Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 78 of 78

Thread: Tell us why anyone should agree...

  1. #61
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,769
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 810 Times in 435 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    So Dneal who is the bigger problem, the politicians or those wealthy influencers?
    One could make an argument for either, depending on the criteria. I don't think it really matters at this point.
    Be your own tenth man.

  2. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    @dneal I was not making a statement of blame, nor a fix. I was answering Bold's questions about "equal" and "fair."

    My other comment was to suggest that the party in power lacked courage and principle on this topic. Your reply suggests that you agree. Just because I am not surprised (I am not: cowardice and avarice do not surprise me) does not mean that they shouldn't be called out on this.

  3. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    I am willing to sacrifice some privacy in my accounts for greater equity of the burden of taxation (and fees, etc). The poor are getting fucked worse than the damage some additional scrutiny of my accounts would cause me. In other words, I would take that hit for the team.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  4. #64
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    541
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 92 Times in 63 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    I would not give an inch to the machine which caused/allowed this problem. When will we stop fighting each other and look at the bigger problems…

  5. #65
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    1,769
    Thanks
    797
    Thanked 810 Times in 435 Posts
    Rep Power
    9

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    @dneal I was not making a statement of blame, nor a fix. I was answering Bold's questions about "equal" and "fair."

    My other comment was to suggest that the party in power lacked courage and principle on this topic. Your reply suggests that you agree. Just because I am not surprised (I am not: cowardice and avarice do not surprise me) does not mean that they shouldn't be called out on this.
    Ok. I made my statement based on the thoughts that arose from your post. I'm saying the problem is bigger than "the rich" or any particular party taxing them at a higher or lower rate.

    There are second and third order effects to the feel-good "get those fuckers" attitude from the AOC's, Bernie's and others of similar political bent. Not-"rich" people's 401k's and other retirement accounts are tied to the prosperity of the "rich".
    Be your own tenth man.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to dneal For This Useful Post:

    TSherbs (October 21st, 2021)

  7. #66
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,622
    Thanks
    329
    Thanked 543 Times in 369 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    401K's are investments where the investor is free to move their funds. So, not entirely true that prosperity is tied to the rich. It is tied to our level of rish aversion.

  8. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    @dneal I was not making a statement of blame, nor a fix. I was answering Bold's questions about "equal" and "fair."

    My other comment was to suggest that the party in power lacked courage and principle on this topic. Your reply suggests that you agree. Just because I am not surprised (I am not: cowardice and avarice do not surprise me) does not mean that they shouldn't be called out on this.
    Ok. I made my statement based on the thoughts that arose from your post. I'm saying the problem is bigger than "the rich" or any particular party taxing them at a higher or lower rate.

    There are second and third order effects to the feel-good "get those fuckers" attitude from the AOC's, Bernie's and others of similar political bent. Not-"rich" people's 401k's and other retirement accounts are tied to the prosperity of the "rich".
    Neither party taxes them enough, but the Dems have traditionally done better over the last 100 years.

    Like the car industry, who cried that seat belt and airbag requirements would ruin the industry with costs that would make them less profitable (bullshit), I tend not to worry about higher taxes and their effects. Avarice and greed are so deeply ingrained that a higher tax does not bump the monied class out of wanting to work and make more and grow their businesses. Hardly! We just don't like taxes. But it does not deter the desire for more wealth. People who want more simply want more, no matter how much of it they get to keep (basically).

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  9. #68
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    401K's are investments where the investor is free to move their funds. So, not entirely true that prosperity is tied to the rich. It is tied to our level of rish aversion.
    Have you seen the average savings for an American household of for? Have you seen the median income for a household of four? Let's not overstate what actual savings most people have in this country. It is shockingly little.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  10. #69
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    541
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 92 Times in 63 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    I say we implement a simplified tax system to improve compliance. The eminent problem is the tax of inflation that will come and hit the middle class

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Bold2013 For This Useful Post:

    dneal (October 21st, 2021)

  12. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TSherbs View Post
    What's "wrong" is that the system is rigged in favor of those with capital against those without. The laborer who has the bulk of her taxes taken out of her paycheck, has no other income, pays all of the other fees, duties, and taxes at exactly the same rates as the wealthy, has no opportunity or resources to reinvest or save or move or hide her paltry savings or defer taxes until a more propitious time...

    is fucked compared to what the wealthy can use in the system as it is presently rigged.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
    I agree that the system is indeed rigged, but I think where we diverge is in where the blame is laid - and how to correct it.

