Says Thank You to kazoolaw For This Useful Post:

    dneal (November 13th, 2021)

  17. #96
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Are you for or against a vaccine mandate, Kaz? If against, what rational basis would you suggest?

  18. #97
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    A rational basis.

    nm_constitution_101230_mn.jpeg
    Be your own tenth man.

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    kazoolaw (November 14th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    I believe that the Pope is exceeding his authority, as the alleged representative of an imaginary deity, in denying reproductive rights to women.

    Where do I file a case?

    Certainly not in the present Supreme Court.

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    Senior Member Linger's Avatar
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    Default Preserve, protect and defend

    One generation ago we decided to limit one’s freedom by making drunk driving illegal. Half a generation ago we decided to limit one’s freedom by making smoking in public and work places illegal. Some countries decided to limit one’s freedom by making gun ownership a strictly legally regulated exception rather than a rule. There is plenty of rational basis to limit individual freedom for one if it interferes with the freedom of others. I don’t see any reason why allowing virus particles of a deadly disease to be blown in my face be any different. Freedom comes with responsibility. If you can’t handle that, we take away that freedom.

    Edit: typo
    Last edited by Linger; November 14th, 2021 at 03:48 AM.

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    Chuck Naill (November 14th, 2021), Empty_of_Clouds (November 14th, 2021)

  23. #100
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    Default Re: Preserve, protect and defend

    Quote Originally Posted by Linger View Post
    One generation ago we decided to limit one’s freedom by making drunk driving illegal. Half a generation ago we decided to limit one’s freedom by making smoking in public and work places illegal. Some countries decided to limit one’s freedom by making gun ownership a strictly legally regulated exception rather than a rule. There is plenty of rational basis to limit individual freedom for one if it interferes with the freedom of others. I don’t see any reason why allowing virus particles of a deadly disease to be blown in my face be any different. Freedom comes with responsibility. If you can’t handle that, we take away that freedom.

    Edit: typo
    A succinct an outline of the unlimited power of government over individual rights.

    Note: there is no logical end to the limitation of individual freedom.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to kazoolaw For This Useful Post:

    dneal (November 14th, 2021)

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