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Thread: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

  1. #21
    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post
    Hi Jar--are the cracks in the caps of 25Xs primarily an aesthetic concern, or something more serious?

    And can you say something about why the wing nibs are so special?

    Thank you!

    Chris
    They are more than just aesthetic. Not all 25x pens will have the cracks, mine don't, but you pay more for such pens when you buy from someone knowledgeable enough to know if the cracks are there.

    Take a look at a typical nib of the period. Here is a 144.



    and a 264 below a 146.



    Note the length of the tines compared to the width at the shoulder.

    Now look at the tine to shoulder ratio on the wing nibs.



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  2. #22
    Member cnjackson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post
    Hi Jar--are the cracks in the caps of 25Xs primarily an aesthetic concern, or something more serious?

    And can you say something about why the wing nibs are so special?

    Thank you!

    Chris
    They are more than just aesthetic. Not all 25x pens will have the cracks, mine don't, but you pay more for such pens when you buy from someone knowledgeable enough to know if the cracks are there.

    Take a look at a typical nib of the period. Here is a 144.



    and a 264 below a 146.



    Note the length of the tines compared to the width at the shoulder.

    Now look at the tine to shoulder ratio on the wing nibs.



    About the cracks--I guess I mean: are they likely to lead to altogether unusable caps?

    If I understand your photos correctly, the effect of the wing nib design is to effectively "lengthen" the tines, making them flexier?

    I'm attracted to these 25x pens, but I have to admit the more traditional threaded caps appeal to me more than the slip caps. Maybe the 264 you've mentioned would be nice...

    C

  3. #23
    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post
    Hi Jar--are the cracks in the caps of 25Xs primarily an aesthetic concern, or something more serious?

    And can you say something about why the wing nibs are so special?

    Thank you!

    Chris
    They are more than just aesthetic. Not all 25x pens will have the cracks, mine don't, but you pay more for such pens when you buy from someone knowledgeable enough to know if the cracks are there.

    Take a look at a typical nib of the period. Here is a 144.



    and a 264 below a 146.



    Note the length of the tines compared to the width at the shoulder.

    Now look at the tine to shoulder ratio on the wing nibs.



    About the cracks--I guess I mean: are they likely to lead to altogether unusable caps?

    If I understand your photos correctly, the effect of the wing nib design is to effectively "lengthen" the tines, making them flexier?

    I'm attracted to these 25x pens, but I have to admit the more traditional threaded caps appeal to me more than the slip caps. Maybe the 264 you've mentioned would be nice...

    C
    Yes, they can split even above the cap band in extreme cases. Most folk though get really careful when they hear that first "crack" and either stop posting the cap, put the pen away or sell it as "near Mint NOS" on eBay. The issue is that once cracked the cap does not seal and the pen dries out even when capped.

    The 264 was a compromise. They have the conventional nibs and screw on caps, just simpler plain monotone nibs and only two rings. Also the section is pretty straight instead of concave.

    Last edited by jar; September 1st, 2013 at 09:04 AM.
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post

    ...snip...

    About the cracks--I guess I mean: are they likely to lead to altogether unusable caps?


    Eventually, yes, I fear. Bit of a design oversight.
    If you cap the pen up to the clutch ring, the inner cap flexes as it snaps over the ring. The outer cap is too inflexible to accommodate this and it cracks.

    I found that once the cap had 3 or 4 cracks in it, it would stabilize for a while (years, in my case).
    I also found (too late) that the cap stayed on well without having to go as far as the clutch ring, an excellent friction fit.

    I got many years out of it, but had to replace the cap eventually (Bought a parts pen with an excellent cap)
    My friend now has it as her daily user. Superb pens.
    Here's the nib, a BB. (Photo: Michael Eltig)



    As Jar says, if you find one with a good cap, they're well worth the experience.
    Those wing nibs are a joy.

    Good luck.
    Edited to correct quote excerpt.
    Last edited by CS388; September 1st, 2013 at 08:10 PM.

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    cnjackson (September 2nd, 2013)

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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Thanks Jar and CS388--for the pix and the thoughts. I wil certainly keep my eyes open for a nice 254 with the cap in good shape. And also for the 264. All in good time!

    Right now, with the exception of a 244G that I have (and it needs some nib work), I am going to start my vintage explorations with the less expensive 342 and/or Monte Rosa 042. I imagine I'll work my way up to some of the pens I covet (though only for the looks right now, as I have no real experience to go on yet!).

    Thanks again!
    C

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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Actually--I do have a question about vintage MBs.

    With more modern pens, I do really like a stubbish nib--as a source of line variation.

    With vintage (semi)flex pens, I realize that the flex will be a source of line variation.

    I don't think I quite know enough yet to ask this question the way I want to, but: for someone who likes a wet stubbish modern nib, and would like to explore vintage nibs a bit, would it make more sense to pursue the more common vintage fine semi-flex pen, or seek out something like CS338's BB nib above?

    I'm not sure if this is an answerable question: but any insights / perspectives would be great!

    And do 1950's M and OM nibs have a stubbish character?

    Chris

  9. #27
    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Remember that at that time fountain pen manufacturers made a full line of nibs that ranged from stiff to flex, rounded to stub, italic to oblique, steno to broad. Unfortunately over the half century since the pen was made nib may have been swapped out or modified and so your best tool is still your Mark I Calibrated Eye.
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  10. #28
    Senior Member ChrisC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    One thing though, my dad's MB 254 wing nib in 'Fine' is quite stiff. It is slightly springy, but quite hard. It is also quite dry. Doesn't skip really, it's just a consistently dry flow. Just putting that out there so nobody's disappointed by a wing nib they thought would be flexy.

  11. #29
    Senior Member tandaina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by cnjackson View Post
    Actually--I do have a question about vintage MBs.

    With more modern pens, I do really like a stubbish nib--as a source of line variation.

    With vintage (semi)flex pens, I realize that the flex will be a source of line variation.

    I don't think I quite know enough yet to ask this question the way I want to, but: for someone who likes a wet stubbish modern nib, and would like to explore vintage nibs a bit, would it make more sense to pursue the more common vintage fine semi-flex pen, or seek out something like CS338's BB nib above?

    I'm not sure if this is an answerable question: but any insights / perspectives would be great!

    And do 1950's M and OM nibs have a stubbish character?

    Chris
    Answer: It depends. The M and OM nibs I wouldn't call stubbish, at least not those I've used. However, the BB nibs gold and steel nibs I have are very stubbish. That's what makes them sough after in fact. In general the the 50s irridium was quite flat. Far flatter than our modern iridium globs. So I find most 50s MB and Pelikan nibs to be far more stubbish by nature that modern nibs. My OBB, and BB nibs are stubs, whether they are rated that way or not. They give very nice line variation. And some are also flexible, making them even more fun.
    ---
    Current pen rotation: way too many!

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    cnjackson (September 2nd, 2013)

  13. #30
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Thanks Tandaina,

    That confirms what I thought--you get some stubbiness at B and above. I guess I'm waffling on whether to dive into MB vintage flex land with the more readily available fine nibs or with something in B...

    We'll see!

    Chris

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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Beautiful collections, congratulations !
    Francis

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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Hi all,
    Attached a picture of my vintage Montblanc collection.
    As you will see, i've restricted myself somewhat to piston fillers, and specially to pens featuring the ingenious telescopic filler.
    Still searching for a nice 136 with a long ink window ....... someone want to part with one???
    Regards, Francis



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    Fawkes (September 15th, 2013)

  17. #33
    Senior Member jar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vintage Collectors? Share your experience.

    Nice Francis.
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