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Thread: Student Loans??

  1. #21
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    “…[T]he universities, they should be responsible for defaulted student loan debt. If you produce somebody that can't pay it back, that's on you."

    "I don't want ANYONE to have to be deep in debt just to get a college degree!"

    DeSantis in South Carolina. He’s got a point.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

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    Default Re: Student Loans??


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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    I've been around higher ed my entire professional life, part of that time at BigState U and now at little community college. My time at BigState was half as a grad student(which almost feels like a staff roll at least in the hard sciences abd generally will also have teaching responsibilities) and half that time as support staff for teaching and research plus occasional adjunct work. I'm now full time faculty.

    At least at the big schools and not so big private schools, I see higher ed as a fundamentally broken system. Student loans unfortunately are part of that problem and from my perspective a big part of the problem, as they are basically printing money for the schools who receive them. They have basically let schools print money, and tuition has been outpacing inflation dramatically for years now.

    The question, then, is where is all of that money going? One would think that it would translate to higher salaries for faculty and staff, but generally it doesn't. What it has done is increase administrative bloat an in general salaries of big high level administrators. There are jokes among faculty(not really at my school, but at other places) about how every time you turn around they've created a new associate dean position or some other administrative position. Also, every campus you visit(or at least every 4 year campus) will likely have multiple construction projects going on at a time, but rarely are they things that directly benefit the academic mission of the school. No longer is a tile floored room with two beds, two dressers, and two desks good enough for students. Now they need a full suite with a kitchen, and of course you'd better have a pool on the roof of the building too(seriously-at the big state school where I worked, one of the newest dorms had that). A dining hall with a couple of tasty and nutritious but basic options isn't good enough-now you need full gourmet dining and 20 different choices. No longer is a basic gym for students to lift weights, run on a treadmill, or play a pickup basketball game good enough-now they need a facility rivaling an Olympic training center.

    When they do build a new academic building, they never actually bother to talk to the people who will be using the teaching spaces about what they need to make it functional, but instead it's just show off how fancy it is and of course have the obligatory Starbucks on every floor. They did build a new building in my last year or two at my previous school, but unfortunately they spent too much on the student lounges to actually install lab benches that didn't look like crap after a semester of use(unlike our 40 year old ones in the Chemistry building that mostly still looked brand new) and of course no one uses whiteboards anymore so why bother installing them in the classrooms?

    Where am I going with all of this rambling? What schools are selling now is not the education but the "experience." They want students to think they're attending a resort for 4 years and not a place to get an education. Unfortunately too for those of us on the ground, it's increasingly led to students thinking of themselves as customers who "paid for" a certain grade in the course, and the professors job is to give them the grade they paid for. A professor's job should be to facilitate the students' learning and understanding of the material, assess that understanding fairly, and then assign a grade based on what that assessment reflects. Now, students think just putting forth the effort(coming to class, doing the assignments) should "earn" them an A. It's an even more toxic environment when you try to incorporate pedagogical frameworks like active learning into the material, as too many students perceive even some of the more benign efforts at doing this as "I'm paying to teach myself this material".

    Am I in favor of loan forgiveness? Considering that I'm a year and a half of away from being eligible for PSLF, and fully intend to use it, I can't exactly say I'm opposed to it.

    With that said, I was NOT in favor of this round proposed loan forgiveness. It's not the principle of it, but I took issue with the execution. Wiping out $10K(or $20K) fixed or helped a lot of people who had graduated, but forgiveness in isolation to me is not a solution. Any loan discharge needs to be part of a bro. ader reform of how the entire higher education funding lending and funding system works, as $10K in forgiveness now did absolutely nothing to address the borrowers still taking out loans or entering college. I don't know what the fix looks like, but the fact that loan forgiveness even needs to be a topic of discussion tells me that the problem is far bigger than the loans themselves. Don't just discharge current loans-keep the current round of borrowers from getting in the situation where we'll be having this same conversation in 5, 10, 20 years...

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    It is in the world's best interest to have an educated citizenry.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    Forgiving student loans is not fair. People have to be responsible for what they agree to.

    I owned a logistics business, and like many entrepreneurs, I had loans to pay off too. No one forgave a cent of my debt. In 2021, I faced bankruptcy, and let me tell you, no creditor was lining up to reduce my amounts owed. But instead of waiting for a bailout, I took responsibility, worked hard, and sought assistance where I could.

    I worked with a lawyer from the bankruptcy law center, which helped me to become debt-free by negotiating the debts with my creditors and also helped me manage my finances. Everyone's situation is unique, but I believe in taking ownership of one's financial responsibilities, just as I did with my business.
    Last edited by haroldawerben; September 19th, 2023 at 06:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    The availability of student loans enabled universities to raise tuition. Americans have a stake in making a college education available to more than just those who can afford to pay cash or those with the talent to excel academically or athletically.

    Starting a business is different from obtaining an education.
    “He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    The availability of student loans enabled universities to raise tuition. Americans have a stake in making a college education available to more than just those who can afford to pay cash or those with the talent to excel academically or athletically.

    Starting a business is different from obtaining an education.
    Very true.
    When you start a business you actually learn a lot of really valuable things. And, gain many lifelong skills.
    Unlike many of majors currently offered by four year colleges and universities. Total worthless bullshit. They accomplish nothing but making someone woke and feeling entitled.

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    The issue of student loan debt is a complex one. It's great to see people advocating for more accessible education. If you ever have questions or concerns about student loans, or if you're looking for financial advice on any other topic, consider reaching out to a Mortgage Broker in Wolverhampton. They can provide valuable insights on various financial matters. Let's hope for a future where education is more affordable for everyone!
    Last edited by MaxDailies; November 4th, 2023 at 02:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    Wisconsin passes bill to end race, gender, ethnicity in financial aid decisions:

    https://apnews.com/article/universit...475b56733ea398

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
    The availability of student loans enabled universities to raise tuition. Americans have a stake in making a college education available to more than just those who can afford to pay cash or those with the talent to excel academically or athletically.

    Starting a business is different from obtaining an education.
    And raising tuition allowed for the hiring of waves of administrators and non-academic programs.
    The concept of fiscal responsibility at the college level is minimized by reliance on funding from legislatures which also specialize in spending other people’s money.

  11. #31
    Senior Member dneal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    They never tell those poor children that the only way to escape those loans is to pay them back or die.

    They are "guaranteed" only in that one may not discharge them through bankruptcy proceedings. The interest will happily compound into the principle.

    How generous the politicians were with these "federally guaranteed" programs.
    "A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged."

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    It's worth noting that these "federally guaranteed" programs were intended to make education accessible, but they can have lasting financial consequences. As individuals navigate their post-graduation lives, managing student loan debt can be a challenging task.

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    Hey, @dneal. You're absolutely right, the world of student loans can be overwhelming and unforgiving. It's essential for students to understand the long-term commitment they're making when taking out these loans. Unfortunately, bankruptcy won't wipe them away, and interest can indeed add up significantly.
    Speaking of financial matters, if you're in Swansea and considering a mortgage, it's wise to seek professional guidance. A Mortgage Broker in Swansea can help you navigate the complexities and find the best mortgage options tailored to your needs.
    Last edited by Doomax; December 12th, 2023 at 06:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Student Loans??

    Embark on a journey to unravel the complexities of the Pay As You Earn (PAYE) Plan with this comprehensive guide. Gain clarity on the eligibility criteria and understand the array of benefits offered by this income-driven repayment option. Simplify the process of applying for student loan forgiveness with our comprehensive guide and streamlined application assistance. Learn who qualifies for the PAYE Plan and how it can potentially reduce your monthly loan payments based on your income. Explore the unique features of the PAYE Plan, including its repayment terms and forgiveness provisions. By demystifying the PAYE Plan, you'll gain valuable insights into managing your student loan debt effectively and achieving financial stability.

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