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Thread: Restoring Fortitude

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    In my opinion, it's not an either/or situation. There are areas where I would expect people to take personal responsibility, and there are other areas where I expect the government to step up. How you decide which bucket to place things in is the tricky bit.
    Completely agree. Lazy binaries are how we got where we are today. Crenshaw's piece is horribly written and, while claiming some sort of higher level perspective, very quickly devolves into partisan talking points.

    I imagine almost everybody would be comfortable with the idea that freedom and responsibility go together. The harder question is what sorts of freedoms, and for whom, and what sorts of responsibility? As an example (not making a political point here) if I found a tech company and make a $100 Billion, what is the balance between my freedom to enjoy my wealth and my responsibility to the community/country that helped me to be successful?

    All of us, wherever we live, need to get involved in a REAL conversation about the role of the state and business and community in individuals in the world we want to see. Simple binaries and partisanship aren't going to help, I don't think.

    Best wishes,

    Ralf

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  3. #82
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    If anything, Rep Crenshaw got one thing right:

    "Once you start talking about the need for responsibility as a critical part of freedom, you lose some people."

    What role does individual responsibility play in a democracy? What responsibilities does an individual have to a democracy?

    Seems both those notions are present in the "horribly written, partisan, self-ennobling, etc..." piece.
    Be your own tenth man.

  4. #83
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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by dneal View Post
    If anything, Rep Crenshaw got one thing right:

    "Once you start talking about the need for responsibility as a critical part of freedom, you lose some people."

    What role does individual responsibility play in a democracy? What responsibilities does an individual have to a democracy?

    Seems both those notions are present in the "horribly written, partisan, self-ennobling, etc..." piece.
    The problem is, no one if fully responsible. It sounds good to say.

    And for that matter, why expect someone to always be responsible? As someone, somewhere said, “ sometimes you need a hand and some times you need to lend a hand.

  5. #84
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Are the rich responsible for paying their taxes?
    Last edited by dneal; October 21st, 2021 at 04:30 PM. Reason: added "their" for clarity
    Be your own tenth man.

  6. #85
    Senior Member Chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    In the US, a great many corporations deploy complex legal and financial strategies to deny being responsible for their toxic waste and evade liabilities. While keeping the profits. And hiring lawyers and lobbyists, who lack any conscience whatsoever.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/b...chemicals.html

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip View Post
    In the US, a great many corporations deploy complex legal and financial strategies to deny being responsible for their toxic waste and evade liabilities.
    A call for corporate responsibility, and fortitude at the corporate level.

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    I was listening to a story about a Trump golf course where he disputed the value assessed by the local property tax office. He was allowed to negotiate the value thus demonstrating the advantage of the wealthy.

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    where I live I can dispute any increase in the tax assessment of my home.
    You too?

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    where I live I can dispute any increase in the tax assessment of my home.
    You too?
    How successful do you think you'd be? Or, have you tried and if not, why not? Was the Trump assessment punitive? If not, we can assume he just didn't want to pay and had the means to block.

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    If I'm correct I think I'd be successful. To this point I've not seen the need to contest my assessment.
    I have no knowledge of the Trump assessment, nor are details provided in your post for me to consider.
    I have seen instances of taxing authorities grossly overvaluing property for tax purposes.

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    If you think you’d be successful and haven’t, that would be sort of stupid not to try?

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    If I think the current assessment is reasonable why would I appeal?

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by kazoolaw View Post
    If I think the current assessment is reasonable why would I appeal?
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/6110044001/

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Not to worry, I don't own a golf course.

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    I am fascinated by these "discussions" that presume the viability of the U.S. as a nation -- not fascinated enough to read all the vapid commentary though.

    My ex-wife has become a full-blown conspiracy theorist, sadly. I hate seeing her descent into madness. Anyway, here's something I wrote to her in response to her last episode of insanity:

    "There is a genuine medical emergency, yes. We are dealing with it as best we can given the political situation and general madness and ignorance all about; progress is being made. Yes, the government is totally dysfunctional and in the hands of wealthy corporate interests whose only desire for good order is their own greed. Yes, this country is a crumbling empire, and 20 years from now I suspect it will be hugely different. Yes, there may be a cataclysmic change coming. Yes, the economy is a hollowed-out shell, and it could implode at any time. Yes, climate change is real, seems to be accelerating and is human-induced. All true, and all plainly obvious to any thinking person who has eyes to see. But this is not all the workings of a sinister plan from the mind of a James Bond villain. This is what we humans have brought upon ourselves through our own selfishness, ignorance and lack of self-discipline."

  17. #96
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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliant Bill View Post
    I am fascinated by these "discussions" that presume the viability of the U.S. as a nation -- not fascinated enough to read all the vapid commentary though.

    My ex-wife has become a full-blown conspiracy theorist, sadly. I hate seeing her descent into madness. Anyway, here's something I wrote to her in response to her last episode of insanity:

    "There is a genuine medical emergency, yes. We are dealing with it as best we can given the political situation and general madness and ignorance all about; progress is being made. Yes, the government is totally dysfunctional and in the hands of wealthy corporate interests whose only desire for good order is their own greed. Yes, this country is a crumbling empire, and 20 years from now I suspect it will be hugely different. Yes, there may be a cataclysmic change coming. Yes, the economy is a hollowed-out shell, and it could implode at any time. Yes, climate change is real, seems to be accelerating and is human-induced. All true, and all plainly obvious to any thinking person who has eyes to see. But this is not all the workings of a sinister plan from the mind of a James Bond villain. This is what we humans have brought upon ourselves through our own selfishness, ignorance and lack of self-discipline."
    Bill, do you take the position that it is not viable that the U.S. can continue as a nation? Is the U.S.' condition terminal?

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    It is not terminal, but it is not the same. It appears every generation must go through this process. WW2 made men distant from their families and while I understand the military is important, it appears is damages more than it improves.

    My father once asked if I had changed a diaper. My response was, "I have three children". As an adult male with children, my position was that it was more my responsibility than the mother.

    One thing we have always wanted is truth. Educate yourself and tell your children the truth if you want a relationship with subsequent generations.

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Whom does one trust?

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    Whom does one trust?
    This is really the heart of the matter

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    Default Re: Restoring Fortitude

    Quote Originally Posted by Bold2013 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pajaro View Post
    Whom does one trust?
    This is really the heart of the matter
    Those who have proven themselves trustworthy. This is not a matter of words, it is evidenced by a demonstrated life.


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