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Thread: Political Tribalism

  1. #21
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by ethernautrix View Post
    My friend Greg Nagan wrote a blog post on this subject yesterday. Actually, it's about "(a) project at the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics has been looking into the polarization of American culture and politics in the hopes of finding an antidote" and cites the results of a poll (which findings might or might not be properly substantiated but are interesting nevertheless -- and alarming if true).

    https://www.amerikansketilstande.dk/...ican-bogeymen/

    Greg concludes, for those not interested in following links, that the political divide won't be mended by the political machinery (including media) but by individuals who overcome the relentless messaging from the "machine." (That's totally my quick and careless paraphrasing, btw. Łapa wants to go out. Biedna Łapa!)
    Similar polarization data as the paper referred to in the video, and linked in the OP. A lot of it would be solved with a correction of Federal power more in line with the Constitution. It was never intended to be this large, powerful (and not to mention wasteful or corrupt). We talk about "sanctuary" cities or states, and these ideas are usually initiated by liberals (although conservatives use the tactic now too). That's precisely the point of State's rights (10th Amendment). Want recreational weed? State voters approve? Sorry, the FDA says it's a schedule I drug and you can't do that. An executive bureaucracy outlawed a thing through a "rule", and the federal government will claim that power in the supremacy clause trumps the 10th Amendment.

    So everyone fights over power wielded by a President and Federal government for all sorts of reasons, and we surprisingly get polarization over time. If that power is restored to the States, the national fights we have now would be unimportant.
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by ethernautrix View Post
    My friend Greg Nagan wrote a blog post on this subject yesterday. Actually, it's about "(a) project at the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics has been looking into the polarization of American culture and politics in the hopes of finding an antidote" and cites the results of a poll (which findings might or might not be properly substantiated but are interesting nevertheless -- and alarming if true).

    https://www.amerikansketilstande.dk/...ican-bogeymen/

    Greg concludes, for those not interested in following links, that the political divide won't be mended by the political machinery (including media) but by individuals who overcome the relentless messaging from the "machine." (That's totally my quick and careless paraphrasing, btw. Łapa wants to go out. Biedna Łapa!)
    Actually, I thought that this writer was calling for Biden simply to *ask* for unity. He said that the president could heal this divide. Didn't he even write out the words that Biden should use? That was my take-away. And actually, the tenor of the scripted speech reminded me of the tenor of Biden's victory acceptance speech back in 2020.

    Anyway, thanks for sharing this.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Living in Wyoming (roughly 80% voted for Trump) I'm surrounded by people who disagree with my politics quite strenuously. The guy who rents our former house nearby works at a weapons plant and wears t-shirts with slogans like SOCIALISM KILLS! Still, we've never had an argument, which has taken restraint on both sides. I see him as decent, if misguided, and respect him for it.

    I vote my convictions, donate to candidates and causes I support, and tend mostly to associate with people who share my beliefs (tribal, perhaps). But we share more than just political affiliations. At times, I've been attacked for representing values other than those of Wyoming, to which I reply (with a grin) that I was born here. Where are you from? Nebraska? Texas? California?

    The idea that living in a place means one has to adopt a slate of values and opinions that fit some vague concept is tribal in the extreme, but I see it a lot hereabouts. If I couldn't coexist with people who claim to hate me and all I represent, I wouldn't be able to survive.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Chip, you remind me of how "tribal" our federal system of states and their various identity politics can be, even though within the states there can be a variety of political and cultural points of view. We get powerful reminders of this when politicians try to tape into state tribal identities to activate and win over voters. Additionally, our Electoral College voting mechanism amplifies these issues.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    I observed that if you do the right things, sooner or later you’ll win over the radicals. Just anecdotal of course.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    I just finished reading this weeks column by David Brooks where he discribes Essentialism. I was reminded how I put Trumpians or Anti-Vaccine people in a context that is a construct of my own making. So, I apologize and will try not to continue.

    As he said, he wouldn't want to live in a world without groups of people who share a common experience or relationship. However, when we begin to think our groups is the only one that is important or that we are superior, we get that German Christians are superior to German Jews or that white people are superior to brown and black skinned people.

    We know, if we think about it that not all Trump or Biden supporters are the same, think the same, have the same motive, etc.

    When the media is slammed for putting out fake news, we should know that this cannot be true, but we think it, or some think it. It is like being critical of "big pharma" when we know these corporations are not all the same, research the same, or have the same leadership. Brooks quoted Kant "perception without conceptions are blind".

    Perhaps we can change.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    Living in Wyoming (roughly 80% voted for Trump) I'm surrounded by people who disagree with my politics quite strenuously. The guy who rents our former house nearby works at a weapons plant and wears t-shirts with slogans like SOCIALISM KILLS! Still, we've never had an argument, which has taken restraint on both sides. I see him as decent, if misguided, and respect him for it.

    I vote my convictions, donate to candidates and causes I support, and tend mostly to associate with people who share my beliefs (tribal, perhaps). But we share more than just political affiliations. At times, I've been attacked for representing values other than those of Wyoming, to which I reply (with a grin) that I was born here. Where are you from? Nebraska? Texas? California?

    The idea that living in a place means one has to adopt a slate of values and opinions that fit some vague concept is tribal in the extreme, but I see it a lot hereabouts. If I couldn't coexist with people who claim to hate me and all I represent, I wouldn't be able to survive.
    I enjoy having civil discussions with people that don't think like me. While there are teachers in my building that push their flavor of politics, I try and get the students to critically think about the issues, look at different perspectives etc. As conservative as I am, I don't like to continually listen to only conservative talk radio. BTW I loved visiting Wyoming, so beautiful.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    When social media makes more money by stirring up factional and "tribal" tensions (and they do make more money this way), don't expect them to do otherwise on their own volition.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    I grew up in a "conservative" household—my dad was in the John Birch Society (extreme)—and I was bombarded with right-wing propaganda. Then, as I finished high school, I began to realize that the stuff I'd been taught to believe was mostly dead wrong. The dire predictions (takeover by the Chinese communists, domination by the UN, a race war) never took place. As I went through university, I concluded that so-called conservatives were mostly reactionary, racist, and divorced from reality by their beliefs and the sources of information they chose, along with a self-justifying greed and sense of entitlement.

    The breaking point for me was the constant right-wing support for wars, based on lies and profiteering: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, all those police actions. Calling that constant destruction and mayhem patriotic is to me, the essence of evil. Right up there with slavery.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    When social media makes more money by stirring up factional and "tribal" tensions (and they do make more money this way), don't expect them to do otherwise on their own volition.

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    The main stream media too.
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Overgeneralization IMHO. Any rational person should be able to read a newspaper or listen to a reputable news story and determine whether it is factual or not.

    Obviously Trump and some support the false narritive that he won the election. So, if a reasonably intellgent person wanted to know whether this is true or false, there are several ways to find out the truth. One need not depend on one source.

    A member said they were being asked by their students why some Federal employees were exempt from the Biden vaccine mandate. I was able to find that the separation of powers in the Constitution was the reason in less than 30 seconds. Now, why would an educator not be able to do the same? Why would they say they don't know, if they did?

    It appears our libraries, online and physical structures, are being ignored and replaced by FB and YouTube. And, grouping all media as biased is pure nonsense. You just have to learn how to read and listen. As my old college librarian used to say when students would ask her to do their research, "educaton requires rigor". We have become lazy and used to being spoon fed food that does not required being chewed.

    Lets discuss this story about raising the debt limit. We hear some say they don't want to pay for socialists programs. When you do a bit of research you discover the reason is to pay for what you have already spent.
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; October 9th, 2021 at 06:59 AM.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Lets discuss this story about raising the debt limit. We hear some say they don't want to pay for socialists programs. When you do a bit of research you discover the reason is to pay for what you have already spent.
    For instance, the billions dumped into "defense" when we're not being attacked. Did you miss the fact that the US had more private contractors in Afghanistan than soldiers? Talk about gougers, thieves, and profiteers. The "defense" budget is welfare for corporations that actively subvert our government and promote endless wars, for profit.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism


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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    To whom it might also apply,
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-w...on-11633727345
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    We need to realize the enemy is the government and not our neighbor.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    We need to realize the enemy is the government and not our neighbor.
    What do you mean by this?

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Another source stating the same regarding the debt ceiling.

    "The ceiling is a limit on federal borrowing, much like the limit on a credit card. The government only borrows to provide for spending previously authorized by Congress, or to pay the interest on outstanding debts.

    Congress has already voted to spend this money. The only choices at this point are raising the debt limit so that the necessary money can be borrowed, or breaking promises.

    Failing to raise the debt ceiling would amount to taking a hammer to the foundations of the global financial system, which rests on the absolute confidence of investors that the United States will always repay its debts."
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/09/o...-congress.html

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Regarding the SCOTUS
    "WASHINGTON — Ordinarily staid and silent Supreme Court justices have become whirling dervishes of late, spinning madly to rebut the idea that Americans are beginning to regard the court as a dangerous cabal of partisan hacks.

    They need not fret and wring their hands. No one is beginning to think that.

    Many of us have thought that for a long time."

    "As some on Twitter noted, our 20 years of quicksand in Afghanistan was capped Friday with this headline: “Son of Afghanistan’s Former Defense Minister Buys $20.9 Million Beverly Hills Mansion.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/09/o...servative.html
    Last edited by Chuck Naill; October 10th, 2021 at 07:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    We need to realize the enemy is the government and not our neighbor.
    What do you mean by this?

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    The government is the one with authority deligated from God not the individual. We need to hold our government to its constitutional standards in order to bless/love our neighbors and restore the common good. From my vantage both major political parties fall short (not to the same degree) but I believe the country could come together under a Bible worldview for a better unified tomorrow.

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    Default Re: Political Tribalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    We need to realize the enemy is the government and not our neighbor.
    What do you mean by this?

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    The government is the one with authority deligated from God not the individual. We need to hold our government to its constitutional standards in order to bless/love our neighbors and restore the common good. From my vantage both major political parties fall short (not to the same degree) but I believe the country could come together under a Bible worldview for a better unified tomorrow.
    Isn't that a theocracy? Aren't you just saying that you want to replace the current government with a Christian theocracy?

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