Restoring Fortitude

[dneal]

I like Dan Crenshaw. He says a lot of things I agree with, and a lot of things I don't. Mainly, I like that he's reasonable. He doesn't appear to me to be ruled by his emotions, partisanship, lobbyists, or any of the other things we see from a lot of politicians. It's not because he's a Republican, and I can say the same thing about Tulsi Gabbard or Seth Moulton (both Democrats) - and a few others. I think they're the types of folks we need in government.

He wrote a piece for the Washington Examiner recently, and I think it generally lays out the two competing philosophical viewpoints between the D's and R's of today's political environment. I tend to agree with Rep. Crenshaw's views espoused below.

Thoughts?

OCTOBER 11, 2021 05:38 PM
REP. DAN CRENSHAW

Freedom is a worthwhile goal, most would agree. Crucially and more specifically, freedom with responsibility is a worthwhile goal. A libertine society where anything goes and consequences are ignored is less American-style freedom and more a scene from an antifa-led autonomous zone. The American founding is based on ordered liberty. Our sense of liberty is based on the idea that was so well communicated by St. John Paul II: “Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.”

Once you start talking about the need for responsibility as a critical part of freedom, you lose some people. Responsibility is hard. If freedom means charting your own way, taking care of yourself, and living with the consequences of your actions, then freedom is indeed risky. With the possibility of great reward comes great risk, after all.

Many people are simply not up for the challenge of responsibility and therefore true freedom. This is why it is so easy for politicians like Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders to manipulate the meaning of the word, and claim that you cannot be “free” unless you are given affordable housing, healthcare, and a decent wage. According to Sanders, to be free is to be able to live off of the services of others.

Thus, the promise of Utopian socialism: Your basic needs will be met, and you can therefore pursue your dreams. Who meets these basic needs, and how are they incentivized to do so? Socialists never really figured that one out. Many millions died as a result.

Personal responsibility is more than just a conservative value, it is a foundation for a free society. If you are not responsible for yourself or your actions, then by definition you believe someone else must be responsible for you — and you will demand of your politicians that other, more productive people are forced to take on that additional responsibility so that you may take on less and less. Some might even label this “social justice.”

And if personal responsibility is a critical prerequisite for freedom, then fortitude is a critical prerequisite for personal responsibility. Courage, strength, resilience — all are increasingly missing from a society that now celebrates victimhood as a virtue. Victimhood has become so celebrated, in fact, that famous and privileged people (looking at you, Jussie Smollett and Elizabeth Warren) are willing to lie about being victims. Not exactly the Greatest Generation anymore.

It is time to restore fortitude in citizens before it is too late. At present, our country is strong and resilient despite the doomsday predictions of many. Truthfully, this is still the best place to be in the world, with an abundance of strong people: men willing to fight our wars, entrepreneurs willing to invest and create jobs, inventors working on the next breakthrough, and families willing to raise their children to be strong and successful. Much of this is based on a sense of duty that is deeply imbued in the American spirit, the duty to be better than you were yesterday, the duty to pursue challenge, the duty to contribute. But much of it is also due to incentives and the simple knowledge that your hard work will indeed pay off.

But what if it didn’t pay off?

Without incentives, our most productive people, our strongest people, will see less and less point to their hard work. The infamous Soviet communist quote comes to mind: “As long as they keep pretending to pay us, we will keep pretending to work!” A free society cannot last long with an increasing number of free-riders and a decreasing number of productive people. As Ben Shapiro recently quipped : “America is faced with a choice. Do we acknowledge what we are — the greatest power in world history, complete with the obligation to defend our interests — or do we sink into a warm bath, eat ourselves into morbid obesity with deficits and welfare spending, and wait for China?”

Without fortitude, without a sense of duty to be better, without a deep sense of responsibility, more and more people will choose the easier path. The easy path is easy because it is short and leads nowhere but down. It is a quick trip to dependency and free ice cream. But you can’t get out easily once you’ve descended.

If America is to maintain its place as the shining city on the hill, then citizens must start taking the harder path. This path is hard because it leads up. It is treacherous, and you may fall down at times. You must learn from your hardships here. There is no one to navigate it for you. You must take control of the destination yourself. It is scary, but it is worth it, and there is more than just riches on this path — there is meaning.

Only a strong person can walk this path. Freedom is scary, and responsibility is even scarier. It takes strength and courage to compete against others in a free society and chart your own destiny. Conservative leaders breathlessly shout of their fight for freedom, "Freedom from government overreach." But this is incomplete. It’s time we stopped limiting ourselves to demanding freedom from government control and begin demanding of the citizen that which is a foundation of freedom: fortitude.

[Chip]

What utter self-ennobling crap.

"Socialists never really figured that one out. Many millions died as a result." Specifically in Russia? China? Cambodia?

What about the further millions who've died as a result of colonialism, fascism, and capitalism? Slavery: not a problem?

This "strong person– freedom is scary" guff is attractive only to the foolish, powerless, resentful, and envious.

[kazoolaw]

What utter self-ennobling crap.

"Socialists never really figured that one out. Many millions died as a result." Specifically in Russia? China? Cambodia?

What about the further millions who've died as a result of colonialism, fascism, and capitalism? Slavery: not a problem?

This "strong person– freedom is scary" guff is attractive only to the foolish, powerless, resentful, and envious.

Yes to all 3: Russia (think Stalin's Famine), China (think Great Leap Forward), Cambodiav(think Killing Fields). Millions dead in each.

There you go again with whataboutism. Can't rebut? Change the subject. Stay focused Chip.

Want to write about colonialism, fascism, or slavery? Go ahead. Which of those are being actively promoted in the US now? I'll wait.

I can see why fortitude would be a foreign concept to you, as opposed to the hit-and-run comments you try to pass as analysis.

I'm thinking Crenshaw's on the right track.

[Chip]

[QUOTE=kazoolaw;339625]

I can see why fortitude would be a foreign concept to you, as opposed to the hit-and-run comments you try to pass as analysis.

What a cheap, nasty little shot.

[kazoolaw]

What utter self-ennobling crap.

* ** * *
This "strong person– freedom is scary" guff is attractive only to the foolish, powerless, resentful, and envious.

I can see why fortitude would be a foreign concept to you, as opposed to the hit-and-run comments you try to pass as analysis.

What a cheap, nasty little shot.

But Chip...
Was it utter crap?
Was it scary guff to you?
Did it describe you as foolish, powerless, resentful, and envious?
Or, did it hit the bullseye on your commentary?

[Chip]

I can see why fortitude would be a foreign concept to you, as opposed to the hit-and-run comments you try to pass as analysis.

If anyone cares to discuss the personal aspects of "fortitude" perhaps we could compare our work histories and other pursuits rather than level empty accusations.

I'm guessing the biggest risk you ever took was to cheat on your income tax.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

There is a real danger - nay, it's actually happening in these threads -that the flag of 'whataboutism' is driven up the pole in response to any examples used in a discussion. Not all examples are a means to deflection.

Freedom is a worthwhile goal, most would agree. Crucially and more specifically, freedom with responsibility is a worthwhile goal. A libertine society where anything goes and consequences are ignored is less American-style freedom and more a scene from an antifa-led autonomous zone. The American founding is based on ordered liberty. Our sense of liberty is based on the idea that was so well communicated by St. John Paul II: “Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.”

And yet this freedom without responsibility is the currently projected image of freedom in the US, and it is being promoted by the average Joe in the street and not specifically or exclusively antifa.

I'm all for fortitude, and it's the one thing I agree upon from that op piece. Much of the rest is the usual nationalistic chest-thumpery and, as Chip put, self-ennobling crap.

[kazoolaw]

There is a real danger - nay, it's actually happening in these threads -that the flag of 'whataboutism' is driven up the pole in response to any examples used in a discussion. Not all examples are a means to deflection.

* * *

And yet this freedom without responsibility is the currently projected image of freedom in the US, and it is being promoted by the average Joe in the street and not specifically or exclusively antifa.

I'm all for fortitude, and it's the one thing I agree upon from that op piece. Much of the rest is the usual nationalistic chest-thumpery and, as Chip put, self-ennobling crap.

Whataboutism may be overused, or even misused, but when a response begins with "What about..." the temptation to tweak the speaker was too much to resist.

I'm curious about the source of your perspective of the average Joe on the street, and who you think the "average" American Joe is. That's not my perception of the vast majority of the Joes I rub elbows with, but would like to hear more from you.

[Chip]

I'm all for fortitude, and it's the one thing I agree upon from that op piece. Much of the rest is the usual nationalistic chest-thumpery and, as Chip put, self-ennobling crap.

Living in New Zealand, I found myself admiring the political culture for the emphasis on fairness: a fair go for the common folk. Got this book a few years back, that looks at the differences to the US in detail.

[TSherbs]

I'm all for fortitude, and it's the one thing I agree upon from that op piece. Much of the rest is the usual nationalistic chest-thumpery and, as Chip put, self-ennobling crap.

Living in New Zealand, I found myself admiring the political culture for the emphasis on fairness: a fair go for the common folk. Got this book a few years back, that looks at the differences to the US in detail.

What's the thesis?

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[Chip]

What's the thesis?

Simply, that in the US, there's a focus on "freedom," specifically a perceived lack of constraint or restraint regarding individual action, as a virtue. Where in New Zealand (and to some extent, Australia) the focus is on the responsibility of government to extend an equitable social contract, even if it requires some constraints on individual behavior, specifically that sort which harms others or forecloses their social or economic options.

[TSherbs]

What's the thesis?

Simply, that in the US, there's a focus on "freedom," specifically a perceived lack of constraint or restraint regarding individual action, as a virtue. Where in New Zealand (and to some extent, Australia) the focus is on the responsibility of government to extend an equitable social contract, even if it requires some constraints on individual behavior, specifically that sort which harms others or forecloses their social or economic options.

Thanks for explaining that, Chip. I appreciate it. I find American culture inimical to this discussion (generally) because the idea of larger social obligations to each other or sacrifices (especially economic) *for* each other become labeled *Marxist* or some such blunt blow meant to poison the conversation rather than deepen it.

[Chuck Naill]

I’m thinking of examples of fortitude like Martin Luther King, JR. and Joseph Biden.

Perhaps he doesn’t, but I see lots of people overcoming great pain and set backs to survive .
And, as MLK said, you don’t tell a bootless man to pull himself up by his boot straps .

If all it took was being responsible and having fortitude for success, we might not be struggling as a nation to work for a common purpose. There is a place to assist others. Two lessons from Jesus some to mind , the man who was befriended by the man from Samara, and the feeding of the 5000. He also responded to a thief while being crucified.

[dneal]

Some takeaways I wasn't expecting.

It really breaks down to one taking responsibility for oneself, or wanting the government to do it. The latter seems lazy and weak.

I'm reminded of Thomas Sowell's question: "What exactly is your fair share of what someone else has worked for?"

[Empty_of_Clouds]

In my opinion, it's not an either/or situation. There are areas where I would expect people to take personal responsibility, and there are other areas where I expect the government to step up. How you decide which bucket to place things in is the tricky bit.

[ralfstc]

In my opinion, it's not an either/or situation. There are areas where I would expect people to take personal responsibility, and there are other areas where I expect the government to step up. How you decide which bucket to place things in is the tricky bit.

Completely agree. Lazy binaries are how we got where we are today. Crenshaw's piece is horribly written and, while claiming some sort of higher level perspective, very quickly devolves into partisan talking points.

I imagine almost everybody would be comfortable with the idea that freedom and responsibility go together. The harder question is what sorts of freedoms, and for whom, and what sorts of responsibility? As an example (not making a political point here) if I found a tech company and make a $100 Billion, what is the balance between my freedom to enjoy my wealth and my responsibility to the community/country that helped me to be successful?

All of us, wherever we live, need to get involved in a REAL conversation about the role of the state and business and community in individuals in the world we want to see. Simple binaries and partisanship aren't going to help, I don't think.

Best wishes,

Ralf

[dneal]

Of course there are nuances involved, and levels of complexity; but they’re still two competing political philosophies. That creates a dichotomy.

[Empty_of_Clouds]

So what? As a society we need to embrace both. Choosing one or the other won't work.

[dneal]

So what? As a society we need to embrace both. Choosing one or the other won't work.

So what? You tell me. You brought it up.

Envision if you will, a spectrum with finite ends. Opposing positions along a continuum. Recognizing the ends does not limit you to them. There's still a whole range in the middle.

Are you done with the navel gazing? Is there some other pedantic point you would like to argue?

[TSherbs]

Are you done with the navel gazing? Is there some other pedantic point you would like to argue?

Still being the dick, I see.

You base your argument on a dichotomy and then call it "pedantic" and "navel gazing" to point out the limitations of argument via dichotomy? Nice work, there.

How about you just get smarter? You posted a stupid, jingoistic column full of false assumptions, overgeneralizations, and false dichotomies. You asked for comments and got answers. We could go over every line and show you the flaws, but it ain't worth the time cuz no one really cares enough, and you slander those who actually give you a sincere reply (that you don't like).

Nothin' new this week.

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