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Thread: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

  1. #21
    Senior Member ethernautrix's Avatar
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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Thanks, junglejim.

    Yeah, I'm thinking that if there are to be more authorized US dealers, they'd have to visit Nakaya in Japan and get some specific training (and up close assessment, for the trust).

    Warm greetings.
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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Just wanted to add something to this thread. I called nibs.com last week. They said John still comes to the office and you can still request a grind from him.

    I have to say that I was a little grumpy these past few years that you still had to pay Mottishaw grind prices for work done by apprentices.


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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by maddington View Post
    ...

    I have to say that I was a little grumpy these past few years that you still had to pay Mottishaw grind prices for work done by apprentices.

    ...
    That's not really that uncommon especially if under the teachers supervision (especially if there were a follow-up complaint).

    If you get the grind you expected, then isn't really any different?

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by maddington View Post
    They said John still comes to the office and you can still request a grind from him.
    I would not commit to paying a penny unless and until I got a personal communication from John that he would be doing the work.

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    Lloyd (January 17th, 2022)

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maddington View Post
    ...

    I have to say that I was a little grumpy these past few years that you still had to pay Mottishaw grind prices for work done by apprentices.

    ...
    That's not really that uncommon especially if under the teachers supervision (especially if there were a follow-up complaint).

    If you get the grind you expected, then isn't really any different?
    I would agree if the work was supervised closely, but I had to send a needlepoint grind back because the quality just wasn’t there. John did the regrind himself and there was a world of difference.

    Also, if you went by their website, you’d think John still does everything.


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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by maddington View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KBeezie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by maddington View Post
    ...

    I have to say that I was a little grumpy these past few years that you still had to pay Mottishaw grind prices for work done by apprentices.

    ...
    That's not really that uncommon especially if under the teachers supervision (especially if there were a follow-up complaint).

    If you get the grind you expected, then isn't really any different?
    I would agree if the work was supervised closely, but I had to send a needlepoint grind back because the quality just wasn’t there. John did the regrind himself and there was a world of difference.

    Also, if you went by their website, you’d think John still does everything.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    kind of a dilemma right, everybody wants to get a masterpiece, but apprentices only learn with practice.
    On the other side who should take over when old masters retire if apprentices didn’t had the chance to learn enough by practicing a lot and become new masters?

    But this is how learning works with all kind of craftsman business or even in art (thinking about the old masters letting apprentices paint in their paintings)

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Pterodactylus View Post

    kind of a dilemma right, everybody wants to get a masterpiece, but apprentices only learn with practice.
    On the other side who should take over when old masters retire if apprentices didn’t had the chance to learn enough by practicing a lot and become new masters?

    But this is how learning works with all kind of craftsman business or even in art (thinking about the old masters letting apprentices paint in their paintings)
    Exactly. Sure there was some initial excitement thinking Mottishaw did the cursive italic grind on the Century 3776 I purchased from them, and some dismay to learn that the 'staff' usually does the basic grinds. But I was still satisfied with the grind.

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    [QUOTE=maddington;351734][QUOTE=KBeezie;351696]
    Quote Originally Posted by maddington View Post
    ...Also, if you went by their website, you’d think John still does everything.
    Shocking!
    Last edited by 724Seney; January 17th, 2022 at 03:30 AM.

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    At least within the US there are other good nib grinders who can be relied upon to do a good job. Two that immediately spring to my mind are Kirk Speer and Gena Salorino but you have more options than we have here in the UK.
    Last edited by Chrissy; January 17th, 2022 at 10:22 PM.
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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by mark320i View Post
    I am glad for John but unfortunately the pen family has no concept of after sale support and they clearly don't care! They are plain terrible. I try my best not to buy from them and have sold almost all of my ASC collection. Shame I was looking at the DF2 a few days ago.

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    Just amazing! Some folks will take any opportunity to trash ASC / The Pen Family.

    The subject was the retirement (well-deserved) of John Mottishaw. Not your opinion of ASC / The Pen Family. You will need to take up this subject with the likes of SBRE Brown and other well-known pen aficionados. I have to wonder just how many bad experiences you have had with ASC / TPF.

    But that is another post... (sigh).

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisquitlips View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mark320i View Post
    I am glad for John but unfortunately the pen family has no concept of after sale support and they clearly don't care! They are plain terrible. I try my best not to buy from them and have sold almost all of my ASC collection. Shame I was looking at the DF2 a few days ago.

    Sent from my SM-F926U1 using Tapatalk
    Just amazing! Some folks will take any opportunity to trash ASC / The Pen Family.

    The subject was the retirement (well-deserved) of John Mottishaw. Not your opinion of ASC / The Pen Family. You will need to take up this subject with the likes of SBRE Brown and other well-known pen aficionados. I have to wonder just how many bad experiences you have had with ASC / TPF.

    But that is another post... (sigh).
    You are right. And, you are wrong.

    It is true that the OP began the thread to let people know about the announcement from The Pen Family about John's retirement. And, John deserves all the accolades and appreciation he has received both here and elsewhere.

    But it is incorrect to say "Some folks will take any opportunity to trash ASC / The Pen Family." Actually, A LOT of people will take that opportunity. And each one of them has their reason(s) why........

    Given that the announcement offered by the OP came from The Pen Family and the public service announcement was both about John's retirement and that nibs.com belonged to The Pen Family, I think @ mark320i's post was not at all inappropriate.

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    Isn't it a trade's description thing to advertise work by one person only to have it done by someone else?
    Do they say that HE is the one working on it, or that "nibs.com" is working on it as a company?

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_of_Clouds View Post
    How should I know? I was making a general statement about transparency.
    Not sure why it matters in the realm of a service (as it's not like it's artwork resold etc). Many places that offer services especially if using their founder as a figurehead of sort, still have their work done by employees, and sometimes outsourced. So they might not responsible for the grind itself, but they still take responsible for any outcome of it (positive or negative). Much the same way as having a nib "binderdized" but wasn't done by Richard Binder (course to my knowledge, only one person has been approved to perform those services to his qualification to call it that).

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Another pertinent fact that hasn't exactly been advertised is that even the "apprentices" have changed (several times now). Gena left some time ago and is now doing great work on her own, but she was not the last nibmeister change there.

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    Senior Member Lloyd's Avatar
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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Just because the namesake takes responsibility, does ensure the same quality nor that the nib won't require extra trips to and fro. If the buyer hasn't actual handled with by the namesake, they will assume the (possibly) mediocre but acceptable work performed is the best. If it's noticeably bad then they have to spend the time and return shipping to get it worked on again (which isn't always doable - too much tipping demoed by the apprentice). I think that the work should cost less if performed by underlings and be discussed upfront.

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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    I agree wholeheartedly. If I’m going to pay a premium for nibwork (more than Masuyama or Bacas, and they ain’t bad), then I expect it to be the real deal. However, if there was a cheaper version done under the supervision of the master, that would be something I would gladly do, but at a different price and with full knowledge of what’s going on. Here in the pen community, honesty and openness are kind of a thing.

    Again, let’s take nothing away from John’s work. What a pioneer! And my cursive italics from him are magic. My cursive italics from his apprentices are good, too; they’re just not the same.


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    Default Re: John Mottishaw at nibs.com now retired

    Reading all the threads here recently, like people which are not happy with their nib customisation (here and the one regrading FPNibs), the thread about red pens, inspired me to create something.

    I imagined somebody who isn´t really happy with the nib customisation done for his pen and how he might look like (and of course I pictured a red pen )


    Looney Toons - Daffy Duck by Ptero Pterodactylus on DeviantArt

    (Faber Castell Ecco Pigment 0.1, Schmincke Horadam, Faber Castell Polychromos)

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