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Thread: Inserting nib and feed into section

  1. #21
    Senior Member eachan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    The one thing I wold add to all this is to advise to stay away from parallel pliers (or any pliers for this purpose) unless you really know what you're doing. They add the capability to add great pressure to what fingers are capable of and are a great way to damage nibs and split sections. It needs a sensitive touch and that comes with practice.

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  3. #22
    Senior Member Fermata's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Must admit that I know my limits.

    If I had problems with the strength in my fingers and a difficultish repair then I would reach out to a professional.

    One in particular has a pet saying, 'many a good pen has been ruined by a well meaning amateur'.

    There is also the thought that unless a pen repair expert is supported with work then they will shut up shop.
    Last edited by Fermata; October 20th, 2021 at 02:07 PM. Reason: inserting the word 'a'

  4. #23
    Senior Member penwash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by eachan View Post
    The one thing I wold add to all this is to advise to stay away from parallel pliers (or any pliers for this purpose) unless you really know what you're doing. They add the capability to add great pressure to what fingers are capable of and are a great way to damage nibs and split sections. It needs a sensitive touch and that comes with practice.
    I would second this.

    Not because pliers are taboo for this purpose (I've used them), but because a proper use requires just the right amount of force and techniques that is not that easy to execute without practicing on a lot of pens *and* the willingness to accept the risk of the pen (or pen parts) breaking in the process.
    - Will
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by penwash View Post
    I would second this.

    Not because pliers are taboo for this purpose (I've used them), but because a proper use requires just the right amount of force and techniques that is not that easy to execute without practicing on a lot of pens *and* the willingness to accept the risk of the pen (or pen parts) breaking in the process.
    I would simply add, since we are talking about pliers and this was brought into the convo by Ron Zorn: tools in the hands of an amateur (like me) are different from the same tool in the hands of a seasoned professional (like Ron). I've actually watched someone snap a section off a barrel, in two pieces, because they had purchased "Section Pliers" and they figured they were good to go!
    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    How though, do you suppose I got to be a "seasoned professional?"

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    How though, do you suppose I got to be a "seasoned professional?"
    You mean you weren't born with section pliers in one hand, heat gun in the other, and a magnifier on your head? What a relief to your mother.
    In the words of Paul Simon, you can call me Al.

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  12. #27
    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    What a relief to your mother.
    Indeed!

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Good day everyone, I have given up and sent the pen to a professional up North here in the UK. I have spent some time looking at the section with the loupe over a white sheet of paper but could not find any sign of where the nib had been sitting.
    So encouraged by all of your comments I packed it and went to the post office.
    Thank you all for your kind help and practical suggestions as well as for the names of repairers.

    One thing though makes me think, in the factories where they used to make these pens they didn't use white gloves to assemble them, they had machinery and all sorts of tools to carry out repairs.
    So this extreme caution that needs to be used in doing our repairs is somewhat off putting.
    Anyway I kind of know my limits although I always try to push them further and this time I didn't.
    Have a great day
    Marco

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    In the circumstances that seems like a very wise decision Marco. I hope you soon receive it back safely repaired.
    Regards, Chrissy | My Review Blog: inkyfountainpens

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    Good day everyone, I have given up and sent the pen to a professional up North here in the UK. I have spent some time looking at the section with the loupe over a white sheet of paper but could not find any sign of where the nib had been sitting.
    So encouraged by all of your comments I packed it and went to the post office.
    Thank you all for your kind help and practical suggestions as well as for the names of repairers.

    One thing though makes me think, in the factories where they used to make these pens they didn't use white gloves to assemble them, they had machinery and all sorts of tools to carry out repairs.
    So this extreme caution that needs to be used in doing our repairs is somewhat off putting.
    Anyway I kind of know my limits although I always try to push them further and this time I didn't.
    Have a great day
    Marco
    You're right about the factories and the tools but those people were trained before they were let loose on the pens. Same with the repair people. Several British companies offered training courses and sets of tools to work on their pens. The "extreme caution", as you put it. was to try to ensure that you would continue to enjoy your pen.

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  18. #31
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by eachan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    Good day everyone, I have given up and sent the pen to a professional up North here in the UK. I have spent some time looking at the section with the loupe over a white sheet of paper but could not find any sign of where the nib had been sitting.
    So encouraged by all of your comments I packed it and went to the post office.
    Thank you all for your kind help and practical suggestions as well as for the names of repairers.

    One thing though makes me think, in the factories where they used to make these pens they didn't use white gloves to assemble them, they had machinery and all sorts of tools to carry out repairs.
    So this extreme caution that needs to be used in doing our repairs is somewhat off putting.
    Anyway I kind of know my limits although I always try to push them further and this time I didn't.
    Have a great day
    Marco
    You're right about the factories and the tools but those people were trained before they were let loose on the pens. Same with the repair people. Several British companies offered training courses and sets of tools to work on their pens. The "extreme caution", as you put it. was to try to ensure that you would continue to enjoy your pen.
    You might also consider that 50, 60, 70, 100 years may have passed since they were bright and shiny new pens eager to write across the world. When we're 12 months old we may safely fall on the floor and think nothing of it; 80 years later and there's a good chance we'll need a hip replacement. Age is not always kind to pen materials either, and they, too, can get brittle and more vulnerable over time.

    Anyway, hope the repair goes well and you have a pen fit for another few decades.
    In the words of Paul Simon, you can call me Al.

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  20. #32
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    I have to tell you that there are no training schools for pen mechanics, and Youtube videos are often wrong, and in some cases downright dangerous.

    NO pen mechanic alive today went to a school or took classes to learn how to repair pens. They don't exist. We all learned by doing, and from others. We all read what we could and put two and two together.* We still do, and we still develop new techniques, and we still break things. You just have to get to the point where you are more in the "success" category, than "I broke it." The resources available today are far greater than we had 30 years ago.

    Caution is good, and if you are the kind of person who is all thumbs (like my late father in law) hits an electrical wire trying to hang a picture, you may want to hand your pen to someone else. But people will, and I think should if capable, try to repair their own pens. They may need guidance, which is why I am on the pen boards, and why guys like Marshall and Oldfield have written their excellent books. I encourage people to start with low end pens and simple repairs. Don't start on a Sheaffer Masterpiece of MB 149. But basic repairs on basic pens? Sure, try it, but learn as much as you can first.


    *people laugh when I tell them this... All that I had when I started were a few articles in Pen World written by Geoff Berliner, and a photocopy of a copy of a Sheaffer repair manual. I read in the bath, so would find myself reading the repair manual, thinking about and applying what I read to the pens that I had picked up at an antique show that day.
    Last edited by Ron Z; October 20th, 2021 at 06:15 AM.

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  22. #33
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    If you are interested in learning more about pen repair the Writing Equipment Society runs on line courses and also classroom based courses.



    The classes include pen repair at a range of levels and you are provided with pens to work on and repair. They are conducted by the leading pen repair experts.

    Individual training and advice is invaluable and may avoid some of the mistakes that we have all made in taking old 'training pens' to our benches and working out what to do next.

    https://www.wesonline.org.uk/librari...epair-courses/

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  24. #34
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Z View Post
    I have to tell you that there are no training schools for pen mechanics, and Youtube videos are often wrong, and in some cases downright dangerous.

    NO pen mechanic alive today went to a school or took classes to learn how to repair pens. They don't exist. We all learned by doing, and from others. We all read what we could and put two and two together.* We still do, and we still develop new techniques, and we still break things. You just have to get to the point where you are more in the "success" category, than "I broke it." The resources available today are far greater than we had 30 years ago.

    Caution is good, and if you are the kind of person who is all thumbs (like my late father in law) hits an electrical wire trying to hang a picture, you may want to hand your pen to someone else. But people will, and I think should if capable, try to repair their own pens. They may need guidance, which is why I am on the pen boards, and why guys like Marshall and Oldfield have written their excellent books. I encourage people to start with low end pens and simple repairs. Don't start on a Sheaffer Masterpiece of MB 149. But basic repairs on basic pens? Sure, try it, but learn as much as you can first.


    *people laugh when I tell them this... All that I had when I started were a few articles in Pen World written by Geoff Berliner, and a photocopy of a copy of a Sheaffer repair manual. I read in the bath, so would find myself reading the repair manual, thinking about and applying what I read to the pens that I had picked up at an antique show that day.
    Of course my remarks about training and the provision of repair kits were historic, referring to the activities of manufacturers many years ago. I would have thought that would have been evident to anyone.

    Fermata has made you aware of the long-running courses provided by the Writing Equipment Society. Many younger technicians have begun repair and restoration work as a result.

    I'm not one of them. Like you I gradually acquired some expertise over the years. I was quite surprised to see your advice to someone with no experience and bad hands to set to on a valuable pen with pliers. That seemed a recipe for disaster and I tried to introduce a note of caution. I'm pleased to hear that the pen has been sent to an experienced repairer.

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    One thing though makes me think, in the factories where they used to make these pens they didn't use white gloves to assemble them, they had machinery and all sorts of tools to carry out repairs. So this extreme caution that needs to be used in doing our repairs is somewhat off putting.
    Oh, don't be too certain about that (assembly). In the Golden Era of pens, there was still a lot of hainds-on work. I am angry I didn't save a link to a particular article with great photos from the Sheaffer factory in the 30s that included a detailed description of the work that all the employees did by hand on the pens. I am going to do a deep dive search tonight, but I did find one of the image, showing people prepping and testing the nibs on Sheaffer Balance pens. Not by machine.

    (I know this image well, because I found a high-res version and pulled out an enhanced the notes posted on the column - fascinating, and I'll post that later)

    "When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick;
    and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

    ~ Benjamin Franklin

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  28. #36
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    One thing though makes me think, in the factories where they used to make these pens they didn't use white gloves to assemble them, they had machinery and all sorts of tools to carry out repairs.
    So this extreme caution that needs to be used in doing our repairs is somewhat off putting.
    The factories instructed and trained people on how to use those tools. And some of those tools are specifically made to assemble/disassemble the vintage pens we have today.

    You and I (and the rest of the vintage restorers today) have access to neither the instructions, nor the specific tools.

    This is the reason why caution and experience becomes our substitute for those things we don't have.
    - Will
    Unique and restored vintage pens: Redeem Pens

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  30. #37
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    I had an original, complete box of Langs tools a few years ago. The tools were good but not all that different from what I'd accumulated. I sold it to a Langs enthusiast in Australia.

    Others turn up occasionally in eBay or in auction houses.

  31. #38
    Senior Member Ron Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    You and I (and the rest of the vintage restorers today) have access to neither the instructions, nor the specific tools.
    There are many copies of the repair manuals from the manufacturers in circulation. Some may be on the PCA website. As for how to use the tools.... or the tools themselves, some of us have!

    Sheaffer service center fountain pen repair station. Feb. 2008


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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Szanto View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoA64 View Post
    One thing though makes me think, in the factories where they used to make these pens they didn't use white gloves to assemble them, they had machinery and all sorts of tools to carry out repairs. So this extreme caution that needs to be used in doing our repairs is somewhat off putting.
    Oh, don't be too certain about that (assembly). In the Golden Era of pens, there was still a lot of hainds-on work. I am angry I didn't save a link to a particular article with great photos from the Sheaffer factory in the 30s that included a detailed description of the work that all the employees did by hand on the pens. I am going to do a deep dive search tonight, but I did find one of the image, showing people prepping and testing the nibs on Sheaffer Balance pens. Not by machine.

    (I know this image well, because I found a high-res version and pulled out an enhanced the notes posted on the column - fascinating, and I'll post that later)


    A remarkable photograph, both technically for its depth of field and shooting into the light but also and especially for the subject matter,

    If those people only knew that their image and work would still be looked at and thought about 70+ years later.
    Last edited by Fermata; October 21st, 2021 at 01:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Inserting nib and feed into section

    Quote Originally Posted by Fermata View Post
    A remarkable photograph, both technically for its depth of field and shooting into the light but also and especially for the subject matter,

    If those people only knew that their image and work would still be looked at and thought about 70+ years later.
    Agreed. I would guess that large format film was used, which contributes to the amount of details and the extremely wide dynamic range. The rest is the photographer's skill and technique, and then the darkroom printer's.

    Sorry, Fermata's observation just triggered a lot of fond memories shooting with film.

    Back to the topic!
    - Will
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