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Thread: Tell us why anyone should agree...

  1. #21
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Chuck, I’ve seen goalposts moved - but the way you drug completely new ones into this thread is amazing.

    Tariffs, no matter what administration proposed them, have absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Chuck, I’ve seen goalposts moved - but the way you drug completely new ones into this thread is amazing.

    Tariffs, no matter what administration proposed them, have absolutely nothing to do with this topic.
    It’s whataboutthisim

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    dneal (October 12th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Can you answer?
    Who's on first?

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    Chuck Naill (October 13th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    It's Chuck, being unable to justify the Biden administration's invasion of privacy, trying to deflect the discussion, thinking that no one will notice.

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    dneal (October 13th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    “Yes, there are concerns that some people have. But if people are breaking the law and not paying their taxes, one way to track them is through the banking measure.” - Nancy Pelosi

    That’s not how our system works. It is the burden of the prosecution to establish probable cause in order to obtain a warrant or subpoena from a judge. This proposal turns that long established principle on its head.
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    It's Chuck, being unable to justify the Biden administration's invasion of privacy, trying to deflect the discussion, thinking that no one will notice.
    I have no need to justify. Perhaps that's your problem. You post something that you perceive I have some obligation to respond. Your mistake.

    Just so you know, I am delighted Biden won. I'd do whatever a voter can do to prevent Trump from gaining office again. I say this as an orphaned Republican, as George Will so well discribes.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    “Yes, there are concerns that some people have. But if people are breaking the law and not paying their taxes, one way to track them is through the banking measure.” - Nancy Pelosi

    That’s not how our system works. It is the burden of the prosecution to establish probable cause in order to obtain a warrant or subpoena from a judge. This proposal turns that long established principle on its head.
    So when it pleases you or suits your perogative you want our system to work? Ha!!

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    I have no need to justify.
    Can not justify, defend, or find anything favorable about the invasion of privacy.

    Chuck, you have no obligation to respond to the topic. Consider whether you have an obligation to remain on topic as you continue to deflect.

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    dneal (October 13th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Seems like this will hurt small business disproportionately
    Seems likely that the data will be collected from banks. Otherwise, it will be impossible to collect.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Not that there's a conspiracy, but there's been speculation that the increased costs will cause smaller institutions to fold. This is not an assertion of the correctness, just reporting loose talk.

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    dneal (October 13th, 2021)

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Ah. Here is the section that worries Kaz, found, as he said, at Page 88. The first part seems to tighten reporting on business expenses. The last part adds reporting on crypto-currency trades, something that the crypto industry has screamed against. There is an enforcement paragraph in the middle, which Kaz quoted to begin this discussion:

    INTRODUCE COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL ACCOUNT REPORTING TO IMPROVE TAX COMPLIANCE Current Law Business income is subject to limited information reporting. Current information reporting of gross receipts exists for only certain types of revenue (from Forms 1099-MISC, 1099-NEC, and 1099-K), and there is no information reporting on total deductible expenses.

    Reasons for Change The tax gap for business income (outside of large corporations) from the most recently published Internal Revenue Service (IRS) estimates is $166 billion a year.1 The scale of this revenue loss is driven primarily by the lack of comprehensive information reporting and the resulting difficulty identifying noncompliance outside of an audit. While the net misreporting percentage is only 5 percent for income subject to substantial information reporting, the net misreporting percentage for certain categories of business income exceeds 50 percent. Requiring comprehensive information reporting on the inflows and outflows of financial accounts will increase the visibility of gross receipts and deductible expenses to the IRS. Increased visibility of business income will enhance the effectiveness of IRS enforcement measures and encourage voluntary compliance.

    Proposal This proposal would create a comprehensive financial account information reporting regime. Financial institutions would report data on financial accounts in an information return. The annual return will report gross inflows and outflows with a breakdown for physical cash, transactions with a foreign account, and transfers to and from another account with the same owner. This requirement would apply to all business and personal accounts from financial institutions, including bank, loan, and investment accounts,2 with the exception of accounts below a low de minimis gross flow threshold of $600 or fair market value of $600.

    Other accounts with characteristics similar to financial institution accounts will be covered under this information reporting regime. In particular, payment settlement entities would collect Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TINs) and file a revised Form 1099-K expanded to all payee accounts (subject to the same de minimis threshold), reporting not only gross receipts but also gross purchases, physical cash, as well as payments to and from foreign accounts, and transfer inflows and outflows.

    Similar reporting requirements would apply to crypto asset exchanges and custodians. Separately, reporting requirements would apply in cases in which taxpayers buy crypto assets from one broker and then transfer the crypto assets to another broker , and businesses that receive crypto assets in transactions with a fair market value of more than $10,000 would have to report such transactions.

    The Secretary would be given broad authority to issue regulations necessary to implement this proposal.

    The proposal would be effective for tax years beginning after December 31, 2022.

    Footnotes: (1 Computed from individual income tax business income, small corporations, and self-employment tax components.)
    (2 Current income reporting by financial institutions would be expanded to all entities, including certain corporations. Interest payments would be included in the loan account reporting. Transferee information would be reported for all real estate transactions on Form 1099-S.)
    Last edited by welch; October 13th, 2021 at 10:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Not that there's a conspiracy, but there's been speculation that the increased costs will cause smaller institutions to fold. This is not an assertion of the correctness, just reporting loose talk.
    Reporting would seem a burden on banks without the IT staff to write the reports. I'm no longer close enough to have an idea how to capture the data, but the Fed's Automated Clearing House (ACH) ultimately carries every payment in the country.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    The notion that reports need to be written is quaint. Our bank already has a automated tracking system that flags transactions that seem "unusual" by standards to which I have no access. My credit card has been blocked unnecessarily as a result more than once. I also have to notify the banks when I travel or make a larger than usual purchase.

    We gave money to my sister-in-law who hit a bad patch and had to file all manner of stuff to do a simple bank-to-bank transfer.

    So it seems that the tracking system is already in place.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    My position is this: track as much revenue and income as is possible to make all the fuckers pay their share. It's a gross social injustice that the well_heeled with tax accountants and elaborate corporate setups get to reduce their tax burden (or hide illegal money). Fuck them.

    That's clear, eh?

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Clear indeed: your share too.

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    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    “Yes, there are concerns that some people have. But if people are breaking the law and not paying their taxes, one way to track them is through the banking measure.” - Nancy Pelosi

    That’s not how our system works. It is the burden of the prosecution to establish probable cause in order to obtain a warrant or subpoena from a judge. This proposal turns that long established principle on its head.
    So when it pleases you or suits your perogative you want our system to work? Ha!!
    More banal assertions with no substance. Try again.
    Be your own tenth man.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    I don’t like that a person who owns a company can write off a $80k pickup and someone who doesn’t can’t.

    It’s time either everyone or no one can write off stuff.

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    “Yes, there are concerns that some people have. But if people are breaking the law and not paying their taxes, one way to track them is through the banking measure.” - Nancy Pelosi

    That’s not how our system works. It is the burden of the prosecution to establish probable cause in order to obtain a warrant or subpoena from a judge. This proposal turns that long established principle on its head.
    So when it pleases you or suits your perogative you want our system to work? Ha!!
    More banal assertions with no substance. Try again.
    Why?

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    My position is this: track as much revenue and income as is possible to make all the fuckers pay their share. It's a gross social injustice that the well_heeled with tax accountants and elaborate corporate setups get to reduce their tax burden (or hide illegal money). Fuck them.
    Talking these guys, right?
    https://rb.gy/831cab

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    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Looks like a virus 🤭🤭🤭

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