    I know he's the new "boogeyman", and I hardly think he's a role-model for anyone or anything; but what Steve Bannon gets right is his "party of Davos" thesis. If he is to toxic of a personality to consider, then there also is the liberal Eric Weinstein who identifies them as the "kleptocracy".

    In both cases, they discuss how the system is rigged. The 30,000 foot analysis is simply that the wealthy (business, banking and others) pay politicians through legal means to arrange the system to their benefit. The politicians profit from it. The media (and Victor Davis Hanson lays out clearly the "nepotistic" relationships) is part of it as well.

    One can argue that we need to increase taxes on the "rich", but those same people pay the lawyers that write the bills (see: Big Pharma and Obamacare). Those same people fund campaigns. We cannot expect some moral revelation from within the corruption to correct it - just as the bill passed to stop the congressional equivalent of "insider trading" was lip-service and a charade.
    We absolutely live in a kleptocracy. One of the greatest hoodwinks of modern history had been to convince Americans that this is fair and divine (just, and god-ordained). Every statement of "God bless America" is a reinforcement of this pernicious mythology upon the gullible and suggestible.

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  13. #71
    Senior Member Empty_of_Clouds's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,629
    Thanks
    601
    Thanked 2,077 Times in 998 Posts
    Rep Power
    10

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quick question: In the context of this discussion, is the 'God bless America' sentiment tied to the Protestant ethic and the associated rise in capitalism? Asking for a friend.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Empty_of_Clouds For This Useful Post:

    Chuck Naill (October 22nd, 2021), TSherbs (October 21st, 2021)

  15. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    And Eurocentric racism, mon frere (my French friend said that)

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

  16. #73
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    541
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 92 Times in 63 Posts
    Rep Power
    8

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    What is racist now?

  17. #74
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 209 Times in 165 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Quick question: In the context of this discussion, is the 'God bless America' sentiment tied to the Protestant ethic and the associated rise in capitalism? Asking for a friend.
    No.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to kazoolaw For This Useful Post:

    dneal (October 21st, 2021)

  19. #75
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    2,093
    Thanks
    1,140
    Thanked 1,183 Times in 693 Posts
    Rep Power
    11

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    What is racist now?
    European colonial history, mi amigo.
    Last edited by TSherbs; October 21st, 2021 at 07:31 PM.

  20. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,622
    Thanks
    329
    Thanked 543 Times in 369 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    It is not racist to view what is going on in Haiti right now or it's history by being critical. It is racist to use it as excuse for why black people are no better than whites. This is because the focus is on skin color and ascribing value accordingly. Human nature and how wealthy and powerful people seems to live does have an effect on how those with less power and wealth must do to survive.

    I've said this before, and something Dr. King said, "you don't tell a bootless man to pull himself up by his boots straps, that is exactly what many white American think. We look at the poor and those involved in gangs and think the historical collective "we" didn't play a role.

    Deciding to think differently will be impossible for some because they will fail to ever self educated themselves and will settle for smug, easily digested stories of convenience from others. However, for those willing, there is a wealth of true histories. As more avail themselves of the truth, perhaps the US can get past their past.


    When you consider the generational wealth of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, and their use of forced labor, why would they ever be considered heros without false histories? Who would not benefit if you had their wealth, education, and opportunity. To think an African slave, simply by being emancipated can have the same outcome of a rich man with free labor, your are not thinking or worse, brainwashed. Or, more worse, just because you'd rather not believe it.

  21. #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    495
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 209 Times in 165 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Interesting thoughts Chuck.
    How would you relate them to the topic of government harvesting your personal financial information?

  22. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    1,622
    Thanks
    329
    Thanked 543 Times in 369 Posts
    Rep Power
    4

    Default Re: Tell us why anyone should agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    Interesting thoughts Chuck.
    How would you relate them to the topic of government harvesting your personal financial information?
    I was more reponding to EOC's posts.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •